My First Topic

[mysterychristian]

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect

That is the issue.
There will be some who accept the Bible and others who don't, but if we are ready to defend our belief with gentleness and respect, it will be far more effective than "Bible bashing"!

Very True, but we are to be like Christ, the way he handled people was he spoke the Word to them, he didnt mince words, he let the word speak for itself, he held it forth lovingly and boldly and left it at that, then the burden is on them to believe, to accept or reject the truth.

A big problem that people have today is that do not understand love, Jesus Christ always loved he alwasy did his Fathers will, and if you study how he handled the word with people, you will see that many poeple were offended by the word he spoke, believer and unbeliever alike, poeple get upset when what you say crosses what they have held for a belief in there heart for a long time, that is the nature of things, but those who hunger and thrist after truth, will listen consider, re-evaluate, and go to the word to see that those things spoken are so, and then if they are MEEK they will change their minds, there thinking, there believing, if they are not MEEK they will not.

 

[mysterychristian]

Is this passage meant to be applied to others or ourselves?

What I mean is, when I read this I feel that the scriptures are given to me so that I can read them, study them, pray about them and then be instructed and corrected by the Holy Ghost. I don't take this to mean that I should be correcting others with them.

We are supposed to be a family and in a family there are more learned and loving and those who have grown up in maturity in the word, so this vers we are talking about is written to leadership in the body of Christ, and leadership has the responsibily to love take care and teach the word to others, wether it be doctrine, reproof or correction.

Sure you should study on your own and develope your own relationship with God that is primary, but many times people need to be instructed in alot of things, that is what God gave Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, Helps and Goverments for.

 

[Adammi]

Well in pauls own writing he says ALL SCRIPTURE, so ALL means ALL SCRIPTURE...

But what is scripture? I have no idea what you are talking about unless you tell me what scripture is.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

But what is scripture? I have no idea what you are talking about unless you tell me what scripture is.

He's got a point there. I believe the Hindus call their
Veda "Scripture" as well....

 

[mysterychristian]

At what point would you say (and by "you" I mean the OP as well as anyone) that using Scripture for doctrine, reproof, and correction enters the category of "beating someone up with a Bible"? We are also counseled to "speak truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15). It has been my observation that too many people who argue smaller points of Scipture, while they *think* that merely "setting someone straight and getting them compliant with the Word of God" is an act of love... well... look at their faces and see this rather than this.

I rather like Jesus' method in the Temple when he was only 12. He recognized that, though He Himself is the highest authority, He would not be taken seriously at His age if he came on with an attitude of "Listen up, because I'm going to tell you what the real deal is, and if you don't listen to me you're in serious error." Instead, He "listened and asked questions." (Luke 2:46) By the time Mary and Joseph came to pick Him up, he had the Temple scholars, .

I think we can win more souls with question marks than with exclamation points, because people don't like to be pounded on.

Also, although I believe the Bible is the Word of God, I do find it a tad bit annoying when people address worries by cutting and pasting Scripture, and nothing else. Those who do not believe the Bible is the Word of God will tune it out like the humming sound of a kitchen appliance, and you're wasting your energy if you keep going on about it.

And one final thought on instructing in righteousness via Scripture--consider this from Titus 3:



I've seen entire Sunday school classes bogged down in whether to take Communion from a single cup or from many; how long a woman's hair should be; whether the "c" in church should be capitalized, whether Jonah was swallowed by a whale or a fish, whether that fish coughed him up, burped him up, spit him up or whatever.... Verses 10-11 are worded rather harshly, yes, but I understand it to mean don't keep hashing it out when someone believes differently. If correction and reproof don't work after one or two tries, give it a rest. This is why I unsubscribe to threads if there are too many signs that it is ceasing to be discussion, and beginning to be debate.

The reason Jesus Christ asked questions was because at that age that was the only way he was allowed to learn in the temple, they could not teach at that age it was wrong to do so, he wasn't worried wether they would take him seriously or not.

Look I do not mean to offend you, those who want to learn will tune in those who dont wont, that is their perogative.

If you have a problem with the way I share the word then that will cause you not to receive the word, you need to be more interested in what is being taught and not necessarily so interested in what you do not like about how it is taught.

I endeavor to do my best to share what is on my heart to share and the verse I started out with was a starting point because when I share the Word that will be my main basis, the Bible and poeple need to know that, a will also use the practicality of lifes situations at times, when they apply or will enhance what I am sharing.

This thread was started by me and all who will come may, I will not force anyone to read what I have wrote or believe it, but you have made the choice to read it, I did not post to argue with anyone, but inorder for me to share the Word I want everyone to know that when I do discuss the word I will adhere to the principles in the Word the best that I can, and if the discussion gets to the point where these principles are brokena nd ignored we have no legs to stand on, and are in a boat without an oar, you have to have principles to regulate the discussion, to keep the discussions withen bounds of the word.

I Timothy 2:15
II Peter 1:20

These verses above are foundational to the word being handled rightly and must be adhered to above all else.

Just so you know my motivation for doing this is that maybe someone will want to learn? Will want understand the Word better, the better you understand the Word the better you can KNOW God and His Will for you.

 

[Adammi]

He's got a point there. I believe the Hindus call their
Veda "Scripture" as well....

Yes, and not only that, but even the most conservative numbers say that Jude; John; 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John; and Revelation were all written after the quoted verse from 2 Timothy. Was Paul also referring to these books? Was he referring to other popular Christian literature that was not included in the New Testament by the established church? Was he referring to only the Pentateuch? Was he referring to all of the Hebrew Bible? There were very popular schools of thought in Judaism that even exist to this day, which say that only the Torah is to be considered as scripture. While other Jews have considered even the Talmud to be scripture. Did Paul know supernaturally that the Book of Mormon would be written and and know that it should be considered scripture? Did he believe that Christianity, when taken to other cultures, should adopt the "scriptures" of that culture? The Vedas? The Quran? I realize that my last several questions are a bit of a stretch, however, we really cannot know what scriptures Paul was referring to in terms of what he considered early Christian writings to be or his opinion of the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible.

 

[mysterychristian]

But what is scripture? I have no idea what you are talking about unless you tell me what scripture is.

Oh I see, what you mean, well lets see, what do you think Paul means by scripture, the daily news paper? "life" magazine? come on if you are being serious you should know that what paul means by scripture is the Word of God, the old test and the new, it sure is not hindu scripture or any other scripture.

I will assume you were being serious and not try to pull my leg and bait me for an argument, read the Bible and see what Paul studied from his youth, and what paul said about his own writings, and what the Word declares about itself, the Bible is scripture, that is what it is refferring to.

Do you want to do a word study on the word scripture? is that what we are headed towards? If so no big deal. we can do that.

I just wonder why you would think that he would be talking about anything other than the Bible?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Now I'm mad. Don't even try to say I don't know, or want to learn, the Word, simply because I don't do it *your* way. You obviously have an agenda and want to try to "prove by the Word" that you're right about something and everybody else is wrong. Why don't you just cut to the chase and say it?

 

[mysterychristian]

He's got a point there. I believe the Hindus call their
Veda "Scripture" as well....

Anyone can call what they write scripture we are reffering to the Bible and what paul is refering to is the Bible, we are talking about God breathed scripture, that was spake as holy men of God were moved.

Not hindu, or islam, or christian writers not in the bible as we know it today.

 

[mysterychristian]

He's got a point there. I believe the Hindus call their
Veda "Scripture" as well....

Anyone can call what they write scripture we are reffering to the Bible and what paul is refering to is the Bible, we are talking about God breathed scripture, that was spake as holy men of God were moved.

Not hindu, or islam, or christian writers not in the bible as we know it today.

 

[Adammi]

Anyone can call what they write scripture we are reffering to the Bible and what paul is refering to is the Bible, we are talking about God breathed scripture, that was spake as holy men of God were moved.

Not hindu, or islam, or christian writers not in the bible as we know it today.

But what parts of the Bible?

 

[mysterychristian]

Now I'm mad. Don't even try to say I don't know, or want to learn, the Word, simply because I don't do it *your* way. You obviously have an agenda and want to try to "prove by the Word" that you're right about something and everybody else is wrong. Why don't you just cut to the chase and say it?

To be MEEK means to be coachable, teachable, would you say that you are coachable and teachable?

I have a great example of the opposite, my sisters boy when he was little had a little toy that had little shapes like circles and squares and triangles and such, and he kept trying to put the circle in the square and the triangle in the circle and he could never make it fit, I tried to show him that he was doing it wrong and he threw a fit and said I will do it my way, so he kept on wouldnt listen, he was not coachable or teachable, he was prideful and had to do it his way, until he actually decided to let someone show him a diff way then his own he was frustrated and upset that it wouldnt work.

Eventually he allowed me to help him and show him something new a diff approach to the problem, he became meek and allowed me to teach him.

 

[mysterychristian]

But what parts of the Bible?

It says ALL scripture. All scripture all the bible.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said. It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Adammi]

It says ALL scripture. All scripture all the bible.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said. It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But ALL of the Bible was not yet written and many many many people of Paul's time did not consider what we consider ALL to be ALL. I'm not looking for an adjective. Give me nouns. Tell me what exactly was considered to be scripture. You are talking in circles. ALL means nothing to me! The Pentateuch? The entire Hebrew Bible? The entire New Testament like we have it today? Only the New Testament up to what was written in AD 65 when Paul wrote 2 Timothy? Give us a list of what Paul considered "scripture" and then we can finally move on to something new.

 

[mysterychristian]

But ALL of the Bible was not yet written and many many many people of Paul's time did not consider what we consider ALL to be ALL. I'm not looking for an adjective. Give me nouns. Tell me what exactly was considered to be scripture. You are talking in circles. ALL means nothing to me! The Pentateuch? The entire Hebrew Bible? The entire New Testament like we have it today? Only the New Testament up to what was written in AD 65 when Paul wrote 2 Timothy? Give us a list of what you meant by "scripture" and then we can finally move on to something new.

All Scripture before, during, and after paul that is now collected into what is now known in the modern day as the whole Bible.

Whew. glad we are through with that?

This is not including the Apocrypha.

I do like your adamacy on accuracy though that will prove to be a good virtue in studying the word and discussing the word, I just assumed you understood what I meant, my mistake.

Also in II Peter 3:15,16 Peter refers to Paul so that shows that peter is in harmony with Paul for sure.

I am sure that I can find some more biblical evidence if we need to, I would prefer not going back and forth on this which to me is getting to the point of being ridiculous. I am sure at this point that you know what I am reffering to when I say ALL.

 

[Adammi]

All Scripture before, during, and after paul that is now collected into what is now known in the modern day as the whole Bible.

Whew. glad we are through with that?

This is not including the Apocrypha.

I do like your adamacy on accuracy though that will prove to be a good virtue in studing the word and discussing the word, I just assumed you understood what I meant, my mistake.

Yes, we are now getting somewhere. What about the Deuterocanon? What about the Book of Mormon? How do you come to the assumption that Paul would say that the NT as we have it today has neither added to nor subtracted from what he meant by "scripture"?

 

[mysterychristian]

Yes, we are now getting somewhere. What about the Deuterocanon? What about the Book of Mormon? What about the New Testament books written after Paul's death?

I am wondering what you are trying to gey me to say, what part of ALL or EVERY do you not understand.

Is the book of Mormon in the Bible?

If the books that were written after pauls death are in the bible then yes they are included, and as for the Deuterocanon? never heard that term before, but if you are reffereing to the old test books of the bible, written by moses, yes those to an dall the other prohets, also and the psalms and the proverbs, ect....

I think that you understand what I am talking about, maybe I am wrong I am not sure as of yet, I am believing that you are not baiting and looking for an inroad to casue some crazy arguement.

I will say it again, in the simplist of terms as I possible can, if you were to Go to the store in the bible section you would find the most common of all bibles the King James Version will do, all the contents in that Bible is what I am reffering to.

Well becasue I believe that Paul was a holy man of God inspired by God and that God knows what he is doing, when He inspired paul to write ALL scripture God knew that in the future there would be this day a Bible that the word ALL would refer to, God is ALL KNOWING past present and future, He is Wise and not dumb, He has foreknowledge.....

 

[GuardianShua]

But ALL of the Bible was not yet written and many many many people of Paul's time did not consider what we consider ALL to be ALL. I'm not looking for an adjective. Give me nouns. Tell me what exactly was considered to be scripture. You are talking in circles. ALL means nothing to me! The Pentateuch? The entire Hebrew Bible? The entire New Testament like we have it today? Only the New Testament up to what was written in AD 65 when Paul wrote 2 Timothy? Give us a list of what Paul considered "scripture" and then we can finally move on to something new.

Before people were called Christians they were called "converts" to Judaism.

 

[DeanM]

To be MEEK means to be coachable, teachable, would you say that you are coachable and teachable?

With all due respect, what exactly to you hope to gain here? Your opening few days have shown you to have a penchant for teaching over discourse.

I can live with that approach. Really, I can.

But now you've moved into new territory by implying that there are 'meek' among us.

Asside from the fact that the meek are among the blessed, I'm not sure if your realize that it is a rather negative statement to make about anyone here.

I'd like to add that you know very little about us, and I'd thank you to keep your assertions and judgements to yourself.

I'm curious if you've been listening to anyone here who has putting it to you rather gently that you're coming across as superior to the rest of us.

We already have a saviour. What we could use is a friend.

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun by expaining to you that you have already started to hurt a few very good people. Whether or not it is intentional, you might want to read back to pick up on the few 'gentle hints' that have been made in this regard.

If it is not your intention to cause hurt, I'm sorry for calling you out on this. Please accept my apology if this is the case.

But please, tone down your judgemental behavior.

We already have a Judge.

What we'd like is a friend.

 

[mysterychristian]

With all due respect, what exactly to you hope to gain here? Your opening few days have shown you to have a penchant for teaching over discourse.

I can live with that approach. Really, I can.

But now you've moved into new territory by implying that there are 'meek' among us.

Asside from the fact that the meek are among the blessed, I'm not sure if your realize that it is a rather negative statement to make about anyone here.

I'd like to add that you know very little about us, and I'd thank you to keep your assertions and judgements to yourself.

I'm curious if you've been listening to anyone here who has putting it to you rather gently that you're coming across as superior to the rest of us.

We already have a saviour. What we could use is a friend.

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun by expaining to you that you have already started to hurt a few very good people. Whether or not it is intentional, you might want to read back to pick up on the few 'gentle hints' that have been made in this regard.

If it is not your intention to cause hurt, I'm sorry for calling you out on this. Please accept my apology if this is the case.

But please, tone down your judgemental behavior.

We already have a Judge.

What we'd like is a friend.

Meek from Gods point of view biblically is a very, very, high compliment, so if you take it as a negative then you do not know how the word is used biblically.

You said that very few of you on here are meek, well that is exactly what I am referring to, not being teachable and coachable, that is the opposite of being meek form a biblical usage.

I am not judging anyone at all when I say what I say, we are to let the word judge us, and when the word is spoken rightly and people refuse it they have judged themselves unworthy of truth.

We are not to judge the heart of another that is true but you definatly can judge there actions in light of the word. That is exactly what Jesus Christ did, he judged actions and many times when God showed him there hearts he judged there hearts.

Show me where I have judged someone?

All I have stated is that in order to learn you have to be meek, you have to be coachable and teachable, you have to be receptive to the words spoken.

A friend, what does that mean, someone who will tell you are right when you are wrong? I do not what a friend like that. We are to sharpen each others walk on the word, iron sharpeneth iron, we are to help each other with the word, encourage each other and heal each other, this starts with truth, because it is truth that sets you free from mental bondages, like fear, inferiority complexes, jealousy, suicidal tendacies, all the other junk that people deal with daily.

I am not on this forum to talk about little insignificant things like I have read on some of these forums, I honestly am just here to try and help people with the Word.

Now if the fact that I believe I can help people with the Word makes you think that I am above you or anyone else that's stupid, just because someone believes they are able to help makes them no better in quality on the inside, now they may be more knowledgable in the word and if that offends someone that is stupid also, everyone on here knows what they do and dont know, and I know what I know, and many times what I share with people they have never heard it in the way that I share it.

Read some of my posts on this forum, they are clear, consise, easy to be followed and understood. They are straight to the point and very informative.

Maybe this is not what people are used to, I honestly think people are used to confusion and people not knowing what they are talking about and people not believeing the very words they use when they teach.

I strongly believe what I say because what I say can be backed up by God's Word, who is the authrority on truth.

People get offended all the time, like I said before when they hear something that doesnt agree with their way of thinking or believing. Does that mean that I should stop pleasing God by speaking his word, to please men?