Long Hair on Men...The Big Deal?

[Quoth]

I have what most men in my parents' SBC church in Colorado consider "long hair." When I visit that church (which is about once a month), I dress appropriately and keep my hair tied back in a neat, clean pony tail. I simply wrap a very subtle black band around the lock of hair I pull back.

I've had several of the men threaten to cut the ponytail off, to the point where some will walk up to me with their pocket knives drawn. They're halfway joking, but I can tell that it bugs them. Why is that?

 

[BBAS 64]

I have what most men in my parents' SBC church in Colorado consider "long hair." When I visit that church (which is about once a month), I dress appropriately and keep my hair tied back in a neat, clean pony tail. I simply wrap a very subtle black band around the lock of hair I pull back.

I've had several of the men threaten to cut the ponytail off, to the point where some will walk up to me with their pocket knives drawn. They're halfway joking, but I can tell that it bugs them. Why is that?

Good Day, BlackFrye

Maybe it could be like me I am a 40 something who loved his long hair of the younger years. Life being what it is I have less and less hair every year it seems.

Forget the long hair, just give me hair....


Have you asked them?

In Him,

Bill

 

[jive4005]

If you HAVE hair... flaunt it!
It'll be gone sooner than you think. Those other idiots are just jealous!!!

rev

ps: this is a comb-over prohibited zone!

 

[MrJim]

tell 'em it's a Nazarite vow

Joking or not some guy anywhere pulls a knife and there's going to be trouble...it's like Bill said, confront them about it. They are going to pull out the Corinthian verse about men having short hair or something and if they do, ask them if their women are wearing coverings...

 

[TexasSky]

Maybe they are jealous?

 

[david01]

Good point about the I Corinthians 11 passage. Baptists, among most other churches, are total hypocrites when it comes to that passage. If the passage is true, then women ought to cover their glory (long hair) and men ought to leave their short hair uncovered. If that passage (not to mention myriads of other passages we would not like to believe) is merely cultural, let it grow, let it grow, let it grow.

 

[RED that's ME]

A lot of people in the Baptist church, do use 1 Corinthians 11 passage as the reason for a man not having long hair. It's a teaching they grew up with.
I seriously doubt you will change their minds. You might ask if having short hair makes them a better Christian in God's eyes. God sees the heart while others sees only the outside. There's a lot of people sitting in church on the front pew with nice suits, just the right haircut, smelling good but the inside is stinking big time in God's eyes.
It's not just Baptists that thinks a certain look meets God's expectations.
When my mom was a teen she told me she went to play for a wedding at a good friend's wedding. The Church of God pastor's wife made a comment loudly in front of the group that women who wore makeup was going to hell out of the blue. My mom being a Baptist wearing makeup was hurt but knew that women had her doctrine totally wrong that wasn't scriptural.

 

[TwistTim]

Yeah, but does the Bible in 2 Corinthians say it's a sin for a man to have long hair? no, it says in nature(it's safe to assume the natural world of that day, as that would be nature) it's a shame... not a sin.... how many of them are overfed gluttons who are clearly breaking one of the deadly sins yet will criticize someone for a "shameful" thing that doesn't matter.... when I had a goatee I had a few guys offer me a razor to cut it off... I shaved it off, of my own volition because keeping it trimmed right is a hassle not to appease them.....
and now that I have longer hair, I can only imagine when I go to church what the reaction will be.... if there is a peep about it being wrong, I will ask them to remove all their sins and stop passing judgment on a Christian for a thing of no consequence that's a shame.....then if they still don't like how my hair is, fine, but if after some self evaluation, they find their in the wrong, also fine. I need a new church, cause I can see this happening there.....

 

[MrJim]

A lot of people in the Baptist church, do use 1 Corinthians 11 passage as the reason for a man not having long hair. It's a teaching they grew up with.
I seriously doubt you will change their minds. You might ask if having short hair makes them a better Christian in God's eyes. God sees the heart while others sees only the outside. There's a lot of people sitting in church on the front pew with nice suits, just the right haircut, smelling good but the inside is stinking big time in God's eyes.
It's not just Baptists that thinks a certain look meets God's expectations.
When my mom was a teen she told me she went to play for a wedding at a good friend's wedding. The Church of God pastor's wife made a comment loudly in front of the group that women who wore makeup was going to hell out of the blue. My mom being a Baptist wearing makeup was hurt but knew that women had her doctrine totally wrong that wasn't scriptural.

hey Red

 

[Canuckmom]

I have what most men in my parents' SBC church in Colorado consider "long hair." When I visit that church (which is about once a month), I dress appropriately and keep my hair tied back in a neat, clean pony tail. I simply wrap a very subtle black band around the lock of hair I pull back.

I've had several of the men threaten to cut the ponytail off, to the point where some will walk up to me with their pocket knives drawn. They're halfway joking, but I can tell that it bugs them. Why is that?

Here's part of what the Baptist theologian John Gill has commented on the subject

ICor.11 Ver. 14. Doth not even nature itself teach you[SIZE=+1],.... By nature is either meant, the law and light of nature, reason in man, common sense, or rather custom, which is second nature; and which, in this case, must be restrained to the Greeks and Jews; for though among the Grecians the men cut their hair, and did not suffer it to grow long, as also did the Jews, yet there were many nations {k} who did not, even at that time, observe such a rule or custom; but as the Jews and Greeks were the persons chiefly, if not solely, known to the Corinthians, the apostle signifies, that the usages of these people might direct and inform them in this matter:

[SIZE=+1]that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him[/SIZE]; he looks unmanly and womanish, and exposes himself to ridicule and contempt.


1 Corinthians 11:15

Ver. 15. But if a woman have long hair,.... And wears it, without cutting it, as men do:

it is a glory to her; it is comely and beautiful; it is agreeable to her sex, she looks like herself; it becomes and adorns her:
end Gill's quote http://www.freegrace.net/gill/[/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]To me a man with long hair looks effeminate and a woman with super short hair looks masculine. I believe the headcovering in 1Cor. 11 is a covering besides the hair, therefore I always cover my head with a cloth covering when I go to church. And hey, I'm well aware this certainly doesn't make me a better Christian; it's true the Lord sees what's in the heart, but what's on the outside is often an indication of what's inside. - it's really a matter of obedience - If you love me, keep my commandments John. 14:15[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]I believe God doesn't want the distinction between the sexes to be blurred. He made the sexes different, but complimentary, and the modern unisex styles of hair and dress are meant to wipe out the distinctions between the sexes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Of course if any preacher has the courage to stand up and insist all the ladies ought to have their heads covered if the men have to have short hair .... he may suffer the wrath of the feminists in his congregation and be called a "legalist" to boot.
[/SIZE]

 

[MrJim]

Here's part of what the Baptist theologian John Gill has commented on the subject

ICor.11 Ver. 14. Doth not even nature itself teach you[SIZE=+1],.... By nature is either meant, the law and light of nature, reason in man, common sense, or rather custom, which is second nature; and which, in this case, must be restrained to the Greeks and Jews; for though among the Grecians the men cut their hair, and did not suffer it to grow long, as also did the Jews, yet there were many nations {k} who did not, even at that time, observe such a rule or custom; but as the Jews and Greeks were the persons chiefly, if not solely, known to the Corinthians, the apostle signifies, that the usages of these people might direct and inform them in this matter:

[SIZE=+1]that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him[/SIZE]; he looks unmanly and womanish, and exposes himself to ridicule and contempt.


1 Corinthians 11:15

Ver. 15. But if a woman have long hair,.... And wears it, without cutting it, as men do:

it is a glory to her; it is comely and beautiful; it is agreeable to her sex, she looks like herself; it becomes and adorns her:
end Gill's quote http://www.freegrace.net/gill/[/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]To me a man with long hair looks effeminate and a woman with super short hair looks masculine. I believe the headcovering in 1Cor. 11 is a covering besides the hair, therefore I always cover my head with a cloth covering when I go to church. And hey, I'm well aware this certainly doesn't make me a better Christian; it's true the Lord sees what's in the heart, but what's on the outside is often an indication of what's inside. - it's really a matter of obedience - If you love me, keep my commandments John. 14:15[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]I believe God doesn't want the distinction between the sexes to be blurred. He made the sexes different, but complimentary, and the modern unisex styles of hair and dress are meant to wipe out the distinctions between the sexes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Of course if any preacher has the courage to stand up and insist all the ladies ought to have their heads covered if the men have to have short hair .... he may suffer the wrath of the feminists in his congregation and be called a "legalist" to boot.
[/SIZE]

great post~especially coming from a sister.

 

[Quoth]

The way I see it is this:

Yes, the verse in 1 Corinthians says that men shouldn't have long hair. However, I do this as a cultural preference and not an absolute commandment. In various cultures, the men have long hair, the women have short hair, and in some cultures it's okay to have a 3-inch pig bone in your nose.

It's a matter of cultural preference. Doesn't make us any better or worse as a Christian, depending on our motives for it. I have long hair because I think it looks good. No other reason. I'm comfortable with it, and if someone has a problem with it, I have a solution:

I walk away.

 

[MrJim]

The way I see it is this:

Yes, the verse in 1 Corinthians says that men shouldn't have long hair. However, I do this as a cultural preference and not an absolute commandment. In various cultures, the men have long hair, the women have short hair, and in some cultures it's okay to have a 3-inch pig bone in your nose.

It's a matter of cultural preference. Doesn't make us any better or worse as a Christian, depending on our motives for it. I have long hair because I think it looks good. No other reason. I'm comfortable with it, and if someone has a problem with it, I have a solution:

I walk away.

Coming from a mennonite background I hear from their liberal side that this passage is "culturally bound"...are there any other NT passages we deal with that are issues of culture presented as binding scripture that we can ignore or spiritualize?

I remember reading RC Sproul, he said his wife covers too...he said something to the effect that he'd rather be safe than sorry on a passage like 1 Cor 11.

 

[TwistTim]

Coming from a mennonite background I hear from their liberal side that this passage is "culturally bound"...are there any other NT passages we deal with that are issues of culture presented as binding scripture that we can ignore or spiritualize?

I remember reading RC Sproul, he said his wife covers too...he said something to the effect that he'd rather be safe than sorry on a passage like 1 Cor 11.

There's that possibility or..... we keep reading the passage and see what else it says there.......context context context.....

1 Corithians 11:13-16, NASB

13(A)Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
15but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
16But if one is inclined to be contentious, (B)we have no other practice, nor have (C)the churches of God.



Verse 16 is the key to understanding this passage and is often left off the discourse on it.


It is indeed referring to the Natural Customs of the People of that day, the Greeks and Jews, mainly the Greeks, if you study warfare you know the Greeks were always clean shaven and had short hair... so they couldn't be pulled by their beards and caught by their hair while trying to run in the heat of battle. That was their Custom, and not something that is expected of Christians..... "Then we have no such law" and the Women's Hair Coverings... From what I can find, it would appear that this was more a cloth that went over the top of the head and draped down the shoulders and over them down towards the torso when a woman stood upright, as opposed to a hat....

 

[MrJim]

There's that possibility or..... we keep reading the passage and see what else it says there.......context context context.....

1 Corithians 11:13-16, NASB

13(A)Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
15but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
16But if one is inclined to be contentious, (B)we have no other practice, nor have (C)the churches of God.



Verse 16 is the key to understanding this passage and is often left off the discourse on it.


It is indeed referring to the Natural Customs of the People of that day, the Greeks and Jews, mainly the Greeks, if you study warfare you know the Greeks were always clean shaven and had short hair... so they couldn't be pulled by their beards and caught by their hair while trying to run in the heat of battle. That was their Custom, and not something that is expected of Christians..... "Then we have no such law" and the Women's Hair Coverings... From what I can find, it would appear that this was more a cloth that went over the top of the head and draped down the shoulders and over them down towards the torso when a woman stood upright, as opposed to a hat....

That is the explaination the liberal mennonites give~i don't buy it myself-Paul's passage speaks of natural order and angels and not local customs, and I would read v. 16 the other way -if you want to be contenious about it, we have NO OTHER practice nor have the Churches of God...in other words, this is how we do it whether you like it or not.

Context is a funny thing, if this is a cultural issue then perhaps the very next passage in the same chapter is just for that time too, except I bet your church still practices communion But there are churches that don't practice communion on this very same principle.

 

[jive4005]

I'm pretty certain that when Christ leveled the playing field (jew-nonjew, slave-freeman, male-female, rich-poor,etc) that would also include hairstyles.

rev

 

[MrJim]

I'm pretty certain that when Christ leveled the playing field (jew-nonjew, slave-freeman, male-female, rich-poor,etc) that would also include hairstyles.

rev

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Long Hair on Men...The Big Deal?

I have what most men in my parents' SBC church in Colorado consider "long hair." When I visit that church (which is about once a month), I dress appropriately and keep my hair tied back in a neat, clean pony tail. I simply wrap a very subtle black band around the lock of hair I pull back.

I've had several of the men threaten to cut the ponytail off, to the point where some will walk up to me with their pocket knives drawn. They're halfway joking, but I can tell that it bugs them. Why is that?

Whether or not it is a big deal for a Christian man to wear his hair long can easily be determined by considering whether Paul mentions it only is passing or if he presents an exceptionally strong case against it. And in 1 Cor. 11:1-16,

1. Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
2. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.
3. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
4. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.
5. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.
6. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.
7. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
8. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
9. for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
10. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
11. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
12. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.
13. Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14. Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
15. but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
16. But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

Paul very carefully presents an exceptionally strong case against the practice of some men having their head covered when they pray and women not covering their head when they pray. Indeed, Paul presents a stronger case against these practices than he does against any other practices in the church other than the misuse of the spiritual gifts. And in the case before us Paul explicitly tells us why the issue is so extremely important—“Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.”

According to Paul’s very carefully structured argument, the practice of some men having their head covered when they pray and women not covering their head when they pray makes a mockery of this foundational New Testament truth. In the course of his argument, he twice uses the Greek word καταισχυνει meaning disgraces, brings shame to, or dishonors (see the many uses of this word in the Greek New Testament) telling us that it is wrong, a sin, for a Christian to do such a thing. As his argument progresses, he writes in verse 12 that such a practice violates a basic principle taught in the Old Testament and writes in verse 14 that such a practice violates a truth taught by nature. In closing his argument, he writes in verse 16 of those contentious persons who choose to ignore both a basic principle taught in the Old Testament and a truth taught by nature and writes that “we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God,” but to yield to both a basic principle taught in the Old Testament and a truth taught by nature.

The structure, force, and documentation that Paul uses in his argument in 1 Cor. 1. 1-16 absolutely rules out any possibility whatsoever that this was a just a local, cultural issue. Indeed the structure, force, and documentation that Paul uses in his argument in 1 Cor. 1. 1-16 make it expressly clear that this is a universal issue of paramount importance, an issue of paramount importance that only in the last several decades has been very widely ignored by the Church. Indeed, I very clearly remember watching newsreel footage filmed during World War II in the United States of prayer meetings held during the lunch hour in defense plants, and in this footage it shows the women, as they enter the room for prayer, picking up a prayer bonnet from a box by the door and putting it on their heads before beginning to pray.

The length of hair worn by men and women is an integral part of Paul’s argument in 1 Cor. 1. 1-16 and anyone who argues that it does not really matter whether or not a Christian man wears his hair long is, therefore, necessarily arguing against both a basic principle taught in the Old Testament and a truth taught by nature. Even more seriously, he is arguing against the fundamental New Testament principle that “Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.’

 

[MbiaJc]

That is the explaination the liberal mennonites give~i don't buy it myself-Paul's passage speaks of natural order and angels and not local customs, and I would read v. 16 the other way -if you want to be contenious about it, we have NO OTHER practice nor have the Churches of God...in other words, this is how we do it whether you like it or not.

Context is a funny thing, if this is a cultural issue then perhaps the very next passage in the same chapter is just for that time too, except I bet your church still practices communion But there are churches that don't practice communion on this very same principle.

Hi brother Jim:
Some think God is that narrow minded.................
They completely overlook the real reason, that being because of the Angles. Because the Angles are verry interested in man, I think because some of them left their first estate. And they won't to see if man is going to do the same......................

 

[BigNorsk]

I've seen the preaching against long hair take place while this picture was hanging on the wall.