Topless Danes

[Nadiine]

Two things: Why is it that when I'm desensitized to nudity it's because I'm an unrepentant sinner or whatever was said, but a male gynecologist is desensitized to it it's a gift from God? That doesn't make sense. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the entire point is: If you are desensitized, you do not think lust upon seeing someone naked simply because they are naked.

On this silly age/wisdom debate: Didn't Jesus start preaching at the tender age of twelve? You know, when his parents accidentally left him behind and had to go back and get him and found him sitting and preaching to a bunch of adults who marveled at his wisdom? I can find a verse if no one knows what I'm talking about.

Celibacy is a gift from God too.

And yes, Doctors ARE gifted to do their jobs. If a male gyno. IS turned on by his patients, then he's in the wrong field and needs to get out of it.

The fact that YOU aren't turned on by a female body might be another thread topic... but why does your densitization make toplessness right?
You are of a minority, not a majority in your difference.

It doesn't mean the public majority should go topless becuz a certain number could care less. I CARE - other women probly care if their husbands are seeing 1/2 naked women when they go places.
I take offense to it and it can stumble alot of people & cause other problems in marriages/relationships.

 

[drstevej]

Here's a top for any topless Danes ya run into at the pool.

Is Indecent Doggie Bad?

 

[catlover]

Here's a top for any topless Danes ya run into at the pool.

Those are big dogs-they look as large as donkeys...I would buy one but they only live 7 years.

 

[lucyclaire]

What's your motivation in going topless?

I have done it on holiday since I was a child, many girls go to the beaches topless as children and in their teens. My motiviation is that I have no problem with it, I get an even tan and I am not so full of myself that I believe that I am going to turn people on when I am with many other topless women. If I was I am just as likely to turn on a man in a bikini or t-shirt and shorts.The only time I was in danger from the affections of Italian men was when I was dressed and in a jewellery store or at a fruit market.
I have been brought up to be very comfortable with nudity by my "bad, heathen" parents and too appreciate other cultures and to love art. I grew up with nude artwork on the walls by parents that have been married for 33 years, without having affairs.

 

[lucyclaire]

Probably a few women will be seriously attracted to that, yes. People have all kinds of weird attractions. Would I personally? Nope.

It's already been stated that a woman could be covered head to toe and still incite lust. Men lust. It just is! It can't be prevented. And once seeing topless women becomes normal the lust factor will return to normal levels. I've seen it happen! When I went to Europe a couple years back with my bf we frequented several beaches where women were topless and the first day I could tell he was intentionally trying NOT to look, but by the third day it had become the norm and it wasn't a big deal for me OR him anymore. Amazing how quickly we adjust!

Exactly, it isn't being de-sensitized it is being a grown up, if you are on a beach with lots of topless women why would anyone be looking at you?
That is the way I look at it, if you are Cameron Diaz walking around topless, maybe lots of people men and women will be looking but people like you and me no big deal. I am sure some bloke or woman could be turned on by me walking around in a v-neck and jeans too.

 

[drstevej]

I have done it on holiday since I was a child, many girls go to the beaches topless as children and in their teens. My motiviation is that I have no problem with it, I get an even tan and I am not so full of myself that I believe that I am going to turn people on when I am with many other topless women. If I was I am just as likely to turn on a man in a bikini or t-shirt and shorts.The only time I was in danger from the affections of Italian men was when I was dressed and in a jewellery store or at a fruit market.
I have been brought up to be very comfortable with nudity by my "bad, heathen" parents and too appreciate other cultures and to love art. I grew up with nude artwork on the walls by parents that have been married for 33 years, without having affairs.

Why just topless?
Your reasoning could justify full nudity

 

[Nadiine]

Than Christians who wish to can remain with their tops on. Everybody wins.

False, this isn't about ME doing it, it's about it being IMPOSED ON ME and my spouse when we're out and about anywhere it's legal for them to strip down.

But I was just going on your statement about women doing it for "comfort". If that's the issue, then it's actually the bottoms that are the most uncomfortable, not the tops that can be better adjusted to our comfort level.

That's just your OPINION.

So becuz it's MY opinion then it means nothing in this topic? This is all about 'opinions' - opinions of women who think they have to be treated fairly w/ men - if they take off their shirts, she should be able to. You yourself used "comfort" as an argument.

If I am uncomfortable in my bikini bottoms, then I should have the legal right to just take them off, right?

Again, not relevent. No one here is advocating going completely nude. It's not sanitary, for one!

The beach isn't sanitary PERIOD - you lay down where people have spit & walked & kids pee in the sand, food dropped. & whatever else.

It is discrimination. There are almost no differences between male and female breasts. Yet one gender has to remain covered. It is discrimination and that's why when people actually fight this in court they are winning.
And what is the reason that exists for women to have their nipples covered? It seems to be fine in other cultures where women are topless. People aren't being mass raped, fights aren't breaking out, men are able to remain in control of themselves, buildings aren't being burned down, fires haven't rained down from the heavens...

love the extremes again lol
Fornication doesn't SEEM to cause harm either - but God forbids it and calls it sin. Modesty is the standard given by God - not NUDITY of any sort; namely for the female.

What HARM would getting tattoo's do to the Israelites? What HARM would picking up sticks on the Sabbath do to the family who needed to make a fire to cook or stay warm? What HARM would wearing alot of jewlery do? What HARM would 2 consenting adults do in having premarital sex using protection? What HARM is it when a married couples watches a porn flick together? What HARM is smoking 1 joint here or there?

I can list you TONS of things God tells us to do or forbids us to do; WE OBEY THEM BECUZ THEY ARE HIS COMMANDS, not whether or not we see the "harm" it causes us.
I already gave the analogy of a child disobeying their parents just becuz they don't see why they should do something they tell them do/not do. That is no reason.

For that matter, we SEE the harm in society, yet it doesn't stop people from doing it.
So I don't care what you want to say the world does, it's not ok. It's worldly and it is NOT "MODEST" as per biblical standards for dress code.

If you want to follow the world, have fun. Christians are called OUT of the world and to obey God instead. I will not condone, promote or support toplessness. Those who do can answer to God about it.

Yes but restrictions placed only on one gender is discrimination.

Even if it WERE, it doesn't make it RIGHT. The female body is NOT the male body and women are not hardwired to be visually stimulated as males are.
Female breasts ARE a sexual object for the majority of men. THAT is the difference. It's simple biology & anatomy.

So women should just be content to be discriminated against?

Do you now propose that the OT women should have uprised against GOD when He put MALE high priests over the people?

Should all the people uprise against God when He allowed only the Levite line to reside as Priests?

YES they should be content!, what you're seeing is called rebellion - the sad thing that they MISS is in their rebellious tirades for "equality" they are selling themselves short to shamefully go nude in public for the sake of getting even.
Instead of thinking of others around them, they focus on SELF and flaunt SELF in order to demand something they THINK they should have.

That's how blind & depraved they actually are and it's SAD that they don't wake up and see their value as women; instead, they want to flaunt their nakedness which is a literal shame to a woman.
IT'S CALLED PRIDE.

And personally, I'm glad the envelope has been pushed! If it hadn't, blacks might still be enslaved, women might still not be able to vote, etc. Maybe our ancestors should have been content to be discriminated against!

This doesn't work here - we're talking about what is modest and appropriate.
how do you go from slavery to being able to take your clothes off in public?
And from a legal standpoint, I cant' see why you don't condone full nudity in public - your reluctance to is completely inconsistent.
My point is equally valid as a female that I don't want my husband WHO IS STIMULATED BY BREASTS to impose on my rights as a wife not to see female BOOBS in our faces while relaxing in public places.
That is a right I deserve as a wife or girlfriend.

And if that's how women want to play this, then I say, make the males all wear shirts and the little immature whiney temper tantrums are SOLVED.!!

We all face male nudity at the beach. We all cope. We all grew up fine (most of us). There are no signs of children growing up any more weird or demented in Europe where topless females are common.

We don't "cope", women are not sexually stimulated by it. LOL

I faced it with my man in Europe (see previous post). It was a bit weird at first but after a couple days neither he nor I saw it as a big deal.

A BIT WIERD AT FIRST....... that's called desensitization dear. wake up
YOU HATED IT at first - you didn't like it, it made you uncomfortable.
Guess what, THAT SHOULD OF BEEN YOUR CUE to know something's wrong with it.

I've always said we KNOW right & wrong and we know what doesn't seem right. Instead of leaving like you should have, you went with the world to blend in and dove in to accept what isn't decent and now you promote it and want to shove it on others.

THAT is selfishness and telling others to ride it out till they're comfortable with open nudity. Do you hear yourself in that statement?

Of course! Women should still be swimming with long shirts and pantaloons! How dare we demand equality with men!

Back to our extremes. **snore**
How does it warrent YOUR extreme of totally taking clothes OFF?
It doesn't!

Besides, like I mentioned in a previous post, technically only the woman's nipple must be covered. We are already 9/10 of the way there! How offensive is the female nipple in comparison to men's, that it must be covered!

This is just more worldly reasoning .... Whatever. *yawn*
We all know God's statute on nudity - this is simple rebellion

 

[lucyclaire]

Why just topless?
Your reasoning could justify full nudity

I am talking about my experiences of being topless on by pools and on the beaches on Europe, none of them were nudist resorts therefore full nudity was not an issue for anyone. I have never been to a nudist beach, however If I did go to one, where everyone else was fully nude, I would be too.. I don't see why I should get any special attention, I wouldn't be married to the kind of man that would have a problem with nudity or was offended by art that had naked people in it..I know a Christian couple that are in fact Danish that go to a nudist beach in Denmark... some Christians may frown by they are very comfortable and much of there time to serving Jesus, through feeding the homeless, which to me is more important in their walk with Jesus than how they spend their time on the beach. I just admire their attitude to life.

 

[D'Ann]

We are Christians and are called to holiness. Somehow, I just can't accept that it's okay in God's eyes for people to be on a beach or at a pool topless. I'm not a prude... and I'm very sensual and sexual with my husband and still... in my head, I just don't think it's right for holy men and women of God to reveal their intimate parts of their bodies. I just don't think it's right.

I realize that Europe and some other countries view this nudity thing differently, but like my mom use to say... just because your friends do it, doesn't mean you should...or if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you? Just because the world accepts this way of life doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that it is pleasing to God. Do you honestly believe that God would be pleased with women going topless in a public pool area or on a beach?

I'm sorry, but I just think this is another way in which this world has been corrupted morally speaking. I think there are some who accept this because they think in a reletivism way...

 

[Nadiine]

Why just topless?
Your reasoning could justify full nudity

yes that's been my whole point in this - once 1 barrier goes down, what's to stop the next?
There's actually no legitimate reason NOT to go bottomless as well. Toplessness opens the door to full nudity.
They already have legally nude beaches. It gets down to personal opinions & preference... legally there's no reason not to when 1 is already legalized.

Again, we went in gradual steps to lower ourselves to toplessness/ open nudity in public. What's next AFTER this?
If people who are claiming Christ aren't even able to see the intensifying depravity and moral digression in boundary after boundary, that speaks volumes to me as to what the real source of the issue really is. And it isn't civil law.

 

[drstevej]

Again, we went in gradual steps to lower ourselves to toplessness/ open nudity in public. What's next AFTER this?

Beach side prostate exams.

 

[Nadiine]

We are Christians and are called to holiness. Somehow, I just can't accept that it's okay in God's eyes for people to be on a beach or at a pool topless. I'm not a prude... and I'm very sensual and sexual with my husband and still... in my head, I just don't think it's right for holy men and women of God to reveal their intimate parts of their bodies. I just don't think it's right.

I realize that Europe and some other countries view this nudity thing differently, but like my mom use to say... just because your friends do it, doesn't mean you should...or if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you? Just because the world accepts this way of life doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that it is pleasing to God. Do you honestly believe that God would be pleased with women going topless in a public pool area or on a beach?

I'm sorry, but I just think this is another way in which this world has been corrupted morally speaking. I think there are some who accept this because they think in a reletivism way...

For boyfriends and husbands who ARE red blooded males who DO view women's breasts sexually, who are out with their wives or girlfriends, I can assure you, I take total offense to sitting at a hotel poolside with women's boobs being paraded around us. Nevermind that, her entire upper torso is bare while she's just wearing a dinky bikini bottom at that! She's practically NUDE at that point. I don't appreciate it and I dont call it "MODEST" as Paul taught us to be.

There's a definite division of spirit going on and I don't doubt what we're seeing here is liberalist vs. conservative again.
And since my view is in line with scripture and the early NT churches, I'm not worried that I'm in the wrong worldview.

 

[Nadiine]

Beach side prostate exams.

*cough*



a day at the free clinic

Heck, why not start beachside enemas after that?

 

[karisma]

Why just topless?
Your reasoning could justify full nudity

Slippery slope fallacy. No one is advocating for full nudity. Just equality.

 

[LJSGM]

Slippery slope fallacy. No one is advocating for full nudity. Just equality.

Women won't be equal with men until they get rid of those pesky sexual objects on top of their chests called breasts.

that's right women! Get them chopped off!

 

[Nadiine]

Slippery slope fallacy. No one is advocating for full nudity. Just equality.

slippery slope?
You don't think what you are advocating is on the slope already?

Further, YOU are advocating only that, but OTHERS and majorities can and possibly will be advocating for full nudity (many already have and attained legally nude beaches); what's your argument against it going to be based on? Do you have one?
What's to stop that if the boundary of toplessness is already crossed.

 

[D'Ann]

For boyfriends and husbands who ARE red blooded males who DO view women's breasts sexually, who are out with their wives or girlfriends, I can assure you, I take total offense to sitting at a hotel poolside with women's boobs being paraded around us. Nevermind that, her entire upper torso is bare while she's just wearing a dinky bikini bottom at that! She's practically NUDE at that point. I don't appreciate it and I dont call it "MODEST" as Paul taught us to be.

There's a definite division of spirit going on and I don't doubt what we're seeing here is liberalist vs. conservative again.
And since my view is in line with scripture and the early NT churches, I'm not worried that I'm in the wrong worldview.

Amen. I believe that we are called to represent Jesus in every area of our lives and at every moment during our lives and yes we are human, but when we do something that we know deep down inside is truly offensive to God because it is not holy or pure to reveal to whoever our intimate body... we need to repent of that sin and overcome that desire to show that part of ourselves. I believe that our intimate body parts were meant for only a husband and wife to share with only each other.

I agree, just because the world okays this way of thinking and being doesn't mean God okays it. There are so many scriptures that preach against this very thing.

*cough*



a day at the free clinic

Heck, why not start beachside enemas after that?

Or pap smears on public beaches... in front of everyone... I mean if the standards are going down... might as well let them go all the way down...

Slippery slope fallacy. No one is advocating for full nudity. Just equality.

This has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with what is truly right verses wrong. I'm sorry, but I'm sure God is not pleased with his beautiful creation being nude or topless on a public beach or by a public pool. Sorry... this is not about equality.. it could be about rebellion though against living a pure and holy life for Christ...

 

[Nadiine]

Women won't be equal with men until they get rid of those pesky sexual objects on top of their chests called breasts.

that's right women! Get them chopped off!

hey, we can do beachside surgical breast removals next

The way to solve this is have males put ON their shirts! real simple
Let them wear bikini tops lol

 

[karisma]

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False, this isn't about ME doing it, it's about it being IMPOSED ON ME and my spouse when we're out and about anywhere it's legal for them to strip down.

No one is stripping down. Women are just going topless in the same places as men.

So becuz it's MY opinion then it means nothing in this topic? This is all about 'opinions' - opinions of women who think they have to be treated fairly w/ men - if they take off their shirts, she should be able to. You yourself used "comfort" as an argument.

It's your opinion if you think bottoms are more uncomfortable then tops. Others might beg to differ. I however am arguing from a legal standpoint, that discrimination against women is wrong. It's not really just opinion.

If I am uncomfortable in my bikini bottoms, then I should have the legal right

to just take them off, right?

No one is advocating for full nudity.

The beach isn't sanitary PERIOD - you lay down where people have spit & walked & kids pee in the sand, food dropped. & whatever else.

I guess I was more referring to parks where one might be sitting on benches, etc.

love the extremes again lol

That was the point!

Fornication doesn't SEEM to cause harm either - but God forbids it and calls it sin. Modesty is the standard given by God - not NUDITY of any sort; namely for the female.

This isn't about fornication. And you never demonstrated where God specifically stated females breasts must be covered. There are no Bible verses specifying as such. You interpret them to say that.

What HARM would getting tattoo's do to the Israelites? What HARM would picking up sticks on the Sabbath do to the family who needed to make a fire to cook or stay warm? What HARM would wearing alot of jewlery do? What HARM would 2 consenting adults do in having premarital sex using protection? What HARM is it when a married couples watches a porn flick together? What HARM is smoking 1 joint here or there?

Not relevent. I don't see the harm in smoking a joint. I've done it plenty of times and still graduated magna cum laude.

I can list you TONS of things God tells us to do or forbids us to do; WE OBEY THEM BECUZ THEY ARE HIS COMMANDS, not whether or not we see the "harm" it causes us.

Find me a verse specifying female nipples must be covered.

I already gave the analogy of a child disobeying their parents just becuz they don't see why they should do something they tell them do/not do. That is no reason.

Can we stay on topic?

For that matter, we SEE the harm in society, yet it doesn't stop people from doing it.

So I don't care what you want to say the world does, it's not ok. It's worldly and it is NOT "MODEST" as per biblical standards for dress code.

Find me the verse. Besides, this is a secular nation and we don't make laws based on what the Bible says. We make laws based on our Constitution and discrimination based on gender is illegal.

If you want to follow the world, have fun

. Christians are called OUT of the world and to obey God instead. I will not condone, promote or support toplessness. Those who do can answer to God about it.

Then don't go topless. Others have reached dissimilar conclusions to yours.

Even if it WERE, it doesn't make it RIGHT. The female body is NOT the male body and women are not hardwired to be visually stimulated as males are.

Women can get turned on by men visually.

Female breasts ARE a sexual object for the majority of men. THAT is the difference. It's simple biology & anatomy.

Breasts are simple biology and anatomy. They are not sexual organs biologically or anatomically. Sociology will tell you they have been made sexual objects.

Do you now propose that the OT women should have uprised against GOD when He put MALE high priests over the people?

Should all the people uprise against God when He allowed only the Levite line to reside as Priests?

YES they should be content!

, what you're seeing is called rebellion - the sad thing that they MISS is in their rebellious tirades for "equality" they are selling themselves short to shamefully go nude in public for the sake of getting even.

If you think women are doing it for the sake of "getting even," you are mistaken. Women want to be free and topless for the same reasons as men. Funny how you don't see many men walk around with t shirts on at the beach. Maybe it's because they enjoy the freedom and the warm sun on their skin.

Instead of thinking of others around them, they focus on SELF and flaunt SELF in order to demand something they THINK they should have.

That's how blind & depraved they actually are and it's SAD that they don't wake up and see their value as women; instead, they want to flaunt their nakedness which is a literal shame to a woman.
IT'S CALLED PRIDE.

Women are depraved now for wanting to be topless? Condescend much?

This doesn't work here - we're talking about what is modest and appropriate.

how do you go from slavery to being able to take your clothes off in public?[

Making the point that people should not tolerate discrimination, if we tolerated discrimination, those would be the conditions we would still see today.

And from a legal standpoint, I cant' see why you don't condone full nudity in public - your reluctance to is completely inconsistent.

What are you talking about? My logic is completely consistent. No one is advocating for this. From a public health perspective it is unsanitary.

My point is equally valid as a female that I don't want my husband WHO IS STIMULATED BY BREASTS to impose on my rights as a wife not to see female BOOBS in our faces while relaxing in public places.

You don't have a right NOT to see boobs. That's not a right. And if he can't control himself he should probably get professional help.

That is a right I deserve as a wife or girlfriend.

And if that's how women want to play this, then I say, make the males all wear shirts and the little immature whiney temper tantrums are SOLVED.!!

Nadiine, you are extremely condescending in your posts. It's very un-Christ like and maybe you don't intend to sound that way, but on the internet it is difficult to convey tone and you might want to double check before posting.

We don't "cope", women are not sexually stimulated by it. LOL

Oh really? Women aren't turned on by bare chested men? That's news to me.

A BIT WIERD AT FIRST....... that's called desensitization dear. wake up

Chill out. Desensitization isn't synonymous with bad.

YOU HATED IT at first - you didn't like it, it made you uncomfortable.

Where did I say I HATED it? Don't tell ME how I felt. I said it was weird at first.

Guess what, THAT SHOULD OF BEEN YOUR CUE to know something's wrong with it.

That's not a clue that something is "wrong," it's a clue that my culture is not the same.

I've always said we KNOW right & wrong and we know what doesn't seem right. Instead of leaving like you should have, you went with the world to blend in and dove in to accept what isn't decent and now you promote it and want to shove it on others.

Often what determines our sense of right and wrong is simply what we are accustomed to. When one grows up in a prudish culture we see a topless woman and think it's "wrong." That doesn't make it so.

THAT is selfishness and telling others to ride it out till they're comfortable with open nudity. Do you hear yourself in that statement?

Do you hear yourself?

Back to our extremes. **snore**

That was the point.

How does it warrent YOUR extreme

of totally taking clothes OFF?

It doesn't!

Why do you keep bringing this up? Do you have nothing else to say?

This is just more worldly reasoning .... Whatever. *yawn*

We all know God's statute on nudity - this is simple rebellion

Prove it. Show me the verse specifically condemning female toplessness.

 

[karisma]

slippery slope?
You don't think what you are advocating is on the slope already?

Further, YOU are advocating only that, but OTHERS and majorities can and possibly will be advocating for full nudity (many already have and attained legally nude beaches); what's your argument against it going to be based on? Do you have one?
What's to stop that if the boundary of toplessness is already crossed.

Public health concerns.