• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Idols and False Notions have Taken Deep Root

Is Adam being specially created and our first parent essential doctrine?

  • Yes, directly tied to the Gospel and original sin.

  • No, Adam is just a mythical symbol for humanity

  • Yes and No (elaborate at will)

  • Neither yes or not (suggest another alternative)


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Since many evangelicals are TEs, your statement here is flawed.

So are many atheists, what's your point?

No proof offered.

I've been through the science and the Scripture and both are telling me apes and humans have separate lineages.

Furthermore, this is not an accurate view of the nature of science. It is therefore invalid.

You don't have the slightest interest in science or theology do you?
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Heh. One thing we can be absolutely sure of is that the scriptures are not "detailed and meticulous" in their presentation of history. Each story is told for a particular purpose, and large swaths of information are left unsaid - to the imagination.

Notice that nothing tangible is offered here to support this statement. Just vague generalities, that is the ambiguity that led me to reject TE as a nonchristian secular philosophy. It's kind of like the Pentecostal/charismatic experience, they may well be New Testament Christians but the gibberish they are talking in is not New Testament tongues.

Some scientists do. Christian scientists, and TE's, are not and do not. The singular fact that we agree on the science does not mean we agree with their non-scientific conclusions about the spiritual. We are on the same side of that battle that you are on, Mark, like it or not.

Somehow that intrigues me since I have not thought of this as a battle for a couple of years now. They are uniform in their rejection of the supernatural and that includes everything in the New Testament. I have not seen a single exception and the TOE campaign has an unmistakable desperation to it.

There will be plenty of revelations to come in biological science that will cause us to question who we are, why we believe, and what makes us what we are. TE's are already anticipating and addressing these questions. They won't go away by screaming "LA LA LA" with your hands over your ears.

I just can't wait for them to publish something more on genomics. It's slowly stating to come into view for me with a couple of the pieces still missing. As a philosophy TOE is clearly antithesitic and always has been. I have studied the Bible as history and over the last few years, considered it as a primer for science.

It was just an intellectual exercise for a while that amused me. Now I actually think there are actual intellectual tools that can be built from Creationism. Creationism is a capstone for me, first the historicity of the Gospel accounts, then Acts, later the Old Testament and along the way Revelations. Finally, when I was pretty sure I had it all worked out this whole business of Creationism comes up and I think I have the last piece of the puzzle.

I just spar in these debates for a past time, what I really needed all along was a metaphysical paradigm diametrically opposed to Biblical theism. It turns out it was Darwin, I was expecting something a lot more reptilian then ole flycatcher but he'll do.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So are many atheists, what's your point?

1. How can an Atheist be a TE when Atheism isn't theistic?
2. The point is, you made an erronous claim that equate evangelical Christianity with YECism. That simply isn't true. If that truly is your premise, then your argument falls apart right away

I've been through the science and the Scripture and both are telling me apes and humans have separate lineages.

What does that have to do with your claim?

You don't have the slightest interest in science or theology do you?

Don't agree with you, so I have no interest?

I can see you don't have an interest in logic. :)

Unfortunately for you, I minored in religious studies and I spent most of my undergrad studies in history stressing Christianity, including taking classes that directly taught the subject. I have spent more than 10 years in independent and professional study of Christian theology and did so only because I wanted to make sure I joined a church that I could logically conclude was the fullest and truest expression of the Apostolic Catholicism of the Early Christians.

As for science, I always aced the astronomy, climatology, and meteorology units and have always done well in biology and did surprisingly well (even to myself) in college chemistry. I continue to be fascinated in those subjects and avidly take time to learn more from reasonable sources.

Now would you like to address the topic at hand again or shall we focus on me a little more (and thus go Ad Hom)?
 
Upvote 0

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
You don't have the slightest interest in science or theology do you?
Sadly, no matter how many Nature journals, Scriptures, or Polkinghorne books you cite, every conversation with mark ends this way, PaladinValer. No matter your education or qualifications, you are simply not as interested or as learned as mark in any subject. It's simply best not to encourage him, lest you put up with more of his disdainfulness.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Sadly, no matter how many Nature journals, Scriptures, or Polkinghorne books you cite, every conversation with mark ends this way, PaladinValer.

I've noticed! ;)

No matter your education or qualifications, you are simply not as interested or as learned as mark in any subject. It's simply best not to encourage him, lest you put up with more of his disdainfulness.

"Blessed are..." :)
 
Upvote 0

shernren

you are not reading this.
Feb 17, 2005
8,463
515
38
Shah Alam, Selangor
Visit site
✟33,881.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
Right after I had said this:

I wonder if you've ever known what I really believed. I'm the same person who posted this six months ago:

shernren said:
I'm frustrated by the inherently anti-supernaturalist attitude that Peacocke (and others, I suspect) bring to the table. I am not willing to accept a priori that miracles are off-limits from the start - to abandon the horse-sense of the Scripture simply to look good to the elite.

I wish you could sit in on the classes in church I used to give on Luke and Acts. I'm fiercely proud of Luke's attention to historical detail - right down to noting that Jesus' genealogy was supposed. ;)

Tell me where, in any of my posts, have I ever been anti-supernaturalist. Indeed, I have made myself explicitly clear on my position towards miracles and science here.

mark states:

Which can only mean you discarded the supernatural elements of your faith.

and has to ask:

Then come off of it, the supernatural mentions in the New Testament are history. Right or wrong?

Look here, mark.

I explicitly stated that I was fed up with the anti-supernaturalism of contemporary theologians.

Your reply explicitly accused me of anti-supernaturalism and asked me if I accepted the miracles of the New Testament as history.

Obviously I accept the miracles of the New Testament as history.

I have explicitly stated before, multiple times, that I accept in particular the resurrection of Jesus Christ as absolute historical fact.

I challenged you to quote me on even one occasion when I displayed anti-supernaturalist bias. You were not able to give me even a single quote. And yet in the opening of your post you explicitly declared me an anti-supernaturalist. I believe saying something about a fellow Christian without evidence is not good, is it?

As for PaladinValer's list of six questions:

To the TEs reading this, please answer these questions:

1. Do you believe in the Nicene Creed?
2. Do you believe that Christ died for all sins, original and actual?
3. Do you believe that, due to an event far ago in the prehistoric past, humanity Fell?
4. Do you believe that, from this Fall, humanity has been "broken" so that we are unable to be fully good and have a pure and wholly innocent conscience, will, and nature?
5. Do you believe that it is only by Christ's Grace that we were healed, are being healed, and will be healed of our imperfections that we "inherited" (for a lack of a better term) from the Fall?
6. Do you believe therefore that the Bible speaks the truth in that humanity Fell, Christ died for humanity's sins and for the healing of humanity's souls and nature, and that Christ is therefore infact a Second Adam?

Let's see how things turn out. As for me, I affirm "yes" to all six queries.

I wholeheartedly affirm "yes" to all six.

Now, mark, what do you say to these questions?

I find that conversations with mark tend to stray, because of the way he quotes me. Therefore, I will simply pose two (compound) questions to mark, and I expect any post he makes in reply to this post to be completely composed of coherent answers to those two questions. He can quote my post as supporting material in that, but any direct answer to any part of this post on its own will be considered off-topic by me. I believe this is fair enough because every part of this post so far has concerned any one of these two questions, and thus mark can answer to any of those parts within the rubric of answering the appropriate question.

Question 1.
Do you accept that I affirm the supernatural events of the New Testament as history? In fact, I affirm the supernatural events of the Old Testament outside the Pentateuch as history as well; I am currently considering my position on the Pentateuch as history, given certain details outside Genesis (such as that the 603 thousand Jewish men given in the Pentateuch would have taken several days to cross the Red Sea at any reasonable pace). Do you accept that? Do you admit that you cannot directly cite any statements of mine which are explicitly anti-supernaturalist?

And if so, do you accept that you cannot impeach my theology on the charge of anti-supernaturalism alone?

Question 2.
Do you answer "yes" to all questions on the list of six that was posed by PaladinValer? If so, do you acknowledge that this constitutes considerable mutual agreement between you and the TEs who have answered "yes"?

Do you believe that any individual answering "yes" to those six questions, and lives a life in accordance with such answers, does in fact believe in a complete and completely biblical gospel?
 
Upvote 0

busterdog

Senior Veteran
Jun 20, 2006
3,359
183
Visit site
✟26,929.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Notice that nothing tangible is offered here to support this statement. Just vague generalities, that is the ambiguity that led me to reject TE as a nonchristian secular philosophy. It's kind of like the Pentecostal/charismatic experience, they may well be New Testament Christians but the gibberish they are talking in is not New Testament tongues.



Somehow that intrigues me since I have not thought of this as a battle for a couple of years now. They are uniform in their rejection of the supernatural and that includes everything in the New Testament. I have not seen a single exception and the TOE campaign has an unmistakable desperation to it.



I just can't wait for them to publish something more on genomics. It's slowly stating to come into view for me with a couple of the pieces still missing. As a philosophy TOE is clearly antithesitic and always has been. I have studied the Bible as history and over the last few years, considered it as a primer for science.

It was just an intellectual exercise for a while that amused me. Now I actually think there are actual intellectual tools that can be built from Creationism. Creationism is a capstone for me, first the historicity of the Gospel accounts, then Acts, later the Old Testament and along the way Revelations. Finally, when I was pretty sure I had it all worked out this whole business of Creationism comes up and I think I have the last piece of the puzzle.

I just spar in these debates for a past time, what I really needed all along was a metaphysical paradigm diametrically opposed to Biblical theism. It turns out it was Darwin, I was expecting something a lot more reptilian then ole flycatcher but he'll do.

Mark, you are doing just fine.

For the last year, I mostly what I see is people trying to distract you from your topic and then sniff at you for not wanting to be distracted from your evidence.

You are doing just fine.

I would love to see some respect shown for your scholarship and beliefs.
 
Upvote 0

artybloke

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
5,222
456
67
North of England
✟8,017.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Politics
UK-Labour
I would love to see some respect shown for your scholarship and beliefs.

I would love to see him provide proof of any scholarship. So far, all he's provided is a materialist, scientistic interpretation of scripture and a lot of unscientific hot air.
 
Upvote 0

shernren

you are not reading this.
Feb 17, 2005
8,463
515
38
Shah Alam, Selangor
Visit site
✟33,881.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
Mark, you are doing just fine.

For the last year, I mostly what I see is people trying to distract you from your topic and then sniff at you for not wanting to be distracted from your evidence.

You are doing just fine.

I would love to see some respect shown for your scholarship and beliefs.

I have seen him accuse me of anti-supernaturalism in direct reply to a post of mine which explicitly denounces anti-supernaturalism.

I would love to see some respect shown, fullstop.
 
Upvote 0

Melethiel

Miserere mei, Domine
Site Supporter
Jun 8, 2005
27,287
940
35
Ohio
✟99,593.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Mark, you are doing just fine.

For the last year, I mostly what I see is people trying to distract you from your topic and then sniff at you for not wanting to be distracted from your evidence.

You are doing just fine.

I would love to see some respect shown for your scholarship and beliefs.
I would love to see him show some respect for our beliefs (or some respect for us, period). Or are you also going to go around claiming that TEs are pseudo-Christians, heretical, wolves in sheeps clothing, etc...?
 
Upvote 0

crawfish

Veteran
Feb 21, 2007
1,731
125
Way out in left field
✟25,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Notice that nothing tangible is offered here to support this statement. Just vague generalities, that is the ambiguity that led me to reject TE as a nonchristian secular philosophy. It's kind of like the Pentecostal/charismatic experience, they may well be New Testament Christians but the gibberish they are talking in is not New Testament tongues.

It should be pretty obvious to anybody that the Bible is an incomplete historical account. Large swaths of time are left undocumented.

If the Bible was a complete scientific and historical manual, the YEC's wouldn't have to go to so much trouble to fill in the holes.

Somehow that intrigues me since I have not thought of this as a battle for a couple of years now. They are uniform in their rejection of the supernatural and that includes everything in the New Testament. I have not seen a single exception and the TOE campaign has an unmistakable desperation to it.

Every....single...thing a scientist has said to use ToE as proof against God has been OUTSIDE THE REALM OF SCIENCE. The battle is with anti-God atheism, not with ToE. Nothing in ToE indicates that there is no God behind it all.

I just can't wait for them to publish something more on genomics. It's slowly stating to come into view for me with a couple of the pieces still missing. As a philosophy TOE is clearly antithesitic and always has been. I have studied the Bible as history and over the last few years, considered it as a primer for science.

It was just an intellectual exercise for a while that amused me. Now I actually think there are actual intellectual tools that can be built from Creationism. Creationism is a capstone for me, first the historicity of the Gospel accounts, then Acts, later the Old Testament and along the way Revelations. Finally, when I was pretty sure I had it all worked out this whole business of Creationism comes up and I think I have the last piece of the puzzle.

I just spar in these debates for a past time, what I really needed all along was a metaphysical paradigm diametrically opposed to Biblical theism. It turns out it was Darwin, I was expecting something a lot more reptilian then ole flycatcher but he'll do.

If there are intellectual tools to be built from creationism, then by all means, publish. The vast majority of creationism is anti-intellectual, anti-thinking and reactionary.
 
Upvote 0

crawfish

Veteran
Feb 21, 2007
1,731
125
Way out in left field
✟25,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I would love to see him show some respect for our beliefs (or some respect for us, period). Or are you also going to go around claiming that TEs are pseudo-Christians, heretical, wolves in sheeps clothing, etc...?
Nothing disturbs me more about Mark's comments than his "grace-plus" theology.

p.s. Sorry for referring to you in the third person, Mark.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
It should be pretty obvious to anybody that the Bible is an incomplete historical account. Large swaths of time are left undocumented.

The largest swath covered in redemptive history is Genesis. In spans thousands of years and only the first 11 chapters cover events. Referred to as the generations of Adam and Noah the central focus is genealogical leading up to the call of Abraham. Abraham, Issac, Jacob (aka Israel) and Joseph occupy the bulk of the narrative . Why should we concern ourselves with the things that remain incomplete when the revelation right in front of us is ignored, marginalized or dismissed as figurative?

If the Bible was a complete scientific and historical manual, the YEC's wouldn't have to go to so much trouble to fill in the holes.

It is history, it's redemptive history and it is complete in Christ alone. Genesis is the beginning of the generations of humanity, I didn't write it and there is not need of a private interpretation to get that from the clear language of the text.

Every....single...thing a scientist has said to use ToE as proof against God has been OUTSIDE THE REALM OF SCIENCE. The battle is with anti-God atheism, not with ToE. Nothing in ToE indicates that there is no God behind it all.

And every scientists that advocates TOE as natural history is deeply and permanently committed to opposing special creation. As an example:

Louis Leaky spent his entire carrier attacking the religious conviction of 'special creation'. Darwin's On the Origin of Species was itself just one long argument against it:

"You know you people at the National Geographic with your facilities and your ability to reach people-you must do something about the evolution of early man. You can't let those Bible people hold back the knowledge we're learning. It must be brought to the public. Promise me Mary you will look into this." (Ancestral Passions by Virginia Morrel)​

Louis Leaky had a big problem on his hands, the neat linear model of Darwinism could not demonstrate the anagenesis, or the:

"...the continual and gradual change of one parent species into its daughter species in a linear fashion...Some researchers feel that all species within the genus Homo should have characteristics, such as locomotor patterns, diet and body proportions, that make them more like modern humans than like the australopiths. These researchers feel that the characteristics of H. habilis and H. rudolfensis are more ape-like than modern, a conclusion that would remove them from our genus. The Homo habilis Debate

Our supposed ancestors all lived in the same place, Oldvuai, at the same time. Far from being a set back for Darwinism, it proved to be unbreakable:

George (Olduvai Hominid 16) had eroded out of the same geological levels as Homo habilis, making proto-Homo erectus, as Louis refered to this new species, a companion of Homo habilis as well as Australopithecus boisei. In Louis's eyes, only Homo habilis has led to modern humans, while Homo erectus and the australopithecines died out." (Ancestral Passions by Virginia Morrel)​

After a while this seems so obvious, the australopithecines did not die out, they evolved into modern apes. When faced with this obvious problem for the Darwinian universal ancestry model Louise said:

"Man developed just like the animals did with various species living side by side until the weaker died out or were annihilated leaving the stronger until eventually modern man emerged. Two million years ago, four species of giraffe had existed side by side at Olduvai, as well as six species of elephants and four kinds of pigs. Why shout there only be one line of man? It's a prejudice which comes from a religious attitude...that man was a special creation" (Ancestral Passions by Virginia Morrel)​

There have never been multiple human species, we remain one species while the chimpanzees have at least two as does the gorilla. What is even more telling is that thousands of hominid (human) ancestors fossils are dug up but next to none for our African ape cousins.

I do not get my science from Scripture nor do I expect anyone else will or does. I do not base my doctrinal position based on secular science nor should any Bible believing Christian.

If there are intellectual tools to be built from creationism, then by all means, publish. The vast majority of creationism is anti-intellectual, anti-thinking and reactionary.

No it's not, most Creationism is Christian ministry. By and large they simply publish essays, books and videos meant to encourage believers in the face of dramatic Darwinian attacks on their religious convictions. I don't know what you mean by publish but if you are talking about scientific journals don't hold your breath. It means absolutely nothing if Creationism offers an alternative to Darwinism or even how scientific it might be. Creationism and Intelligent Design is universally rejected in secular academics and scientific arenas based on naturalistic assumptions, not real world evidence.

Creationism has been dismissed without a hearing, much as justification by faith was in Europe at the dawn of the Reformation. Christians must reclaim their place in academia and affirm the Scriptures are redemptive history. I am convinced that compromise in this arena is intellectual suicide. To accept the Darwinian tree of life model is to make an a priori naturalistic assumption that special creation is a mythical fiction.

As for me, I will not have that kind of supposition in my scientific reasoning, my intellectual quests for detailed understanding and certainly not in my theology.

You decide based on the convictions of your own beliefs. If you decide TOE is compatible with Scripture like Louis Leaky did, go in peace I have no problem with you. Just don't poison sound doctrine with it because the New Testament writers were Creationists.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Mark, you are doing just fine.

For the last year, I mostly what I see is people trying to distract you from your topic and then sniff at you for not wanting to be distracted from your evidence.

You are doing just fine.

I would love to see some respect shown for your scholarship and beliefs.

Actually, the sincerest respect I receive in these discussions and debates is when they are completely silent about the evidence. It doesn't seem to matter if it's the Scriptures or scientific literature. There comes a point were they just get quiet and that silence speaks volumes.

By the way, I have some surprises lined up for the New Year. I've been so busy the last 18 months it's been hard to keep up with the reading and work that goes into good posts. Have a very happy holiday season and come and see what I have been cooking up for the new year.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Nothing disturbs me more about Mark's comments than his "grace-plus" theology.

What on earth is 'grace plus' ? It sounds repulsive.

p.s. Sorry for referring to you in the third person, Mark.

Sorry for having no clue what you are talking about since the statement concerns me personally.
 
Upvote 0

crawfish

Veteran
Feb 21, 2007
1,731
125
Way out in left field
✟25,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What on earth is 'grace plus' ? It sounds repulsive.


"Grace plus <insert name of the work here>". Meaning, there is more to salvation that God's grace. Certainly, God expects much from us, in terms of commitment - "If you love me, obey my commandments" - but nothing you do adds one whit to that grace. All have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.
 
Upvote 0

crawfish

Veteran
Feb 21, 2007
1,731
125
Way out in left field
✟25,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You decide based on the convictions of your own beliefs. If you decide TOE is compatible with Scripture like Louis Leaky did, go in peace I have no problem with you. Just don't poison sound doctrine with it because the New Testament writers were Creationists.

I have no idea who Louis Leaky is, so I really can't comment on that. All I know is, I cannot live a lie. There is just too much overwhelming evidence that a literal reading of the creation story does not reflect reality. OVERWHELMING evidence. You can choose to close your eyes, but don't poison the minds of believers with your literal viewpoint and cause them to lose their faith in the future when doubt is no longer possible.

The writers of the New Testament were Christians. The term "Creationists" had no meaning. History had a different meaning. They used the scriptures they knew to explain the issues that God was inspiring them to write about. However, God is clever - he knew that man would continue to discover His secrets of creation, so He wrote His scripture in a way that would stay relevant as mankind progressed in knowledge.

Our God is an awesome God.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,030
7,265
62
Indianapolis, IN
✟594,630.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
"Grace plus <insert name of the work here>". Meaning, there is more to salvation that God's grace. Certainly, God expects much from us, in terms of commitment - "If you love me, obey my commandments" - but nothing you do adds one whit to that grace. All have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.

I'm a firm believer in Justification by faith through grace alone. In Adam all sinned and are born with the Adamic nature.
 
Upvote 0

Paul365

Active Member
Nov 22, 2007
76
5
✟22,721.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is just too much overwhelming evidence that a literal reading of the creation story does not reflect reality. OVERWHELMING evidence. You can choose to close your eyes, but don't poison the minds of believers with your literal viewpoint and cause them to lose their faith in the future when doubt is no longer possible.

The writers of the New Testament were Christians. The term "Creationists" had no meaning.
I have to disagree that literal reading of the creation story reflects "Creationism". There is no such thing as a "literal" reading. Creationists - if you mean those people that believe in a 6000 years old earth - interpret the creation story not "literal" but bend it to fit their own belief. If you read it really "literal" you end up with a flat earth below a vault with stars fixed to it and water above it. Which was just the way a Jewish author of that time (600 BC) would describe creation.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.