Words that Calvinists IGNORE

[justsurfing]

Well, chestertonrules,

You try to say, "My church is better than your church."

Well, can your Dad beat up my Dad??

(trick question).

Grace and peace.

 

[nobdysfool]

God can use even our mistakes to his end.

We, however, are responsible for our actions.

We can choose to accept or reject God's grace.

God designed us this way.

That is true to a point, but God does not ordain our lives based on what He foresees us as doing, He ordains our lives based on His Will, and His Purpose. Neal has rightly pointed out that if God is said to ordain our lives based on what He foresees us doing, then ultimately, it is we who have ordained our lives, and God is just ensuring that we have our way. That is not true, it is not biblical, and there is no support in the Word of God for such a notion.

God ordains our lives according to His Purpose, in such a way that we are responsible for our actions. Those who cannot grasp this are those who exalt their supposed free will over God, and reduce Him to a rubber stamp.

 

[heymikey80]

His foreknowledge opens up everything to Him.

"A man devises his way but God orders his steps." God foreknows all our ways and intent of our hearts and orders up our steps accordingly. Some unto eternal life, others to eternal damnation. Predestination is all wrapped up in that.

Does anyone else find it odd that God would require foreknowledge to determine what steps people will take, and then God orders those steps via foreknowledge?

If the order of our steps changes our path, then what is it God foreknows about us that changes the path He creates for us?

Does the all-powerful God of the Universe, the One Who made everything out of nothing -- certainly our wills, even our wills -- need to check into what our decisions will be as if He didn't know us entirely?

And if God doesn't really change based on what He foreknows, but knew it would be so based on His Own design, then how's that any different from Calvinism? Predestination is predesignation.

 

[chestertonrules]

That is true to a point, but God does not ordain our lives based on what He foresees us as doing, He ordains our lives based on His Will, and His Purpose. Neal has rightly pointed out that if God is said to ordain our lives based on what He foresees us doing, then ultimately, it is we who have ordained our lives, and God is just ensuring that we have our way. That is not true, it is not biblical, and there is no support in the Word of God for such a notion.

God ordains our lives according to His Purpose, in such a way that we are responsible for our actions. Those who cannot grasp this are those who exalt their supposed free will over God, and reduce Him to a rubber stamp.

God's purpose is to create free creatures who will freely choose to follow him.

That was his plan. We are responsible for our actions because that is the way our sovereign Lord willed it to be.

Matthew 7
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!


21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[chestertonrules]

Well, chestertonrules,

You try to say, "My church is better than your church."

Well, can your Dad beat up my Dad??

(trick question).

Grace and peace.

Technically, Catholics believe that all Christians subsist within the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, not all are in full communion.

We have the same father, but some of us dropped out of school and might end up in jail!

 

[Ormly]

God's purpose is to create free creatures who will freely choose to follow him.

That was his plan. We are responsible for our actions because that is the way our sovereign Lord willed it to be.

Matthew 7
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!


21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Absolutely Chet!

However, fools who don't care to read for understanding and insist we believe our righteousness can save us continually need to be reminded that we don't believe that. Only the righteousness of Jesus Christ can save anyone. That is why His Blood was shed. Unfortunately this post will be ignored in any future comment by THAT foolish group who only wish name call and continue to falsely accuse.

 

[chestertonrules]

Absolutely Chet!

However, fools who don't care to read for understanding and insist we believe our righteousness can save us continually need to be reminded that we don't believe that. Only the righteousness of Jesus Christ can save anyone. That is why His Blood was shed. Unfortunately this post will be ignored in any future comment by THAT foolish group who only wish name call and continue to falsely accuse.

We must be converted by the grace of Christ to the good works prepared for us.

We must access his grace and DO good works. We must bear fruit.

We can't do it without him, but with God, all things are possible.

We will be judged for our actions.

 

[nobdysfool]

God's purpose is to create free creatures who will freely choose to follow him.

That was his plan. We are responsible for our actions because that is the way our sovereign Lord willed it to be.

Matthew 7
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!


21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Which does not address what I actually said at all. Neither does the scripture you quoted underscore what you said. I can understand that you cannot address what I said directly, or you would have. But don't blow smoke and try to make others think that you have.

 

[Ormly]

We must be converted by the grace of Christ to the good works prepared for us.

We must access his grace and DO good works. We must bear fruit.

We can't do it without him, but with God, all things are possible.

We will be judged for our actions.

amen!

 

[nill]

chestertonrules:
We must be converted by the grace of Christ to the good works prepared for us.

We must access his grace and DO good works. We must bear fruit.

We can't do it without him, but with God, all things are possible.

We will be judged for our actions.​

Calvinism is in full agreement, so I don't know what you think you're arguing against. It's just another example that proves that you don't know what Calvinism teaches. Here's a quick hint: if you're railing against what you suppose Calvinism is, and a dozen or so Calvinists tell you over something like a hundred times that you're mistaken, you might actually be wrong about Calvinism! Anyway, for the record, allow me to repeat what I said before:

Neal:
What Calvinism denies is that we must do good works in order to become saved. That's, in effect, saying that Christ's work was not enough to save a person, that we must add more to "Christ alone" being our savior. (That is, you preach, "Christ alone is the savior of sinners + our works = salvation," which is simultaneously horrific and utterly arrogant.) Actual saving is the Holy Spirit's job, not ours. However, Calvinism does not deny and never has denied that good works are necessary after we have become saved. If you think Calvinism denies that, you are truly off your rocker.​

 

[oworm]

chestertonrules:
We must be converted by the grace of Christ to the good works prepared for us.

We must access his grace and DO good works. We must bear fruit.

We can't do it without him, but with God, all things are possible.

We will be judged for our actions.
​

Calvinism is in full agreement, so I don't know what you think you're arguing against. It's just another example that proves that you don't know what Calvinism teaches. Here's a quick hint: if you're railing against what you suppose Calvinism is, and a dozen or so Calvinists tell you over something like a hundred times that you're mistaken, you might actually be wrong about Calvinism! Anyway, for the record, allow me to repeat what I said before:

Neal:
What Calvinism denies is that we must do good works in order to become saved. That's, in effect, saying that Christ's work was not enough to save a person, that we must add more to "Christ alone" being our savior. (That is, you preach, "Christ alone is the savior of sins + our works = salvation," which is simultaneously horrific and utterly arrogant.) Actual saving is the Holy Spirit's job, not ours. However, Calvinism does not deny and never has denied that good works are necessary after we have become saved. If you think Calvinism denies that, you are truly off your rocker.
​

And to comment on that accurate statement in a succint way:

Works are the evidence of salvation, not the cause!

 

[nobdysfool]

And to comment on that accurate stement in a succint way:

Works are the evidence of salvation, not the cause!

Amen! A point which it seems the anti-Calvinists do not get, even when we say it point-blank. They still accuse us of all sorts of ridiculous things, and spend all their time trying to shout Calvinists down, even when we agree with something that they have (even accidentally) said correctly.

 

[beloved57]

God's purpose is to create free creatures who will freely choose to follow him.

Nothing can be further from the truth..

Gods primary purpose for everything was to bring Glory to Himself via the person and work of Jesus christ as Saviour of His people..

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In light of that, He ordained sin into the world..

 

[chestertonrules]

Nothing can be further from the truth..

Gods primary purpose for everything was to bring Glory to Himself via the person and work of Jesus christ as Saviour of His people..

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In light of that, He ordained sin into the world..

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

 

[beloved57]

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

You have avoided a passage that has showed you that The redemptive puurpose of christ was Gods eternal purpose, if thats true, there had to be sin to redeem from..

 

[chestertonrules]

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
​

You have avoided a passage that has showed you that The redemptive puurpose of christ was Gods eternal purpose, if thats true, there had to be sin to redeem from..

I post scripture. This scripture exposes the flaws of Calvinist dogma.

You avoid commenting and refer me to Calvinist dogma.

How does that make you feel?

 

[bbbbbbb]

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
​

You have avoided a passage that has showed you that The redemptive puurpose of christ was Gods eternal purpose, if thats true, there had to be sin to redeem from..

I post scripture. This scripture exposes the flaws of Calvinist dogma.

You avoid commenting and refer me to Calvinist dogma.

How does that make you feel?

Although my feelings are entirely insignificant, this does leave me wondering why I received such a weak and feeble response when I posted Ephesians 1:3-12. When you choose to address my earlier post I shall respond to your biblical citations.

 

[chestertonrules]

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
​

You have avoided a passage that has showed you that The redemptive puurpose of christ was Gods eternal purpose, if thats true, there had to be sin to redeem from..


Although my feelings are entirely insignificant, this does leave me wondering why I received such a weak and feeble response when I posted Ephesians 1:3-12. When you choose to address my earlier post I shall respond to your biblical citations.

Your post was irrelevant:

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In light of that, He ordained sin into the world..


And what purpose is that? If you are trying to say that God's purspose is to ordain sin in the world then you have some research to do!

Seriously, make your point if you have one.

 

[beloved57]

God's purpose:

Acts 17

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
​

You have avoided a passage that has showed you that The redemptive puurpose of christ was Gods eternal purpose, if thats true, there had to be sin to redeem from..

I post scripture. This scripture exposes the flaws of Calvinist dogma.

You avoid commenting and refer me to Calvinist dogma.

How does that make you feel?

It makes me fell like you dont understand salvation lol..

 

[beloved57]

Your post was irrelevant:

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In light of that, He ordained sin into the world..


And what purpose is that? If you are trying to say that God's purspose is to ordain sin in the world then you have some research to do!

Seriously, make your point if you have one.

lol..The purpose was eternal, and it also involved the salvation of the gentiles...

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

and eph 3:

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Its there as plain as day, the purpose of creation was centered in a redemptive purpose, now that entailed sin..The gospel is the good news of christ saving His people from sin..

Now if redemption of the gentiles is the mystery regarding the eternal purpose Of christ, then there had to be sin committed to align with the purpose..