Scientific hoax: Piltdown man was a fake

notto

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In any case what we have is a single solitary example of a possible bird ancestor.
Single? Solitary? You don't seem to be familiar with the fossils of archaeopteryx that we have. Where are you getting your information? You might want to read up a bit. You are demonstrating that you don't really know what you are talking about.
it requires tremendous imagination to suggest that this old wing could have produced the penguin, the hummingbird and the ostrich through viable intermediate stages. Give me a break
IMG013biglittledogFX_wb.jpg


Give me a break indeed.
 
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TheOutsider

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What the heck is a tiktaalik,fancy arbitrary names impress no-one; indeed the equally absurdly named archaeopterix (Greek for old wing) impresses no one,the use of arbitrary names to make a fossil seem somehow real and mildly scientific is naive in the extreme. Lets just call this fossil an "old wing".
Scientists like using Greek and Latin names. It kinda standardizes naming across many languages. You can call the fossils anything you like. They still exist though.
In any case what we have is a single solitary example of a possible bird ancestor.
Actually, there are about 8 different fossil finds. And I thought that archaeopterix was a dinosaur species. I wish you Creationists would make up your mind.
The question is whether it constitutes absolute proof of dinosaur to bird evolution,or whether it is simply an odd variant; it requires tremendous imagination to suggest that this old wing could have produced the penguin, the hummingbird and the ostrich through viable intermediate stages. Give me a break
Are you suggesting that penguin, hummingbirds and ostriches do not belong in the Aves Class?
 
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TeddyKGB

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What the heck is a tiktaalik,fancy arbitrary names impress no-one; indeed the equally absurdly named archaeopterix (Greek for old wing) impresses no one,the use of arbitrary names to make a fossil seem somehow real and mildly scientific is naive in the extreme. Lets just call this fossil an "old wing".In any case what we have is a single solitary example of a possible bird ancestor.
Except for Microraptor, Confuciusomis, Deionychus, and the other ten or so feathered dinosaur genera.

Other than those, of course, just the one.
The question is whether it constitutes absolute proof of dinosaur to bird evolution,or whether it is simply an odd variant; it requires tremendous imagination to suggest that this old wing could have produced the penguin, the hummingbird and the ostrich through viable intermediate stages. Give me a break
I'm not following you. Do you believe that penguins, hummingbirds, and ostriches all share a common ancestor, just not Archaeopteryx? Or do you believe they are all separately created kinds?

And just so you know, if you affirm the latter question I will be ridiculing your absurd beliefs.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims.

Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we'd all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!
 
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Vene

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Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims.

Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we'd all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!
That amuses me way too much.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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That amuses me way too much.
Oh, well its all true! See, they call Tiktaalik a missing link... and gullible people believe thembut if they just called it "flat frog" no one would be as impressed!

Remember, the Bible is absolutely literally correct. We have irrefutable evidence of this!
 
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Chalnoth

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What the heck is a tiktaalik,
It's an animal closely related to the evolutionary ancestor of the tetrapods (includes all amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals). Basically, it's a cross between an amphibian and a fish.
 
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Baggins

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What the heck is a tiktaalik,fancy arbitrary names impress no-one;

:D Your gross ignorance on the topic you are about to hold forth on is noted.

How can you have anything useful to say about transitional fossils if you haven't even heard of the most recent fish-tetrapod transitional Tiktaalik rosea?

The name is not arbitrary it was named after a supporter of the expedition to find the fossil ( Rose ) and Tiktaalik is inuit for "large shallow water fish "

Doesn't sound too fancy to me, " dany them scientists with their fancy names!":)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cach...ming+tiktaalik+rosea&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=uk




i
ndeed the equally absurdly named archaeopterix (Greek for old wing)

Must have a different idea of what absurdity is. To me a definition of absurdity would holding forth at length on subjects that you know nothing about rather than naming a Therapod Bird transitional "old wing"

impresses no one

It is not meant to impress anyone, it is meant to label the species so everyone knows what everyone else is talking about, do you find it absurd that you have a name?

,
the use of arbitrary names

I have already shown you that they are not arbitrary, they usually encompass a latin description of the animal Archaeopteryx = old wing, along with a a lower case suffix that often honours a scientist or donor that the describer wants to honour, or sometimes it is a further description such as Homo sapiens = Clever man.


to make a fossil seem somehow real

The fossils are undoubtedly real, you get yourself down to a ocal natural history museum and look at them if you felt like it, to see Tiktaalik or Archaeopteryx in the "flesh" you would probably have to travel to Europe or North America.


and mildly scientific is naive in the extreme

So you are saying fossils are a figment of the imagination and anyone who thinks they are real let alone scientifically notable is naive.

Interesting, do you have any evidence that fossils are illusory?

.
Lets just call this fossil an "old wing".

Good a name as any other, and a better description than "Truth Above All Else" :D

In any case what we have is a single solitary example of a possible bird ancestor.

Not true, there are multiple examples of Archaeoptryx and many other dinosaur bird transitionals have since been found.

The question is whether it constitutes absolute proof of dinosaur to bird evolution,or whether it is simply an odd variant

I thought you were claiming it wasn't even real. It is not absolute proof of dinosaur to bird evolution, nothing ever will be. It is one piece of evidence in a larger whole that makes it extremely likely that birds developed from a subset of dinosaurs.


;
it requires tremendous imagination to suggest that this old wing could have produced the penguin,

Something you obviously lack, along with an appreciation of the evidence that suggests that this is exactly what has happened.

the hummingbird and the ostrich through viable intermediate stages.

That's evolution small incremental changes over long periods of time.

Give me a break

I've given you an education, which will be a lot more useful for you in the long run:wave:
 
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corvus_corax

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Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims.
Quite correct, true believer!
We really should just get back to calling animal groups "kinds". Its much easier to assume than clarify!!
Score one for the true believers!!!! :clap:

Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we'd all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!
And don't forget that other acid- hydroxylic acid!
Of course those stoopid scientists also have other names for this dangerous substance. For example- oxidane, hydrohydroxic acid, and hydrogen hydroxide, among others.

You wanna talk about dangerous substances? Hydroxylic acid kills thousand of people (maybe millions) every year. It can cause death-dealing asphyxiation (another fancy word for "can't breathe"), it can lead directly to broken bones, and (get this), it's used as a torture device!!
Bad stuff :mad:
Additionally, Hydroxylic acid is used in the production of styrofoam (and we all know how bad THAT is for the environment), it is a MAJOR component of acid rain (speaking of the environment), it can cause severe burns, it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients, it's used as a major industrial solvent, it has been directly tied to many cases of animal experimentation, it's an additive in many junk foods (what are you eating?!?!?), and (get this you naysayers) it is directly used in the production of nuclear weapons and some chemical weapons!!

Now imagine the havoc this stuff would wreak if it were in your body! :preach:

The very least that "scientists" (and I use that term MOST loosely here) could do is give us a simple term for this common hazardous chemical. Ya know, kinda like "old wing".

Evilution PWNED!!!!!

BackGAMMON!!

..oh wait :doh:
 
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TheOutsider

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And don't forget that other acid- hydroxylic acid!
Of course those stoopid scientists also have other names for this dangerous substance. For example- oxidane, hydrohydroxic acid, and hydrogen hydroxide, among others.

You wanna talk about dangerous substances? Hydroxylic acid kills thousand of people (maybe millions) every year. It can cause death-dealing asphyxiation (another fancy word for "can't breathe"), it can lead directly to broken bones, and (get this), it's used as a torture device!!
Bad stuff :mad:
Additionally, Hydroxylic acid is used in the production of styrofoam (and we all know how bad THAT is for the environment), it is a MAJOR component of acid rain (speaking of the environment), it can cause severe burns, it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients, it's used as a major industrial solvent, it has been directly tied to many cases of animal experimentation, it's an additive in many junk foods (what are you eating?!?!?), and (get this you naysayers) it is directly used in the production of nuclear weapons and some chemical weapons!!

Now imagine the havoc this stuff would wreak if it were in your body! :preach:

The very least that "scientists" (and I use that term MOST loosely here) could do is give us a simple term for this common hazardous chemical. Ya know, kinda like "old wing".

Evilution PWNED!!!!!

BackGAMMON!!

..oh wait :doh:
That was awesome! Ban Dihyrdrogen Monoxide today!!!!
 
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corvus_corax

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Ban Dihyrdrogen Monoxide today!!!!
Dude, just STOP!!
Hasn't it been pointed out to you that fancy names are unimpressive and that they fool no one?

Granted, I used a fancy name, but the one I used was much SHORTER than Dihydrogen Monoxide. And, as pointed out, shorter is better.
So just stop it with your arbitrary naming of a deadly chemical, k? At least be honest and admit that "Dihydrogen Monoxide" is an absurd name for this deadly substance.

Let's just call this chemical an "acid", okay? Let's keep it simple so that us True Believers can understand it, okay?

I'd appreciate it if you'd just dumb down your statement to "Ban Acids Today!"

Can you at least do that for us True Believers? Can you please avoid trying to sound scientific?
Please don't try to sound pretentious by invoking yet another fancy name.



Anyway, evil-lotion PWNED.
KING ME!
 
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EnemyPartyII

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That was awesome! Ban Dihyrdrogen Monoxide today!!!!
Did you know that Dihydrous Monoxide is being allowed into our waterways absolutely unchecked???

Corporations and industries are dumping this vile substance into our childrens drinking water, absolutely unchecked!

Did you know that Out of 5,000 biopsied cancer cells, 100% were found to contain traces of dihydrous monoxide??
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Dude, just STOP!!
Hasn't it been pointed out to you that fancy names are unimpressive and that they fool no one?

Granted, I used a fancy name, but the one I used was much SHORTER than Dihydrogen Monoxide. And, as pointed out, shorter is better.
So just stop it with your arbitrary naming of a deadly chemical, k? At least be honest and admit that "Dihydrogen Monoxide" is an absurd name for this deadly substance.

Let's just call this chemical an "acid", okay? Let's keep it simple so that us True Believers can understand it, okay?

I'd appreciate it if you'd just dumb down your statement to "Ban Acids Today!"

Can you at least do that for us True Believers? Can you please avoid trying to sound scientific?
Please don't try to sound pretentious by invoking yet another fancy name.



Anyway, evil-lotion PWNED.
KING ME!
And did you know that inhalation of even small amounts of dihydrous monoxide virtually always results in death???
 
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Vene

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Dude, just STOP!!
Hasn't it been pointed out to you that fancy names are unimpressive and that they fool no one?

Granted, I used a fancy name, but the one I used was much SHORTER than Dihydrogen Monoxide. And, as pointed out, shorter is better.
So just stop it with your arbitrary naming of a deadly chemical, k? At least be honest and admit that "Dihydrogen Monoxide" is an absurd name for this deadly substance.

Let's just call this chemical an "acid", okay? Let's keep it simple so that us True Believers can understand it, okay?

I'd appreciate it if you'd just dumb down your statement to "Ban Acids Today!"

Can you at least do that for us True Believers? Can you please avoid trying to sound scientific?
Please don't try to sound pretentious by invoking yet another fancy name.



Anyway, evil-lotion PWNED.
KING ME!
It's more deadly than you think. Not only is Hydrogen Hydroxide an acid, it functions equally well as a base. Now just one of these types (or kinds if you will) of chemicals can burn our flesh, but when it acts as both!:eek: And did you know that children are given it by parents unknowingly every day. This is a crisis and must be stopped.
 
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Psudopod

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I ahve a ban dihydrogen monoxide t-shirt. The best conversation I had was with a swimming pool attendant at a hotel. I explained to him just how nasty this stuff is, then pointed though the window to the couple of tonnes of the stuff they had lying around where anyone could get at it!
 
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speakout

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A detailed examination of what we know on this topic fills many text books. Here's a (very) rough outline of what is known so far:

1. Cosmic Inflation.
2. Reheating.
3. Big Bang.
4. Formation of galaxies.
5. First stars form.
6. Supernovae generate heavy elements.
7. Third generation stars have enough heavy elements to form rocky planets.
8. Earth is one of those planets.
9. Within 100 million years after the Earth has cooled enough for life, it formed.
10. Biological evolution, over about 3.9 billion years, led to us.

Each of these is worthy of text books worth of study, most of all the last one, our knowledge of which fills many tomes.

Now, are you going to even bother to answer my challenge?
wow I thank you, a series of steps which are unrelated but depend on the pyramid chain not falling.

What caused cosmic inflation?

And if there was no space where did this mass happen?

Matter cannot be destroyed or created
 
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Chalnoth

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wow I thank you, a series of steps which are unrelated but depend on the pyramid chain not falling.
Not really a problem, considering each is buttressed with strong evidence.

What caused cosmic inflation?
We don't yet know what cosmic inflation was, so it's a bit premature to ask what caused it. Perhaps when we learn more about the properties of cosmic inflation, we'll be able to make a statement as to its causes.

And if there was no space where did this mass happen?
Who says there was no space? There was space-time during the era of cosmic inflation. Since we don't know what happened before that, we can't say whether or no there was space-time before that.

Matter cannot be destroyed or created
Yes it can. We do it routinely in particle accelerators. Furthermore, in the context of an expanding universe, energy is not conserved. The total energy stored in the matter fields inside an expanding (or, technically, contracting) volume of space can increase or decrease, depending upon the properties of that matter. In an expanding box, for instance, the energy in normal matter remains roughly constant (it decreases slightly due to loss in kinetic energy from moving particles "catching up" to the expansion, but this can largely be ignored), while the energy in relativistic matter (such as photons) decreases. The energy in certain other forms of matter, such as some types of scalar field (such as those proposed to drive inflation) or a cosmological constant instead tends to increase with time.

Where did that energy come from? If one reformulates the expansion in a Hamiltonian framework, where one not only considers the energy stored in the matter fields, but also the gravitational potential energy, one finds that the total energy of a closed universe is always identically zero: the added energy in the matter fields came from the increased negative gravitational potential energy.

For a concrete illustration:
(before expansion)
matter energy = 10
potential energy = -10
sum = 0

(after some expansion)
matter energy = 10,000,000
potential energy = -10,000,000
sum = 0

Note that the potential energy doesn't come from some finite reservoir of potential energy: it can become more and more negative for all eternity.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Where did that energy come from? If one reformulates the expansion in a Hamiltonian framework, where one not only considers the energy stored in the matter fields, but also the gravitational potential energy, one finds that the total energy of a closed universe is always identically zero: the added energy in the matter fields came from the increased negative gravitational potential energy.

For a concrete illustration:
(before expansion)
matter energy = 10
potential energy = -10
sum = 0

(after some expansion)
matter energy = 10,000,000
potential energy = -10,000,000
sum = 0

Note that the potential energy doesn't come from some finite reservoir of potential energy: it can become more and more negative for all eternity.
So could quantum foam actually be a froth of universes forming and annihilating? And ours was one that just so happened to be conducive to both long-term stability and (human) life? I realise this is a bit less concrete than, say, Einstein's matter-energy equivalence principle, but the idea just hit me. Cool. I have an explanation for the universe!
 
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Chalnoth

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So could quantum foam actually be a froth of universes forming and annihilating? And ours was one that just so happened to be conducive to both long-term stability and (human) life? I realise this is a bit less concrete than, say, Einstein's matter-energy equivalence principle, but the idea just hit me. Cool. I have an explanation for the universe!
We don't yet know. Depending upon what the true fundamental laws are, it may indeed be possible that some subset of the fluctuations in the "quantum foam" are universes forming.

If it is indeed possible, the formation of a new universe from a quantum fluctuation would, from the perspective of an observer outside the fluctuation, look like the formation of a miniature black hole, a black hole which would then immediately decay away through Hawking radiation, forever pinching off the new baby universe from the universe which spawned it. From an observer on the inside, the universe may expand forever.
 
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