Your challenge was solved in the first post. It was pointed out that the question you posed was loaded - it presumed that the perfect car could be wrecked. That's all there is to it.
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Are Creationists Afraid of Debate?
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AV1611VET, I know that you know what "omnipotent" means. I shouldn't need to define it for you. And I also know that you know that the inability to be wrecked doesn't qualify as omnipotence.
Or perhaps I'm mistaken. Maybe you don't know what "omnipotent" means. Do you, AV1611VET?
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Then I contend that God's perfect Creation can be (and was) wrecked as well; through no fault of His own.
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And we contend that you're wrong. You haven't defined perfect in any meaningful fashion, and in the opinion of many of us, if something is actually perfect it would not be able to be destroyed.
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From: http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41828657&postcount=1
From: http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41848794&postcount=9
Kind of an interest set of quotes there.
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Let me get this straight, Dannager. If we define "perfect" sans omnipotent, then the answer to my challenge is: it's my fault? But if we define "perfect" as including omnipotence, then the answer to my challenge is: it's your fault?
Are you trying to tell me that the fault lies with the definition of "perfect," and not with the one who actually wrecked the car???
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Yes.
Nope, it's still your fault.
Nope, fault lies with the person who falsely advertised an imperfect car as perfect.
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Does it matter? Let's go with "without defect," and see where that takes us.
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But Jesus would have been a worse Jesus if he hadn't been damaged in that way, would he not? Surely he had to go through those things for your salvation. In which case, if he couldn't, he wouldn't be any good at saving humankind, which was his main purpose, so I gather.
A car's purpose is to get you from one place to another, and if you can wreck a car, it stops being able to accomplish that purpose.
Anyway, why don't you take my perfect car challenge. If I create a perfect car, and a perfect car driver (or car "steward" if you want to use the biblical term) and the driver/steward wrecks the car, would you blame me or the steward?
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Yes! That's why so many people asked you what you meant by "perfect car" in the original thread.
If it's just an ordinary car that's in pristine condition, I'd say the fault lies with whoever wrecked it.
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TemperateSeaIsland
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi
OK...
Well looking at the original challenge
There is no fault, You gave me the car I can do whatever I want with it without consequence.
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Why leave the driver out of the analogy? The analogy is not apposite if you have only the car being created by one agent and not also the driver who subsequently wrecks it.
And I didn't claim my analogy was inappropriate - I said yours was because of what it leaves out.
PS My analogy, I can put in it whoever I please and have things made by whoever I please. You don't have exclusive rights to use analogies...
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Vene
In memory of ChordatesLegacy
It helps when you use words correctly. Perfect is a state that cannot be improved. If there is a 'perfect' car that can be wrecked it can be improved by making it impervious to damage. Therefore the 'perfect' car is not perfect. As for as a car without defect, that is nothing special. Unless you're admitting that our 'perfect' little world never was perfect. Doesn't your god proclaim that his work is "good" in genesis, not "perfect?" An omnipotent being could easily have built a perfect world, but nope, we got ripped off.
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