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Is Flood Geology Falsifiable?

Loudmouth

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I have never addressed your OP. If you'd like me to bow out of the thread, I'll be happy to do so.

I'm not anyone's boss around here. Do as you please.

Here is a different but related question. If someone had never read nor heard of Genesis would they look at the geologic record and come to the conclusion that there was a recent global flood?
 
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AV1611VET

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Potential evidence is how we know we are talking about science.

Evidence to the contrary --- potential evidence to the contrary --- whatever --- I just know the Bible says it - that settles it.

Evidence can take a hike.
 
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AV1611VET

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Here is a different but related question. If someone had never read nor heard of Genesis would they look at the geologic record and come to the conclusion that there was a recent global flood?

No.
 
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keith99

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It's a simple yes/no. Is there any potential evidence that could falsify the existence of a recent global flood?

You seem to be indicating that you would not accept any evidence that contradicts your conclusion, so I am assuming your answer would be "no" to the question above.

As I see it your question fails in a couple of ways. I would be very surprised if there is NOT some geologic evidence of an extensive recent (geologicly speaking) flood. That does not mean the flood of noah. Then there is another issue. Falisfy to who and falsify what? As far as Geologists, including those who started from the idea that "The Flood" is responsible for most geologic features the flood as source of geology theory has been falsified.
 
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LittleNipper

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Dear Flood Geologists,

What geologic formation, if found, would be inconsistent with a recent global flood? What features would such a formation have? What fossils would such a feature contain?

P.S. This thread is mainly for creationists, but this is an open forum. If non-creationists want to propose potential falsifications please try to make it constructive.
Flood model hypotheses based upon the historicity of the Flood are falsifiable. See http://creationwiki.org/Flood_geology
 
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thaumaturgy

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Evidence to the contrary --- potential evidence to the contrary --- whatever --- I just know the Bible says it - that settles it.

Evidence can take a hike.

Oh, btw, I'm definitely saving this for the next time I see you claim you hold science to a "higher standard". Because now we know exactly "how high" that standard is.
 
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AV1611VET

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Oh, btw, I'm definitely saving this for the next time I see you claim you hold science to a "higher standard". Because now we know exactly "how high" that standard is.

You should have known in the first place.

Indeed I do hold science to a higher Standard, and if science is antithetic to what He wrote, science can take a hike.
 
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thaumaturgy

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Flood model hypotheses based upon the historicity of the Flood are falsifiable. See http://creationwiki.org/Flood_geology

That appears to be a very comprehensive list of poor geology.

Let's look at this for instance:

Creation_Wiki said:
Flood geologists point to the existence of large oil deposits as the result of the accumulation of large amounts of dead plant and animal matter during the flood which were subsequently compressed below the surface. They argue that there is no evidence of fossil fuels being formed today, or any clear mechanism for how it could occur without catastrophe. They argue that the flood provides the necessary catastrophe.

Interesting that the source rock for many oil fields is actually black shale. This forms in pretty quiet conditions. It's made up of very very small mineral particles that won't settle out unless the water column is very still! (As a clay mineralogist how they settle out clays to study by X-ray diffraction some time.) Interesting how you can simultaneously generate a HUGE amount of this stuff which contains sufficient organic material as to form the oil (which is a thermal breakdown product of this stuff) in volumes sufficient to flow out to a reservoir rock somewhere else.

Oh, yeah, and one other thing: how does the Flood kill off the requisite tons and tons and tons of algae and plankton necessary to make this all so very quickly? Especially considering that at any given single point in time I would wonder how much plankton was available. Were all the oceans green semi-solids of algal gunk for thousands and thousands of square miles?

And, even more interesting is the fact that various oil source rocks show differing thermal histories indicating differing geologic histories.


How 'bout this as well:

CreationWiki said:
This is the fact that the remains of animals; particularly invertebrates; would tend to get sorted like any other form in moving water. Buoyancy , size and shape would all be factors. Buoyancy is one factor that cannot be determined from fossils.

Uh, yeah. Except for the fact that many of the animals have analogues or direct equivalents on the earth today, which we can test their "bouyancy".

Do, please, tell me how "bouyant" coral is like modern corals versus rugose corals. Why don't we find rugose corals significantly mixed in with modern corals throughout the geologic column?

CreationWiki said:
These flood geologists argue that massive liquefaction can explain phenomena such as transported blocks, sand plumes, coal and limestone deposits

Ohmygosh! Coal, explained by liquefaction? That's a first in my experience. (And I got my PhD in coal geology).

But even if you can dig up some bizarre example of a catastrophic flood coal (I dunno, never heard of one, but I won't doubt that something weird might exist), I should think it hard to explain the larger overall world of coal, including things like: fusinite layers in a coal indicating swamp fires that occasionally broke out. I should also think it hard to explain underclays (probably the original soil horizon in coal swamps)...not to mention CYCLOTHEMS which show repeated examples of swamp, oceanic intrusion, subaerial exposure, swamp, oceanic intrusion, subaerial exposure, swamp, oceanic intrusion...etc.

Over and over and over again. How many centuries did the Flood last again? How many Noachian Floods occurred in a row again?
 
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thaumaturgy

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You should have known in the first place.

Indeed I do hold science to a higher Standard, and if science is antithetic to what He wrote, science can take a hike.

If science has anything to say about what science is, then you demonstrably do not hold it to a "higher standard". You hold it to your own personal religious standard, which is really quite different.

If something cannot be tested for and is "antithetical" to evidence, I should think it rather questionable to begin with.

I can think of only one thing that feels the need to be hidden from investigation and evidence.

But I won't annoy you with what the one thing is. But it begins with an "L".
 
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AV1611VET

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You're honesty is noted and much appreciated.

Any other Young Earth Creationists want to comment.

Thank you, sir; I shall now relegate myself to read-only mode for awhile --- ;)
 
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Loudmouth

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As I see it your question fails in a couple of ways. I would be very surprised if there is NOT some geologic evidence of an extensive recent (geologicly speaking) flood.

That is why I try to include "global" in the phrase "recent global flood".

A great example of recent catastrophic is the Channeled Scablands in Washington and Oregon. However, the Channeled Scabalands are local, not global.

That does not mean the flood of noah. Then there is another issue. Falisfy to who and falsify what? As far as Geologists, including those who started from the idea that "The Flood" is responsible for most geologic features the flood as source of geology theory has been falsified.

There are Young Earth Creationists who claim that they have gone over the evidence and come to quite a different conclusion than the mainstream geological view. The questions in the OP are aimed at this group.
 
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Loudmouth

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Flood model hypotheses based upon the historicity of the Flood are falsifiable. See http://creationwiki.org/Flood_geology

Could you give us a specific falsification? From a very quick read it appears that they are trying to explain away problematic evidence such as mud cracks, varves, etc. Nowhere do they discuss what types of sediments this recent global flood could NOT produce. Did I miss that section?

For example, here is a quote from the website you linked to:

These flood geologists argue that massive liquefaction can explain phenomena such as transported blocks, sand plumes, coal and limestone deposits, the near total purity of the 500,000 sq. mile St. Peter Sandstone, smooth bending rock strata, and aquifers, and which remain inadequately explained by mainstream geology. [1]

What geologic phenomena is incompatible with liquefaction? It doesn't say.

Added by edit: Actually, it does tell us what is incompatible with liquefaction here "moving water always creates sedimentary layering and liquefaction always destroys layering. Given the vast amount of sedimentary layers around the world, liquefaction is argued to have played a very minor part in the geologic record." However, this only leads me to ask what phenomena are incosistent with liquefaction and moving water.
 
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