She's just not that into me?

[lunalinda]

Humbug.

Looks like I missed out on contributing something useful here. After reading the whole thread, the one reply I wanted to say was that it definitely is possible for a girl to be even more cautious around a guy she's attracted to. I say that because I was like that. Sometimes when I'm TOO attracted, I fear that I'll mess up or lose my cool if I show that attraction too fast. Sometimes I'll do things that I normally wouldn't do, like resist the guy! Sometimes excessive attraction can be a bit overwhelming at first. So in a way, my attraction to him just makes me stumble a bit more than it would if there was no attraction. This isn't a guarantee, but it certainly is possible. Girls have their own paces about these things.

But I sense that reply may be rather useless now that you sent the email to her. If it was me in her shoes, and I was the sort that was truly attracted to you, but was scared of that fact, then that email would certainly push me away. I would immediately conclude that the trust I was trying to build with you didn't really mean that much to stop you from almost "demanding" how I should deal with the situation. Oh well.

Good luck anyway!

 

[JackTrajan]

Welp, it's a bit too late now dearie ! I sent her an e-mail explaining I wanted her to initiate contact with me for a while. I told her I'd always be there (if I could) whenever she contacted me to talk, but the ball was in her court. I also explained that I wanted to see more effort on her side to be with me, and strongly suggested she find a mode of transportation on her own, even if it's only for one meeting. We'll see how she takes it. I told her straight up that if this stuff was too tough for her, we probably shouldn't be seeing each other anymore.

If honesty counts for much of anything you seem to have your bases covered.

 

[Annova]

AK, it's only been 3 dates. Some women move slower then others and if she has a history of bad men, it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't want to kiss you.

You really sound like you took offense to her not letting you kiss her. Would you feel the same way about all of this if she had let you?

Welp, it's a bit too late now dearie ! I sent her an e-mail explaining I wanted her to initiate contact with me for a while. I told her I'd always be there (if I could) whenever she contacted me to talk, but the ball was in her court. I also explained that I wanted to see more effort on her side to be with me, and strongly suggested she find a mode of transportation on her own, even if it's only for one meeting. We'll see how she takes it. I told her straight up that if this stuff was too tough for her, we probably shouldn't be seeing each other anymore.

Oh...you shouldn't have done that.

You make it sound like your both in a relationship.

Dude, unsend, if you can. Not the best move. If you can't, let me know and we'll work on damage control.

Yeah no kidding.

 

[deliciousBass]

This type of thread is like catnip to the ladies.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

Well folks, I don't see why the e-mail I sent should be such a negative to a girl...if she really is interested in me like she says. I thought I phrased myself well....here's what I said:

For a while, I want you to be initiating things between us. I will not e-mail you or IM you or call you. If you wish to do these things, you can e-mail, IM me or call me and I will respond (if I'm able). I have been pursuing you in all these methods and I feel that I have done enough and that if you continue to be interested in me you can start things for a while at least. So the power is in your hands, you can talk as much or as little to me as you want. If you don't want the e-mails to go on every day, they don't have to. The same goes for the rest of it.

I have poured a lot of time and effort into seeing you so far, and to be honest I don't feel like our relationship is at the right balance. I drive every mile, I plan every date, I buy all the food and all the entertainment. I know it is unfair to require you to spend the kind of money I have to in order to see you, but there must be a way where I do not have to do absolutely everything in order to facilitate our meetings. I would strongly suggest doing everything you can to find a means of transportation on your own, even if it's just for one meeting. I also think maybe I have been doing too much for our dates and that we don't need to necessarily do things that are so overtly romantic. I haven't been doing this on purpose, it's just my natural instinct to do things that I think will make you feel special and cared for.

If this is too much for you, I'm going to have to conclude that you don't really care very much for me after all and that we probably shouldn't see each other anymore. I want you to know that I do care about you! But I am not interested in a one-sided relationship. I have proven how much I care by doing my best to facilitate our meetings, to show you a good time, to show you the kind of person I am and to enjoy my time with you. Please don't take this as my putting up impossible hurdles for you to jump, because that's not what it is. This is simply what I feel must happen if we are to proceed any further with a healthy relationship of this kind."

Frankly, if this kind of open, honest communication is a dealbreaker for her...then that's a dealbreaker for me. This is how I feel, and if she can't handle it I really don't want to date someone so insecure and selfish. I said nothing of physical contact in this message, because that's not what it's about. It's about her treating me as well as I treat her.

 

[ido]

Dude, unsend, if you can. Not the best move. If you can't, let me know and we'll work on damage control.

That made me smile.

 

[deliciousBass]

Well folks, I don't see why the e-mail I sent should be such a negative to a girl...if she really is interested in me like she says. I thought I phrased myself well....here's what I said:




Frankly, if this kind of open, honest communication is a dealbreaker for her...then that's a dealbreaker for me. This is how I feel, and if she can't handle it I really don't want to date someone so insecure and selfish. I said nothing of physical contact in this message, because that's not what it's about. It's about her treating me as well as I treat her.

Wow, haha, I hadn't read your email but that was kinda harsh dude. Unless she's desperate, you can pretty much kiss your hopes of going on another date with her goodbye. Are you in law school?!?! lol

 

[ido]

Well folks, I don't see why the e-mail I sent should be such a negative to a girl...if she really is interested in me like she says. I thought I phrased myself well....here's what I said:




Frankly, if this kind of open, honest communication is a dealbreaker for her...then that's a dealbreaker for me. This is how I feel, and if she can't handle it I really don't want to date someone so insecure and selfish. I said nothing of physical contact in this message, because that's not what it's about. It's about her treating me as well as I treat her.

If I were the one reading that email, I would be totally put off by the tone. You are essentially dumping the responsibility of the entire relationship in HER lap b/c you don't feel that she has responded appropriately on a physical level. You have flat out told her that you feel you are carrying the weight of the relationship - and that she either steps up to the plate or you're done with her.

FWIW - I don't think she's being selfish and immature. I think that you both have different ideas of how a relationship should progress. Instead of putting pressure on her to carry her weight, an open discussion about what her expectations are for how the relationship should progress (timelines, levels of intimacy, etc.) would have fared much better than an email like that one.

It sounds, tho, like you've already decided that she's not doing enough, so why not just break it off? The fact that you are perceiving her as selfish and insecure so early on in the relationship - whether your perception is right or not - is a huge red flag, IMO.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

Wow, haha, I hadn't read your email but that was kinda harsh dude. Unless she's desperate, you can pretty much kiss your hopes of going on another date with her goodbye. Are you in law school?!?! lol

Why is it harsh??? It's exactly how I feel. I don't feel like she has shown that she is actually interested in me...she doesn't lift a finger to see me and I bend over backwards for her! At this point it'll be a relief if something this simple ends it for her...it will give me conclusive proof she's not someone I want to date.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

If I were the one reading that email, I would be totally put off by the tone. You are essentially dumping the responsibility of the entire relationship in HER lap b/c you don't feel that she has responded appropriately on a physical level. You have flat out told her that you feel you are carrying the weight of the relationship - and that she either steps up to the plate or you're done with her.

FWIW - I don't think she's being selfish and immature. I think that you both have different ideas of how a relationship should progress. Instead of putting pressure on her to carry her weight, an open discussion about what her expectations are for how the relationship should progress (timelines, levels of intimacy, etc.) would have fared much better than an email like that one.

It sounds, tho, like you've already decided that she's not doing enough, so why not just break it off? The fact that you are perceiving her as selfish and insecure so early on in the relationship - whether your perception is right or not - is a huge red flag, IMO.

Would you date someone who was so one-sided with their time and affections, where you had to do everything? It's torture to be with someone who gives you essentially zero validation for the effort you spend to be with them, and we have talked a little bit about this before...she didn't get it. If I'm not totally clear on this it will be meaningless. She ISN'T doing enough. I deserve better than this. But I know she also deserves to know how I feel and that if she wants to change I will accept that. Otherwise, c'est la vie.

 

[deliciousBass]

Why is it harsh??? It's exactly how I feel. I don't feel like she has shown that she is actually interested in me...she doesn't lift a finger to see me and I bend over backwards for her! At this point it'll be a relief if something this simple ends it for her...it will give me conclusive proof she's not someone I want to date.

Yeah... honesty is the best policy is what they say right?

I don't think you should've spilled your guts. There was no need to do that imo. I realize that we are different people, but I think it would've been better for you to just ask her if you are someone she would like to continue to date and leave it at that. The spirit of what you were saying was okay, I just don't think you used much tact and laid it on her pretty heavy all at once. Anyway, it sounds like you were frustrated and were thinking about it too much... if you choose to speak to her about it again, you might ask her what you can do to make her feel comfortable. I will give you 10000 blessings if you figure out a way to take her out on another date That would take mad skillz yo.

Last time I dated a girl and she was acting that way, it was because she was still hung up on her ex-boyfriend.

 

[ido]

Would you date someone who was so one-sided with their time and affections, where you had to do everything? It's torture to be with someone who gives you essentially zero validation for the effort you spend to be with them, and we have talked a little bit about this before...she didn't get it. If I'm not totally clear on this it will be meaningless. She ISN'T doing enough. I deserve better than this. But I know she also deserves to know how I feel and that if she wants to change I will accept that. Otherwise, c'est la vie.

I absolutely agree that you deserve a balanced relationship with lots of give and take. My point is that after only going on a few dates and talking for a month, it's better to just stop dating her rather than give her an ultimatum. If you have to tell her you want her to pay attention to you - well, then the title of your thread is dead on.

 

[deliciousBass]

If you have to tell her you want her to pay attention to you - well, then the title of your thread is dead on.

Ohhhhh.... good stuff!

*takes notes LadyofMystery style*

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

I absolutely agree that you deserve a balanced relationship with lots of give and take. My point is that after only going on a few dates and talking for a month, it's better to just stop dating her rather than give her an ultimatum. If you have to tell her you want her to pay attention to you - well, then the title of your thread is dead on.

Exactly right. This is a litmus test. If she is genuinely into me, if she is "too attracted", she'll say "ok, he's being honest even if I feel hurt by what he said...I want to show him that I genuinely like him, so I can try to do this". If she's not that into me, she'll overreact, accuse me of being a controlling, needy jerky and end it. Either way, I get what I really need...closure. This whole situation bothers me too much to go on dealing with it without some sort of conclusion, to be honest.

 

[trulyliving]

Exactly right. This is a litmus test. If she is genuinely into me, if she is "too attracted", she'll say "ok, he's being honest even if I feel hurt by what he said...I want to show him that I genuinely like him, so I can try to do this". If she's not that into me, she'll overreact, accuse me of being a controlling, needy jerky and end it. Either way, I get what I really need...closure. This whole situation bothers me too much to go on dealing with it without some sort of conclusion, to be honest.

Thanks for the reminder of the drama I'm not missing about relationships. Hope you get what you're looking for, either way, and that she's honest and upfront with you.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

Thanks for the reminder of the drama I'm not missing about relationships. Hope you get what you're looking for, either way, and that she's honest and upfront with you.

No kidding! Stuff like this makes me hate dating, but it's the nature of the beast.

 

[Tamara224]

Well folks, I don't see why the e-mail I sent should be such a negative to a girl...if she really is interested in me like she says. I thought I phrased myself well....here's what I said:


Frankly, if this kind of open, honest communication is a dealbreaker for her...then that's a dealbreaker for me. This is how I feel, and if she can't handle it I really don't want to date someone so insecure and selfish. I said nothing of physical contact in this message, because that's not what it's about. It's about her treating me as well as I treat her.

I thought you liked this girl???!!!! What the bleep did you send that email for?

If someone I had dated 3 times sent me that email.... I'd tell him he could kiss my *** and not to let the door hit him on the way out.

I agree with LunaLinda ... I was going to tell you that you need to give this poor girl some more time. If that's really you in the picture... You're a very handsome young man, Alexei. She may be a little intimidated by that fact. She may need to see, to be sure, that you are not a player. She probably needs a little time to be reassured that you want something more than sex.

Now, you've basically told her that since she didn't let you grope her, you don't want her. (I'm fairly certain that's not what you meant to say... but if I got that email under those circumstances, that's what I would read into it.).

And why did you feel the need to lay a guilt trip on her for the fact that you do all the driving, spend money etc.? Again, if someone sent that email to me I would be upset... it implies that she owes you something for all the effort you've put in... Do you have any idea how many men in this world think that if they just spend enough money the girl is obligated to sleep with them? Now you've made it seem like the only reason you were spending money to spend time with her is because you were hoping to get a little further than 1st base on the 3rd date. Sorry if it's unfair, but that's the way the world works.


You've suggested that she's being selfish. But you should maybe look at yourself. You're not happy because things didn't go quite the way you planned/wanted. And it's all her fault. According to you...

Meh, if you really liked her, imo, you wouldn't care if you have to go pick her up. You'd just want to see her. People have no problem spending their money on things they like or want. Unless they want money more than anything else. But that's rarely the case.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

I thought you liked this girl???!!!! What the bleep did you send that email for?

If someone I had dated 3 times sent me that email.... I'd tell him he could kiss my *** and not to let the door hit him on the way out.

I agree with LunaLinda ... I was going to tell you that you need to give this poor girl some more time. If that's really you in the picture... You're a very handsome young man, Alexai. She may be a little intimidated by that fact. She may need to see, to be sure, that you are not a player. She probably needs a little time to be reassured that you want something more than sex.

Now, you've basically told her that since she didn't let you grope her, you don't want her. (I'm fairly certain that's not what you meant to say... but if I got that email under those circumstances, that's what I would read into it.).

And why did you feel the need to lay a guilt trip on her for the fact that you do all the driving, spend money etc.? Again, if someone sent that email to me I would be upset... it implies that she owes you something for all the effort you've put in... Do you have any idea how many men in this world think that if they just spend enough money the girl is obligated to sleep with them? Now you've made it seem like the only reason you were spending money to spend time with her is because you were hoping to get a little further than 1st base on the 3rd date. Sorry if it's unfair, but that's the way the world works.


You've suggested that she's being selfish. But you should maybe look at yourself. You're not happy because things didn't go quite the way you planned/wanted. And it's all her fault. According to you...

Meh, if you really liked her, imo, you wouldn't care if you have to go pick her up. You'd just want to see her. People have no problem spending their money on things they like or want. Unless they want money more than anything else. But that's rarely the case.

Look, I can understand that reading like I'm demanding physical affection, but it's not what I actually wrote at all. I have to admit, a modicum of physical affection would go a long way towards showing me that she cares about me...but I listed other ways she could show it too. I'm sorry, why do you expect me to be the one who doesn't care how much effort he has to put in to see a girl, when she isn't expected to lift a finger? Isn't this a two-way street? That's my whole dilemma here. I don't mind bending over backwards for a girl, but I WON'T do it for a girl who shows zero appreciation or reciprocation in terms of demonstrating that she cares just as much about me.

I am not demanding that this girl let me grope her or stick my tongue down her throat...I don't even want to kiss her yet! I do desire physical affection from her, but I'm willing to wait for when she's ready. All I want is for her to show me that she's at least as invested as I am, that she's willing to put in some time and effort just like I am. Otherwise, I am totally justified in making the conclusion that "she's just not that into me."

 

[traingosorry]

Tamara has absolutely said it best.

My very first thought at the beginning of the thread was 'Does Alexei think she owes him a kiss or more?'. Of course I knew better than that because I have a good idea of what kind of guy you are but things can easily be misunderstood.

Were you able to take care of that email to ensure she doesn't receive it? It may very well be the end for you two unless she has been able to read you well enough on 3 dates to know what you really meant. I'm sorry but the combination of the 3rd date's activities plus the added pressure of her having to kiss you even when she wasn't ready, and finally to have this email come flying at her - it's done I think.

In the future if you meet someone just as great as her who happens to be moving at a slower pace and isn't reciprocating, your best bet truly is to step back and not say anything. Let her think about it and come to you. She needs time to think about how she feels for you without having to process just how strongly you are coming on.

I thought you liked this girl???!!!! What the bleep did you send that email for?

If someone I had dated 3 times sent me that email.... I'd tell him he could kiss my *** and not to let the door hit him on the way out.

I agree with LunaLinda ... I was going to tell you that you need to give this poor girl some more time. If that's really you in the picture... You're a very handsome young man, Alexei. She may be a little intimidated by that fact. She may need to see, to be sure, that you are not a player. She probably needs a little time to be reassured that you want something more than sex.

Now, you've basically told her that since she didn't let you grope her, you don't want her. (I'm fairly certain that's not what you meant to say... but if I got that email under those circumstances, that's what I would read into it.).

And why did you feel the need to lay a guilt trip on her for the fact that you do all the driving, spend money etc.? Again, if someone sent that email to me I would be upset... it implies that she owes you something for all the effort you've put in... Do you have any idea how many men in this world think that if they just spend enough money the girl is obligated to sleep with them? Now you've made it seem like the only reason you were spending money to spend time with her is because you were hoping to get a little further than 1st base on the 3rd date. Sorry if it's unfair, but that's the way the world works.


You've suggested that she's being selfish. But you should maybe look at yourself. You're not happy because things didn't go quite the way you planned/wanted. And it's all her fault. According to you...

Meh, if you really liked her, imo, you wouldn't care if you have to go pick her up. You'd just want to see her. People have no problem spending their money on things they like or want. Unless they want money more than anything else. But that's rarely the case.

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

Tamara has absolutely said it best.

My very first thought at the beginning of the thread was 'Does Alexei think she owes him a kiss or more?'. Of course I knew better than that because I have a good idea of what kind of guy you are but things can easily be misunderstood.

Were you able to take care of that email to ensure she doesn't receive it? It may very well be the end for you two unless she has been able to read you well enough on 3 dates to know what you really meant. I'm sorry but the combination of the 3rd date's activities plus the added pressure of her having to kiss you even when she wasn't ready, and finally to have this email come flying at her - it's done I think.

In the future if you meet someone just as great as her who happens to be moving at a slower pace and isn't reciprocating, your best bet truly is to step back and not say anything. Let her think about it and come to you. She needs time to think about how she feels for you without having to process just how strongly you are coming on.

It's becoming apparent to me that this is tough for a lot of women to understand. It's a much bigger danger for guys when we sense a woman is just using us for the money, time and entertainment we can show them. If she is very cold towards us physically, spends no effort to be with us, and is essentially expecting everything to be brought to her on a platter all for the "pleasure of her company", how on earth could we be expected to believe a girl like this has good intentions?

Again, I am not demanding physical affection from her right now. I have not even tried to kiss her other than on the cheek...something she said was fine with her and that she even called me back to do! I'm not some ogre, so please don't paint me like that. I see very little empathy on the side of women here. It's really different on the guy's side.

You know what, I'll even go a little further...I will not wait forever for this girl to warm up to me. I WILL wait. But not forever. There will reach a certain point where I have to conclude that she's either using me or has unpassable physical intimacy issues. Sorry ladies, that's just how it is for guys. You can't expect to have a guy treat you like gold then treat him like bronze in return. If it really takes you ten dates to even allow a man to put your arm around him in the most innocent way possible, you shouldn't be dating.