Question time. Jesus returns before or after 1000yrs

[JacktheCatholic]

Oh..ok..umm...

The time that includes the beast, the two witnesses, judgments and wrath are just that...judgment and wrath.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Hbr 9:28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


1Pe 1:5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


Rom 5:9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

1Th 1:10and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Luk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”


Then, here are a multitide seen in heaven, standing before the throne and the Lamb singing about salvation PRIOR to judgment and wrath:

Rev 7:10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

I see...

When Jesus comes and we go up to meet him he will judge the living and the dead and so all will be decided. There is not 1,000 year waiting period after that. Why? Jesus is already King over all. Today and tomorrow. So the Devil is no longer ruling in God's kingdom and if he is in Hell then what does it matter since God and all the Saints will be in Jesus' kingdom.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I see...

When Jesus comes and we go up to meet him he will judge the living and the dead and so all will be decided. There is not 1,000 year waiting period after that. Why? Jesus is already King over all. Today and tomorrow. So the Devil is no longer ruling in God's kingdom and if he is in Hell then what does it matter since God and all the Saints will be in Jesus' kingdom.

Well, Jesus will reign from the temple in Jerusalem for the millenium. There will still be death and disobedience but no devil around. Jesus rules until everything is put under his feet including death.

Isa 2:2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established
as chief among the mountains;
it will be raised above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.

Isa 2:3 Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.




Isa 65:20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Zec 8:20 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come,
Zec 8:21 and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’
Zec 8:22 And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”
Zec 8:23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’ ”


Zec 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.
Zec 14:18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 On that dayHOLY TO THE Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord's house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.
Zec 14:21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty.




1Cr 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.




Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth–Gog and Magog–to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

 

[LLWHA]

we are in the "1,000" year reign now, the Church is the kingdom of Christ

Wrong Jesus gave the Kingdom to a nation.

Jesus hates churches.

Jesus in Matthew. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you (the Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you (the Jews), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes" - the "House of Israel").

 

[LLWHA]

[SIZE=+1]

Mark 13:28 [SIZE=+1]Now learn a parable of the Fig tree (Jews); When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (1948), ye know that Summer is near:[SIZE=+1]
13:29 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, [even] at the doors.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
13:30 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the Fig tree (Jews); When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (1948), ye know that Summer [is] nigh:
24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the end) is near, [even] at the doors.
24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
24:36 But of That Day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
24:37 But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.



Ezekiel 21:26 Thus saith the Lord "I AM"; Remove the diadem (sovereignty), and take off the crown: this [shall] not [be] the same: exalt [him that is] low (Line of Judah/Zarah), and abase [him that is] high (Line of Judah/Pharez).
21:27 I will overturn (1), overturn (2), overturn (3), it: and it shall be no [more], [overturned] UNTIL he come whose Right it is; and (4) I will give it [him - Shiloh/Christ (Genesis 49 v 10)].


The first three overturns were:-
1. From Judah/Pharez in Jerusalem to Judah/Zarah (of the "Red Hand" - Genesis 38:28-30) at Tara, County Royal Meath, Ireland.
2. From Tara to Scotland and Fergus the Great.
3. From Scotland to England, with Edward "Longshanks".

4. The fourth overturn began on 25/12/50 when Ian Hamilton and friends kindly removed the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey and took it from David, who was from both the Judah line of David (Gen. 49:10) and also was called prince David, who had become king Edward the 8th and outlived his stand-in - George the 6th, fulfilling, exactly, Christ's own prophecy to his Apostle John in his Revelation to John:-


I would say He is here now and just like Noah no one believes His message. He is in a new body with a new name.

Malachi.
3:15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, [they that] tempt God are even saved.
3:16 Then they that feared the "I AM" spoke often one to another: and the "I AM" hearkened, and heard [it], and a Book of Remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the "I AM", and that thought upon His name.
3:17 And they shall be Mine, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up My special treasure; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not (Rev. 20:12-15; 21:27).
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM":
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Eli=High Priest Jah=God only one High Priest. That is Christ.
[/SIZE]

 

[Ben12]

Raptured is a man made religious term that is not scriptural; it is an escapism doctrine that makes God’s people complacent and spiritual lazy. The "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830! At the time of the Reformation the early Protestants widely held and Were convinced that the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church the Harlot System of Rev. 17. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. It therefore became expedient for certain Romish theologians to turn the attention of the people away from the Papacy, and this they endeavored to a counter-interpretation to that held by the Protestants. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as FUTURISM. Rather than viewing the drama of the book of Revelation spiritually and historically, they would consign it all to a brief period of time at the end of the age. It was a Jesuit priest named Ribera who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist away down at the end of the age. Thus Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the Secret Rapture has now become an integral part.
Later, Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.
Now enter the name of Edward Irving. Born in Scotland in 1792, Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.
About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin ' , it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name !'Plymouth Brethren" became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity in Christ of all believers - in reaction to the deadness and formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical Heirarchy. A man by the name of John Nelson Darby was the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.
Thus Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time, a group of seeking Christians were meeting in the castle of Lady Powerscourt for the study of Bible prophecy. Many clergymen attended, and quite a few who were Irvingites. The Irvingites came to the meetings obsessed with the ideas of the "Secret Rapture" and the future Antichrist, imbibed from the Jesuit Lacunza's book. J.N. Darby and the other Brethren leaders were invited to these meetings and became participators in them. It was there that he was introduced to the Jesuit teaching of the Secret Rapture and the futurist interpretation of prophecy, as well as the famous book by Rabbi Ben-Ezra, or, actually, Jesuit priest Emmanuel Lacunza! Darby was himself a prolific writer and from that time a constant stream of propaganda came from his pen. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized "futurism" into a system of prophetic teaching called "dispensationalism." Darby' s biographers refer to him as "the father of dispensationalism." And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called SECRET RAPTURE

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Wrong Jesus gave the Kingdom to a nation.

Jesus hates churches.

Jesus in Matthew. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you (the Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you (the Jews), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes" - the "House of Israel").

This makes more sense when you realize Jesus is saying the gentiles will be children of God too. Keep in mind that Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law. Matthew 5 I believe.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well, Jesus will reign from the temple in Jerusalem for the millenium. There will still be death and disobedience but no devil around. Jesus rules until everything is put under his feet including death.

Isa 2:2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established
as chief among the mountains;
it will be raised above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.

Isa 2:3 Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.




Isa 65:20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Zec 8:20 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come,
Zec 8:21 and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’
Zec 8:22 And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”
Zec 8:23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’ ”


Zec 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.
Zec 14:18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 On that dayHOLY TO THE Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord's house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.
Zec 14:21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty.




1Cr 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.




Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth–Gog and Magog–to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

All this confirms what I said. Of course you must read Revelations in light of the fact that prophecies are told two or more ways. Remember Joseph?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

All this confirms what I said. Of course you must read Revelations in light of the fact that prophecies are told two or more ways. Remember Joseph?

Well, it would certainly be nice if everything was over when Jesus appears and finally a new heavens/new earth.

But, that would mean that satan has been bound and in a pit for the past 1000 years (or really long time - giving those who do not believe in a literal 1000 years the benefit of the doubt) and, just by looking around, he most certainly has not, not to mention scripturally:

1Pe 5:8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


Eph 4:26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.



Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
Eph 6:15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.



Jam 4:7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.




No, the devil is not currently bound...he roams around seeking someone to devour, he schemes, we are to resist him so that he will flee, he'll put some in prison and kill some...and on and on...

No, he is most definitely NOT currently bound.

Remember Job? Satan appeared before God and God allowed satan to harm Job and mess with his life. Nothing has changed except that through Christ we can overcome him until Christ puts him in a pit for a 1000 years and then kills him.

IN regards to an actual 1000 years...don't you find it odd that it has been nearly a literal 2000 years since Christ was born? Scripture symbolically points to Christ return on the morning of the 3rd day (Exodus 19 & Good Samaritan parable as well as when Christ rose). God also gave the pattern of 7 days, with the 7th being a day of rest. Do you think all of that was just arbitrary and coincidence?


PS: Yes, there are actual pits in the spiritual world where angels are kept for the day of judgment:

2Pe 2:4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;


Jud 1:6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home-these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well, it would certainly be nice if everything was over when Jesus appears and finally a new heavens/new earth.

But, that would mean that satan has been bound and in a pit for the past 1000 years (or really long time - giving those who do not believe in a literal 1000 years the benefit of the doubt) and, just by looking around, he most certainly has not, not to mention scripturally:

1Pe 5:8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


Eph 4:26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.



Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
Eph 6:15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.



Jam 4:7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.




No, the devil is not currently bound...he roams around seeking someone to devour, he schemes, we are to resist him so that he will flee, he'll put some in prison and kill some...and on and on...

No, he is most definitely NOT currently bound.

Remember Job? Satan appeared before God and God allowed satan to harm Job and mess with his life. Nothing has changed except that through Christ we can overcome him until Christ puts him in a pit for a 1000 years and then kills him.

IN regards to an actual 1000 years...don't you find it odd that it has been nearly a literal 2000 years since Christ was born? Scripture symbolically points to Christ return on the morning of the 3rd day (Exodus 19 & Good Samaritan parable as well as when Christ rose). God also gave the pattern of 7 days, with the 7th being a day of rest. Do you think all of that was just arbitrary and coincidence?


PS: Yes, there are actual pits in the spiritual world where angels are kept for the day of judgment:

2Pe 2:4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;


Jud 1:6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home-these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

That is all very interesting but the scriptures do not say the devil is reigning here on earth.

We are still waiting for Jesus to come and end time here on earth and judge us all. But I still only see evil influences and no evil reign. Death has been overcome as well.

To answer you... I see the number 1,000 as being symbolic and not literal. Revelations is more poetic then literal and it even tells the same thing more then once but in a different fashion.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

That is all very interesting but the scriptures do not say the devil is reigning here on earth.

We are still waiting for Jesus to come and end time here on earth and judge us all. But I still only see evil influences and no evil reign. Death has been overcome as well.

To answer you... I see the number 1,000 as being symbolic and not literal. Revelations is more poetic then literal and it even tells the same thing more then once but in a different fashion.

2Cr 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Luk 22:53 Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour–when darkness reigns.”

Jhn 9:4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.


Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
Eph 6:15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.


He's not in an abyss...he's still in the "heavenly realms", the world is still "dark" and growing "darker".



Death has been overcome in the Spirit but not yet in the flesh. Christ died for the entire man...Spirit and Body. When we die physically, our Spirit's live on. We are still waiting for the "redemption of our bodies" and for death to be destroyed in the physical as well as the spiritual:

Rom 8:23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


That's why there is a resurrection and change of our actual bodies.

Phl 3:21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.


1Th 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
1Th 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.




1Jo 3:2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This makes more sense when you realize Jesus is saying the gentiles will be children of God too. Keep in mind that Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law. Matthew 5 I believe.

At least until THEIR heaven and land pass away.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 5:18 "For amen I am saying to ye, till ever may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) the Heaven and the Land, iota one or one horn not no may-be-passing-away/parelqh <3928> (5632) from the Law, till ever all shall-be-becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638) "

Revelation 21:1 And I perceived a-Heaven, New, and a-Land, New, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......
6 And He said to me:" it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

Isaiah 65:17 That behold-Me! Creating/01254 bara' Heavens New-ones and-Land New and-not they-shall-be-remembered the-former-ones and-not they-shall-come-up on heart.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Another option that is needed has to do with the issue that there is no literal 1000 years period. It is symbolic. The poll really needs to make room for those who do not believe in a literal 1000 year period in order to include us.

 

[thereselittleflower]

That is all very interesting but the scriptures do not say the devil is reigning here on earth.

We are still waiting for Jesus to come and end time here on earth and judge us all. But I still only see evil influences and no evil reign. Death has been overcome as well.

To answer you... I see the number 1,000 as being symbolic and not literal. Revelations is more poetic then literal and it even tells the same thing more then once but in a different fashion.

In fact, in the literal section at the very beginning of Revelation, before the "revelation" part starts, John clearly states that Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth NOW! Rev 1:5

And this was at the time he wrote this 1900 years ago - so Jesus has been the one reigning for 2000 years!

His reign is NOW, not future.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Well, it would certainly be nice if everything was over when Jesus appears and finally a new heavens/new earth.

But, that would mean that satan has been bound and in a pit for the past 1000 years (or really long time - giving those who do not believe in a literal 1000 years the benefit of the doubt) and, just by looking around, he most certainly has not, not to mention scripturally:

1Pe 5:8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


Eph 4:26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.



Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
Eph 6:15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.



Jam 4:7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.




No, the devil is not currently bound...he roams around seeking someone to devour, he schemes, we are to resist him so that he will flee, he'll put some in prison and kill some...and on and on...

No, he is most definitely NOT currently bound.

Remember Job? Satan appeared before God and God allowed satan to harm Job and mess with his life. Nothing has changed except that through Christ we can overcome him until Christ puts him in a pit for a 1000 years and then kills him.

IN regards to an actual 1000 years...don't you find it odd that it has been nearly a literal 2000 years since Christ was born? Scripture symbolically points to Christ return on the morning of the 3rd day (Exodus 19 & Good Samaritan parable as well as when Christ rose). God also gave the pattern of 7 days, with the 7th being a day of rest. Do you think all of that was just arbitrary and coincidence?


PS: Yes, there are actual pits in the spiritual world where angels are kept for the day of judgment:

2Pe 2:4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;


Jud 1:6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home-these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

But he IS bound in the life of the believer. For Christ is reigning now as Rev 1:5 states.

These things you speak of are symbolic imagery - it is a grave mistake to take them and use them literally.

 

[ScottBot]

Doesn't this belong in the Dispensationalist forums? The literal 1000 year reign of Christ is not a belief that is widely held in Christianity, but is a staple for Dispensationalists.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Doesn't this belong in the Dispensationalist forums? The literal 1000 year reign of Christ is not a belief that is widely held in Christianity, but is a staple for Dispensationalists.

NOOOOOO!!!!! That is like assigning it to the "graveyard"
They think 1948 fulfilled biblical prophecies!!!

A lot of Christians do not even know what Dispensationalism is anyway, and from what I see, it is a dying fad anyway [look how many post over there LOL]

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving/hxousin <2240> (5692) days upon thee and thy enemies shall be about-casting upon thee seige-works/caraka <5482> to thee and they shall be about-compassing/peri-kuklwsousin <4033> (5692) thee, and they shall be pressing thee every-which-place

Reve 15:4 Any not no may be fearing Lord! And shall be glorifying Thy name, that only benign that all the Nations shall be arriving/hxousin <2240> (5692) and they shall be worshipping in sight of Thee, that the just awards of Thee were made manifest.

 

[garry2]

In fact, in the literal section at the very beginning of Revelation, before the "revelation" part starts, John clearly states that Jesus is reigning over the kings of the earth NOW! Rev 1:5

And this was at the time he wrote this 1900 years ago - so Jesus has been the one reigning for 2000 years!

His reign is NOW, not future.

He is reigning now in beleivers, and future over all creation.

 

[garry2]

Revelation 20 is not symbolic it is literal, and hasn't happened yet.

Read this chapter and it becomes obvious that it is as it says.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

there has never been a time yet when the nations were not deceived for a thousand years, it is yet to come.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This resurrection has not occured yet, but it will, God said so.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is all Literal and true, not symbolic.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Another option that is needed has to do with the issue that there is no literal 1000 years period. It is symbolic. The poll really needs to make room for those who do not believe in a literal 1000 year period in order to include us.

Jesus was LITERALLY, ACTUALLY, REALLY born 2000 years ago. (2 days on God's calendar)

There is symbolism in the Bible that says that Jesus returns on the morning of the 3rd day.

Luk 10:33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
Luk 10:34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
Luk 10:35 The next day he took out two silver coins[fn5] (TWO DENARII = two days wages in those days) and gave them to the innkeeper. &#8216;Look after him,&#8217; he said, &#8216;and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.&#8217;



Jesus, in the role of the Samaritan, expected to be gone for two days.

Exd 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, &#8220;Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. (two days) Have them wash their clothes
Exd 19:11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
Exd 19:12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, &#8216;Be careful that you do not go up the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.
Exd 19:13 He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.&#8217; Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain.&#8221;
Exd 19:14 After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes.
Exd 19:15 Then he said to the people, &#8220;Prepare yourselves for the third day. Abstain from sexual relations.&#8221;
Exd 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.



This is what we are expecting with Jesus (in the role of Moses) who consecrates anyone who believes in Him for the past 2000 years (2 days).



Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

&#8220;Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.&#8221;

Rev 7:11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 saying:

&#8220;Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!&#8221;

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, &#8220;These in white robes&#8211;who are they, and where did they come from?&#8221;
Rev 7:14 I answered, &#8220;Sir, you know.&#8221;
And he said, &#8220;These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.




Anyone who has washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb is a believer in Christ. SO how long have people been washing their robes and consecrated by Christ? 2000 years (two days - just like the people in Exodus 19 above with Moses)

Not to mention how Jesus rose on the morning of the 3rd day....

Here's Israel speaking:

Hsa 6:2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.

It is in process as we speak.


7000 years (7 days) are determined for this whole thing before the New heavens/new earth. The 7th day is a Sabbath prior to the 8th day.

There is indeed a millenium, an actual 1000 years, of Christ's physical reign coming up.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

But he IS bound in the life of the believer. For Christ is reigning now as Rev 1:5 states.

These things you speak of are symbolic imagery - it is a grave mistake to take them and use them literally.

Yes, of course.

But to disregard the millenium as something else and not as a literal 1000 years is to disregard God's plan for this earth and this age....as demonstrated in the scriptures I quoted in my previous post.