Outer Calling And Inner Calling.......

[cygnusx1]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It is about responsability. And it does not say: if any of you disciples, although He speaks of "ye" in the verses before and after, but in this verse it is "anyone" and thus making the contrast. [/SIZE][/FONT]
• It is not about eternal security, but regarding fruit bearing, which is evidently here on earth.

i am curious ,

so you submit those who may not even be disciples may live in Christ and when they don't abide or remain in Christ they are burned , but this is only on earth , nothing to do with hell ?

 

[holdon]

i am curious ,

so you submit those who may not even be disciples may live in Christ and when they don't abide or remain in Christ they are burned , but this is only on earth , nothing to do with hell ?

It is about producing fruit, on earth. If anyone is not in the Vine obviously he will not be able to produce fruit at all. He is also lost.

 

[cygnusx1]

It is about producing fruit, on earth. If anyone is not in the Vine obviously he will not be able to produce fruit at all. He is also lost.

one cannot produce good fruit unless he is in the vine , are you saying none disciples can be in the vine ?

 

[holdon]

one cannot produce good fruit unless he is in the vine , are you saying none disciples can be in the vine ?

No, I didn't say that.

 

[cygnusx1]

Originally Posted by cygnusx1
one cannot produce good fruit unless he is in the vine , are you saying none disciples can be in the vine ?

No, I didn't say that.

you certainly have implied it ;


Originally Posted by cygnusx1
moving on ........ seeing as you like to see conditions for effectual calling but none for osas , howabout this ;

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In John. 15[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Verse 6 : [/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned (NIV).[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]is this not evidence of conditional security , because there are several other scriptures that use the "if" word ...... [/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

  [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]It is about responsability. And it does not say: if any of you disciples, although He speaks of "ye" in the verses before and after, but in this verse it is "anyone" and thus making the contrast. [/SIZE][/FONT]

  [/SIZE][/FONT]

here you distinguish between disciples and anyone.

 

[holdon]

you certainly have implied it ;


Originally Posted by cygnusx1
moving on ........ seeing as you like to see conditions for effectual calling but none for osas , howabout this ;

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In John. 15[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Verse 6 : [/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned (NIV).[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]is this not evidence of conditional security , because there are several other scriptures that use the "if" word ...... [/SIZE][/FONT]

here you distinguish between disciples and anyone.

I am not sure what you're trying to argue. John 15 (the vine story) is about bearing fruit as a responsability. It was because Israel (the Vine in the Old Testament) did not bear fruit that it was rejected. (See Isaiah and Jeremiah).
It is not at all about being saved or eternal life. Jesus tells His disciples that they are already clean (=born again), but now they are charged to produce fruit. And the only way to do that is by abiding in Him. He uses "you" for His disciples. In verse 6 He uses "if anyone" (not: if any of you). Judas had just left. Did not abide in Him; could therefore never have born fruit.

 

[cygnusx1]

I am not sure what you're trying to argue. John 15 (the vine story) is about bearing fruit as a responsability. It was because Israel (the Vine in the Old Testament) did not bear fruit that it was rejected. (See Isaiah and Jeremiah).
It is not at all about being saved or eternal life. Jesus tells His disciples that they are already clean (=born again), but now they are charged to produce fruit. And the only way to do that is by abiding in Him. He uses "you" for His disciples. In verse 6 He uses "if anyone" (not: if any of you). Judas had just left. Did not abide in Him; could therefore never have born fruit.

ok , moving on , btw here is another text used by some to show conditional security ;

Heb.3


[12] Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
[13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;


do you agree that an "if" implies a condition , because i see many texts that indicate an "if" for security in salvation and no conditions for the effectual call.

 

[holdon]

ok , moving on , btw here is another text used by some to show conditional security ;

Heb.3


[12] Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
[13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;


do you agree that an "if" implies a condition , because i see many texts that indicate an "if" for security in salvation and no conditions for the effectual call.

If certainly implies a condition. "Effectual call" what do you mean? The called of Heb. 3:1 were addressed with "if".
Again, it is about our responsability. We need to hold on to the end. (vs 6, 14)