An example of Creation Science

[juvenissun]

You're thinking that an ape is a species. It isn't. It's a broader category that includes humans, chimps, gorillas, etc. Saying that we are smarter than apes is sort of like saying that we are smarter than mammals. It would be better to say that we are smarter than other apes - just as we are smarter than other mammals. "Ape" is a category just as "mammal" and "primate" are categories.

It would be more reasonable to ask why we are smarter than other apes.

No. What I said was correct. You are right too. We are smarter than mammals.
We are NOT in any animal category. Physically, we are similar to other mammals. But we are not the same. It is improper to compare us with other animals.

Our society, culture and technology proved it. Definitely.

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Again, why do you want to lower us to a much inferior level like other animals, include all types of ape?

 

[gluadys]

Again, why do you want to lower us to a much inferior level like other animals, include all types of ape?

Why do you have such a low opinion of other animals?

 

[lemmings]

Again, why do you want to lower us to a much inferior level like other animals, include all types of ape?

Apes are more intelligent than most other groups of mammals. Why is it that you are fine considering us mammals but you find it insulting to be called an ape if the latter is smarter?

 

[Willtor]

No. What I said was correct. You are right too. We are smarter than mammals.
We are NOT in any animal category. Physically, we are similar to other mammals. But we are not the same. It is improper to compare us with other animals.

Our society, culture and technology proved it. Definitely.

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Again, why do you want to lower us to a much inferior level like other animals, include all types of ape?

Our society, culture, and technology don't prove that we aren't animals. They prove that if we are animals we are smarter than any of the other ones. But it doesn't actually speak to whether we are or aren't. To know whether we are, one can use tools like biology and genetics.

I'm not using "ape" as an insult. I'm using it as a technical term to describe the way in which we are more similar to chimps and baboons than we are to - say - a marmoset. It's a technical term in the same way as the term mammal is used to identify certain types of creatures with certain characteristics and distinguish them from others (e.g., live birth, mother gives milk to young, etc.). Of course, you are right that humans are different from chimpanzees. But, for all the differences, we are more similar to them than we are to marmosets. And how do we express these things? By inventing classifications. It's called taxonomy and it's something that we do for descriptive reasons. That is, even for those who think we don't share common ancestors with chimps, the taxonomy is useful.

 

[Assyrian]

They prove that if we are animals we are smarter than any of the other ones.

I suppose Yogi couldn't have been a real bear either because he was
'Smarter than the av-er-age bear'
And wore a hat and tie.

 

[Mallon]

Here's a little ditty for everyone who thinks animals are stupid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

 

[juvenissun]

Here's a little ditty for everyone who thinks animals are stupid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

They ARE stupid. Otherwise, why don't we see any such paint in cave, jungle or anywhere? Why didn't they use leaves as paper? What didn't they use as pen? Why didn't they use color?

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. They are NOT my kind.

 

[juvenissun]

And how do we express these things? By inventing classifications. It's called taxonomy and it's something that we do for descriptive reasons. That is, even for those who think we don't share common ancestors with chimps, the taxonomy is useful.

You can not evaluate human being by two standards. Physically, we are similar to apes. But intellectually, we are supersuperior. Like sfs said before, we do not know how to interpret this difference either in biology or in genetics. I know people tried to find one or two differences in DNA sequence (?) and take it as a "possibly" cause. But nobody knows and I simply do not believe the difference on DNA could explain the difference.

Animals may be more capable than us. Animal may be smarter than us. But when we visit them, we go to the zoo, rather to another civilization.

We are unique creation. We are not evolved from apes.

 

[Mallon]

They ARE stupid. Otherwise, why don't we see any such paint in cave, jungle or anywhere? Why didn't they use leaves as paper? What didn't they use as pen? Why didn't they use color?

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. They are NOT my kind.

I wonder whether God would take kindly to his creation being called stupid?

 

[juvenissun]

I wonder whether God would take kindly to his creation being called stupid?

When compare to us, a definite YES.
May be I should redefine the word stupid.

 

[lemmings]

Apes are more intelligent than most other groups of mammals. Why is it that you are fine considering us mammals but you find it insulting to be called an ape if the latter is smarter?

Bump

 

[Mallon]

May be I should redefine the word stupid.

Sometimes it's just too easy. I'm not touching this one with a ten-foot pole.

 

[lemmings]

They ARE stupid. Otherwise, why don't we see any such paint in cave, jungle or anywhere? Why didn't they use leaves as paper? What didn't they use as pen? Why didn't they use color?

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. They are NOT my kind.

Why should they use leaves as paper? We provided them with the paper. Pens take a lot of effort to use as they require a considerable amount of force and require more precision than a brush. Besides, how many artists actually paint with pens?

Oh about the color and nature scenes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVmdJ6UR3l4&feature=related

 

[Willtor]

You can not evaluate human being by two standards. Physically, we are similar to apes. But intellectually, we are supersuperior. Like sfs said before, we do not know how to interpret this difference either in biology or in genetics. I know people tried to find one or two differences in DNA sequence (?) and take it as a "possibly" cause. But nobody knows and I simply do not believe the difference on DNA could explain the difference.

Animals may be more capable than us. Animal may be smarter than us. But when we visit them, we go to the zoo, rather to another civilization.

We are unique creation. We are not evolved from apes.

Recall, though, that I wasn't talking about evolution. I was talking about taxonomy. You're responding to arguments that aren't being made which means that you aren't listening. All that aside, don't be too prideful about human intellect.

 

[juvenissun]

Recall, though, that I wasn't talking about evolution. I was talking about taxonomy. You're responding to arguments that aren't being made which means that you aren't listening.

I am NOT talk about taxonomy. I AM talking about evolution.

All that aside, don't be too prideful about human intellect.

In compare to animals, why not? WHY NOT????
In front of God, we do not. We only give thanks that we are NOT evolved from apes.

 

[Assyrian]

Sounds like that old Jewish prayer...
"I thank thee, O Lord, that I was not born a woman."

 

[vossler]

It would be more reasonable to ask why we are smarter than other apes.

Actually I believe the more reasonable or pertinent question is why are we so much different from apes and other animals. The similarities between man and ape are primarily physical, in almost every other important way we're very much different. In my opinion, this is the greatest challenge evolution faces. Science, specifically evolution, can't adequately explain the uniqueness of humans compared to all animals, not just apes. I also believe as a TE it is the single biggest challenge they must accurately account for. I have yet to hear any sort of evolutionary explanation that can adequately explain the human soul and spirit. Creation, through God's Word, certainly does!

Apes are more intelligent than most other groups of mammals. Why is it that you are fine considering us mammals but you find it insulting to be called an ape if the latter is smarter?

Dolphins are more intelligent that most other groups of mammals also, does that mean we also descended from them? Whether one group of animals is smarter than another makes no difference, none can come close to comparing to the intelligence of human beings. This is why we are unique and made in the image of God.

 

[Willtor]

Actually I believe the more reasonable or pertinent question is why are we so much different from apes and other animals. The similarities between man and ape are primarily physical, in almost every other important way we're very much different. In my opinion, this is the greatest challenge evolution faces. Science, specifically evolution, can't adequately explain the uniqueness of humans compared to all animals, not just apes. I also believe as a TE it is the single biggest challenge they must accurately account for. I have yet to hear any sort of evolutionary explanation that can adequately explain the human soul and spirit. Creation, through God's Word, certainly does!

...

I think you think that TE is something different than it is. Why would discussion about the human soul and spirit be more difficult for a TE than it would be for a YEC? I'm sure you don't think that your soul and spirit were biologically transmitted to you from your parents, right? Why should evolution (a matter of biology) make a difference?

 

[Assyrian]

What Willtor said. The church had 2000 year to figure out what soul and spirit are, without any success. Why should an answer suddenly be expected of TEs? There is no reason why evolution should be expected to provide an answer unless vossler thinks spirits are biological, and if he does, he would seem to be contradicting what Jesus told us, John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[lemmings]

Dolphins are more intelligent that most other groups of mammals also, does that mean we also descended from them? Whether one group of animals is smarter than another makes no difference, none can come close to comparing to the intelligence of human beings. This is why we are unique and made in the image of God.

I am criticizing the hypocrisy in juvenissun’s position that we are mammals but not apes because of their intelligence.