Topless Danes

[LJSGM]

As to the base question. You argument as if it was a global truth that bare breasts are sexual in all contexts, this just isn't true.

Yes, but you can't predict who will find them sexual and who won't, so it's a moot point.

Lets say that I don't find a man's penis to be sexual, doesn't that mean that he can parade it around on the beach? No? Why is that? Because the majority of people do think it's sexual and some will or might be aroused by it.

Serously though, I don't know why you people want to make your bodies non-sexual to men in the first place. It's a great blessing in the marriage bed to have privates and to be fascinated by them, ect. I like the fact that my husband finds my breast sexual, and because of that, he also would find other women's breasts sexual as well if he saw them. You exchange one for the other.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Actually I probably "could" go to work or Church in my bathingsuit based on modest attire, with
the same accessories I would walk around in public in while not in the water. However, I would
probably look a little silly.

Neither is Amsterdam huh? Puleeeze.

Trust me, even in modern " civilized cultures" that are generally depraved and have no regard
for God or His ways, there are still people who do among them and see that as indecent.

Sexual "undertones" on the commercials, tv and movies? THAT is an absolute understatement as it is nothing
less than soft porn to XX. Which also validates what I said above. As the US has become quite reprobate in
its ways towards God, and has become darkened and depraved as a result in many ways, yet there are A LOT
of people as you can see right here in this forum that absolutely do not approve and can understand why the
Muslims think we are a nation of infidels, by what they see over the airwaves here in America.

If you knew what Paul was talking about, and you know I am married, then you will also
know that my husband is my covering not to mention my hair is down past the middle
of my back and Biblically is my crown of glory provided to me by the Lord.

So, none of your rhetoric changes anything, not for those who do not look to
the world for instruction and guidance in the things of the Lord.
God said, "be ye holy for I am holy." We are called up higher as ensamples,
as living sacrifices, as ambassadors and ambassadresses of the Lord.

What the world does is their choice. We do not have to approve, nor do we have to
follow along. We, are called as a peculiar people, separated from the world
and unto the Lord by the blood of Christ. We are not of the world, the ways of the world do not
dictate to us. We are sanctified and set apart, called out of the world and unto God.
If you claim to be washed in the Blood of the Lamb, then choose this day whom you will serve.

What highly sexual cultures are you talking about here? I can assure you that contrary to the old myth, scandinavia isn't that sexual as you might expect. The fact is that sex seems to play a much larger role in the public life in USA than it does in for exaple Sweden. With this I mean a sexual undertone that plays a important role in everything from commersials to music and movies and different products. Maybe this focus on nudity in USA is the result from a false modesty that makes nudity such a big thing.



Do you go to church, school or work in a swimsuite?


As to the base question. You argument as if it was a global truth that bare breasts are sexual in all contexts, this just isn't true. If you cannot understand this then it must be asumed that this is the result of severe uninterest for the world around you.

When Paul talked about decent clothing he meant that you should wear and behave in a way that isn't provocative and sexual to the people around you, and if bare breasts qualifies to this then it is decent, what is decent depends on culture and context. One hundred years ago decent clothing meant for exaple that you couldn't show your bare ancles. Today and in the society you live in bare ancle hardly is seen as indecent and sexually provocative, right? When the Bible was written decent clothing included that a woman covers her head, but you don't always wear a hat or veil, do you?

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

Muslims may think we're infidels, but I'm pretty sure when God said let women dress modestly he didn't mean this

And yeah some women choose this, and enjoy it, however a majority of women find this to be oppresive, a sign of a male dominated society that has gone horribly wrong.

 

[LJSGM]

Should we go to the other extreme then?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Of all that I said, a singular sentence I made about
the Muslims thinking we are a nation of infidels because of what
they see on American TV and how that is understandable with the soft porn
to XX on commercials etc is plucked out to respond to?

LOL.

I have in a previous post already pointed out that this type of dress that you picture here, is the polar
extreme of what is being presented in this thread as being acceptable, which is the opposite extreme.
They are both extremist. So, the case you attempted to make out of my sentence is null/void, as
I already agree with you that the Muslim form of dress is extreme. I guess where we might differ is
whether or not women should walk around with their boobs and other various private parts,
hanging out.

Muslims may think we're infidels, but I'm pretty sure when God said let women dress modestly he didn't mean this

And yeah some women choose this, and enjoy it, however a majority of women find this to be oppresive, a sign of a male dominated society that has gone horribly wrong.

 

[Kai]

The vast majority of women in the Middle East do not wear burqas (which cover the entire body), which is a rule only required of women by a certain extremist ethnic group in Afghanistan. Why hasn't anyone pointed this out?

Most women in the Middle East wear hijabs or just veils and headscarfs, so stop making it seem like it's more extreme that it really is.

 

[Nadiine]

The vast majority of women in the Middle East do not wear burqas (which cover the entire body), which is a rule only required of women by a certain extremist ethnic group in Afghanistan. Why hasn't anyone pointed this out?

Most women in the Middle East wear hijabs or just veils and headscarfs, so stop making it seem like it's more extreme that it really is.

good point... and that would be becuz I didn't know that?
Even tho I didn't think burqa's had much to do w/ toplessness as far as this topic goes.
Burqa's deal with how much to cover, this one deals with how much to uncover towards nudity instead of "modesty". That's how I view it anyways.

 

[D'Ann]

The vast majority of women in the Middle East do not wear burqas (which cover the entire body), which is a rule only required of women by a certain extremist ethnic group in Afghanistan. Why hasn't anyone pointed this out?

Most women in the Middle East wear hijabs or just veils and headscarfs, so stop making it seem like it's more extreme that it really is.

I raise up my hand.... ummmm... for me personally, I didn't know this. Thanks for the heads up. It's good to learn new things.

I'm not into covering up the body completely... I just think that all of us are beautiful because we are made in the image of God... our bodies are beautiful. They may not be perfect as we would like them to be because of what the secular world tells us, but whatever shape our bodies are in, they are beautiful because God made them. Because of their beauty, we should use wisdom and common sense in what we wear.

What we wear does somewhat represent who we are inside our head and heart. What we feel about ourselves, what we feel about where we live and what we believe... we do convey that somewhat in some way by what we wear or don't wear.

My question which has not been answered yet is...

Can anyone see Mary or Martha or Esther or your own pastor's wife naked with their boobs showing? Imagine someone who you look up to as a holy woman of God, can you imagine her wearing something that is so tight that every curve in her body is showing? Can you imagine her not wearing anything in public? Can you imagine your own mom or grandma not wearing clothes with their boobs showing?

I understand how important it is as a woman to wear something beautiful and that compliments the beautiful assets that God has blessed us with... but shouldn't we do this in a subtle and nice way... sometimes showing less is more attractive in the right way, then showing a lot.

As far as nudity causing sexual feelings... I'm not a guy and I can't answer for a guy. I imagine for some men, when they see a naked woman or women, some probably are turned on and thus lust may and does come into play and the fantasy begins.... etc.

I can't help but wonder what man wouldn't find a beautiful naked woman unattractive unless the man wasn't attracted to women in the first place...

Oh well... I don't know if this is helpful or not.

God's Peace

 

[Nadiine]

I'd also note that they think we're infidels becuz

WE DON'T WORSHIP ALLAH. first and foremost.

They consider us infidels also becuz we are immoral - it isn't just the topless stuff, it's rampant pornography & open vulgarity like Howard Stern's radio program etc., + gambling, rave clubs for kids, the
skimpy clothing worn by girls in society, our dysfunctional tv reality shows, the murder, theft, etc. etc.
In this culture, the more shocking and filthy, the more popular they will become.

It's all the above - but sex outside wedlock and adultery are the same laws God has for us as well; so they aren't too "off the mark" to consider people "in sin" if that's the majority of what they observe about our culture.

 

[lucyclaire]

Women in Demark have gained the right to go topless in public pools.

Why should this be an issue? Shouldn't women have the right to go topless anywhere that men can go topless?

Topless bathing on beaches, lakesides or outdoor pools is very, very normal across Europe. Denmark has nudist beaches too. It is only an issue to people that are unused to seeing naked breasts or possibly teenage boys who are going to be turned on by Danish women if the are fully dress because they are blonde and beautiful.
I have done it in Spain, Italy and France, the only reason to think it was immodest is if I was the only one on the beach or I was so special that the men would rather look at me that the 20 year blonde from Sweden.
Most men on the beaches are adults who can control themselves.
I am far more likely to be noticed if I was wearing one of those modesty bathing suits and for the wrong reasons.

 

[lucyclaire]

Psychology is actually our friend in this area.
We know that men are visually stimulated. A mans can become sexually aroused even from seeing certain shapes even tho no real woman or photo of a woman is actually being seen.
I spent some time in school learning just what sorts of ways to draw a mans eyes to an advertisement using this sort of thing.
One of the reasons I got away from that area of advertising and graphics.



Eventually this new generation will become a new Sodom.
It is inevitable...

Yet men in Denmark, France, Germany, Britain, Italy etc are more than capable of sharing a beach or outdoor pool with topless women and girls, without visiable signs of arousal or the need to stare.One piece swimsuits will get more attention because it, to cover up a t-shirt or sarong is fine with bikini bottoms. I personally will wear a bikini top is I swim to prevent burning. The only people that are going to be aroused by topless women at the pool or beach are men that haven't seen bare breasts before. If that is a problem for you do us a big favour don't come to Europe between April and October, you'll have a heart attack, those of who live here will not be troubled.
This law is about public pools, it is not about being topless in the streets of Denmark, it is about being able to swim as they do in outdoor pools and on beaches. I remember being in Italy with large groups of Danes, it is so natural to go topless most have never sunbathed anyother way including from childhood to adulthood. The only reason people cover up is to prevent sun damage to the skin.

 

[LJSGM]

Yet men in Denmark, France, Germany, Britain, Italy etc are more than capable of sharing a beach or outdoor pool with topless women and girls, without visiable signs of arousal or the need to stare.One piece swimsuits will get more attention because it, to cover up a t-shirt or sarong is fine with bikini bottoms. I personally will wear a bikini top is I swim to prevent burning. The only people that are going to be aroused by topless women at the pool or beach are men that haven't seen bare breasts before. If that is a problem for you do us a big favour don't come to Europe between April and October, you'll have a heart attack, those of who live here will not be troubled.
This law is about public pools, it is not about being topless in the streets of Denmark, it is about being able to swim as they do in outdoor pools and on beaches. I remember being in Italy with large groups of Danes, it is so natural to go topless most have never sunbathed anyother way including from childhood to adulthood. The only reason people cover up is to prevent sun damage to the skin.

What's your motivation in going topless?

 

[karisma]

What's your motivation in going topless?

I imagine women want to go topless for the same reasons men want to go topless: enjoy the feeling of sun on your skin, comfort, etc.

 

[Nadiine]

Yet men in Denmark, France, Germany, Britain, Italy etc are more than capable of sharing a beach or outdoor pool with topless women and girls, without visiable signs of arousal or the need to stare.One piece swimsuits will get more attention because it, to cover up a t-shirt or sarong is fine with bikini bottoms. I personally will wear a bikini top is I swim to prevent burning. The only people that are going to be aroused by topless women at the pool or beach are men that haven't seen bare breasts before. If that is a problem for you do us a big favour don't come to Europe between April and October, you'll have a heart attack, those of who live here will not be troubled.
This law is about public pools, it is not about being topless in the streets of Denmark, it is about being able to swim as they do in outdoor pools and on beaches. I remember being in Italy with large groups of Danes, it is so natural to go topless most have never sunbathed anyother way including from childhood to adulthood. The only reason people cover up is to prevent sun damage to the skin.

Well again, what others do in other cultures does NOT make it "RIGHT", does it?
Unless street drugs become "right" becuz Amsterdam legalizes them & it "works for them" over there....
Nowhere in my bible does God tell me to "watch other cultures around you and copy what they do; just follow their lead".

The list goes on with what cultures do - Christians follow scripture, not popular wordly trends. I would suppose that the Israelites thought it was silly that they couldn't get tattoo's like the other women in other cities nearby... what was so 'harmful' about that?
God didn't want them identifying with the world around them to follow them.

Toplessness is not "Modesty"; it's not even modest for males as a matter of fact.
Modesty is to be clothed in a manner that isn't drawing attn. to the body itself - as we've said earlier, even people wearing burlap sacks can be alluring with body gestures, eye contact, speech/sexual inuendo, etc.

I don't care if some or most of those men don't look at the women that way, you cannot account for every man on every beach everywhere NOT paying att. to her 1/2 nude body.
(and since when does men not being aroused at women's exposed boobs somehow make it "modest" or godly??? is that our litmust test now for right & wrong now? What we OBSERVE?
"Nothing "bad" happens that we can see, so why isn't it ok"?).

She does not know her whole audience (especially pubescant boys who we know it doesn't take much to get them thinking about sex).
And if the men aren't aroused, then that pretty much tells me that they've gotten SO accustomed to open nudity, that they're desensitized to normal arousal - and just like pornography, it takes more and more graphic visualization for stimulation.
Nudity is still wrong and maybe they SHOULD be turned on, but the toplessness is dulling their sensitivity.

Lastly, laying out today is beyond dangerous - if these sunworshippers are so fond of stripping in the sun, they can enjoy their leatherized skin in the near future and I hope they're getting regular check ups at the dermatologist for skin melanoma's.

 

[Nadiine]

I imagine women want to go topless for the same reasons men want to go topless: enjoy the feeling of sun on your skin, comfort, etc.

Well, I'd like to be able to do alot of things that God tells me I can't....
I call it obedience.

But who can't "feel the sun on their skin" in a bikini top? There's a few strings & 2 tiny pieces of cloth covering the "necessary" parts of the boobs.

 

[karisma]

Well again, what others do in other cultures does NOT make it "RIGHT", does it?
Unless street drugs become "right" becuz Amsterdam legalizes them & it "works for them" over there....
Nowhere in my bible does God tell me to "watch other cultures around you and copy what they do; just follow their lead".

This thread isn't about drugs.

The list goes on with what cultures do - Christians follow scripture, not popular wordly trends. I would suppose that the Israelites thought it was silly that they couldn't get tattoo's like the other women in other cities nearby... what was so 'harmful' about that?

God didn't want them identifying with the world around them to follow them.

Or tattoos.

Toplessness is not "Modesty"; it's not even modest for males as a matter of fact.

Modesty is to be clothed in a manner that isn't drawing attn. to the body itself - as we've said earlier, even people wearing burlap sacks can be alluring with body gestures, eye contact, speech/sexual inuendo, etc.

And what is attention drawing is culturally based. A woman wearing shorts and a t-shirt in Iran would be attention drawing. Not so much in the US.

I don't care if some or most of those men don't look at the women that way, you cannot account for every man on every beach everywhere NOT paying att. to her 1/2 nude body.

(and since when does men not being aroused at women's exposed boobs somehow make it "modest" or godly??? is that our litmust test now for right & wrong now? What we OBSERVE?
"Nothing "bad" happens that we can see, so why isn't it ok"?).

She does not know her whole audience (especially pubescant boys who we know it doesn't take much to get them thinking about sex).
And if the men aren't aroused, then that pretty much tells me that they've gotten SO accustomed to open nudity, that they're desensitized to normal arousal - and just like pornography, it takes more and more graphic visualization for stimulation.
Nudity is still wrong and maybe they SHOULD be turned on, but the toplessness is dulling their sensitivity.

So now women have to be fully dressed in case some pervert out there is getting his jollies looking at boobies? Are you joking? Just like the others said, should all women have to wear burkas because one man out there might get arroused by seeing an ankle? Because that really is what it comes down to. It's already been demonstrated that in countries where this is common, it is not a problem for men. Breasts have only become sexual because they are taboo to be seen in public.

Lastly, laying out today is beyond dangerous - if these sunworshippers are so fond of stripping in the sun, they can enjoy their leatherized skin in the near future and I hope they're getting regular check ups at the dermatologist for skin melanoma's

.

Some sun is good for you. Vit D and all that.

 

[karisma]

Well, I'd like to be able to do alot of things that God tells me I can't....
I call it obedience.

But who can't "feel the sun on their skin" in a bikini top? There's a few strings & 2 tiny pieces of cloth covering the "necessary" parts of the boobs.

So why do men like to be topless?

Besides, comfort is also an issue.

 

[catlover]

IS there a higher incidence of skin cancers amoung THe Europeans?

I heard The Europeans are not uptight about nudity so there are more topless beaches etc...so do they have a higher incidence of skin cancer?

 

[karisma]

But who can't "feel the sun on their skin" in a bikini top? There's a few strings & 2 tiny pieces of cloth covering the "necessary" parts of the boobs.

I also think this is very revealing. It's true. Women already can expose their breast in public beaches... just not the nipple. The "necessary part." Is that really modest? I mean, we are already 9/10 of the way there. Why is it so horrible to expose the female nipple?

 

[catlover]

So why do men like to be topless?

Besides, comfort is also an issue.

Some men should be topless-others need to keep their shirt on...






j/k