Assault on marriage!!!

[Ainustorm]

Ainustorm,

I don't think that anyone said that humans and animals are the same. I am suprised that you would refer to anyone as "pro-H". I suppose that this would make you anit-H? Now this concerns me, I though that you weren't against people...

I use Pro-H, because that is what people who see Homosexuality as ok, call themselves. I am using what others call themselves. I am anit-homosexual LIVING, I am against the living style, not the person... I alrdy clearified that.

You guys mention that Homosexuality is natural like nature... you are saying people are animals... for if animals have relations with same-sex... therefore it is natural for a man to love a man (romantically). You cannot use the animals do so can we stand, and then say "I don't think that anyone said that humans and animals are the same". That does not work, faulable foundation. If humans and animals are not the same, then we are trying to be animals because we need to justify our actions. We say Homosexuality is sin, you say it is alternate life style, it is natural.

WHY IS IT NATURAL? We cannot be not animal, and then use animals to justify sin.

Give me another statistic, book, foundation, truth, proof!!



Anyway a relationship between a goat and a person is different because since goats do not have the rational part of mind, they cannot feel anything for the person. This is proof that it is an unhealthy relationship and should be abandoned as soon as possible.

How do you know that? Animals have relationships, how do you know they do not have rational part of the mind? How do you know they cannot feel for the person? Those are assuptions, what is your bases for your proof? FYI- I think beastly is wrong! So do not assume I agree with act. Once again... do not use animals to justify Homosexuality... Why is it right? When all I see is confusion from those involved... you answer this question too...

Why is it there is a male and "female" in a gay couple? Vise Versa for Lesbians?

Why are they acting the standard roles of marriage... if it is supposedly 2 men and 2 women? I am confused

I don't really see how your verses apply here, we aren't talking about animals; we're talking about people.

The verses are talking about the people, not animals

Lastly, of course you think having sex with your male friends is gross, YOU'RE NOT GAY!!!

If nothing else answer this please: would you not say that there were a child born without legs it would be okay for that child to use prosthetic legs? Unnatural legs? perhaps immitate what nature, or God, didn't give it? How is this different?

It is unnatural... I never said all unnatural is wrong. Besides there is no comparison in relationships and artificial devices. It is different because, God STATES in the Bible that homosexuality (unnatural relationships) is an unnatural relationship, from what He desired. God is not against all unnatural... that is miss-using my statement and God's. God gave us a mind, He gave us freedom of choice... we can create, we can invent. Nothing wrong with that. But when God specifically states something is wrong and sin, we should be standing for it.

Let me ask you, Is murder wrong???Why??

 

[Ainustorm]

say no to what??

If it turns to law, then churches will not have the right to say no to marrying gays and lesbians. For they will sue, or take the pastor to jail. If you going to pass a law, then we must pass a law that all religious sects have a right to say no, talk, our talk against. Passing the law would strip all religions of their freedom to stand against them.

 

[Carey]

I am voting for the person who will let me marry my goat I love her. What she and I do behind closed doors hurts noone. But I want to take it a step further. I want to be able to walk down the street hand and hoof and make out on park benches in public.
I also want to marry her and have your tax dollars to pay for our welfare when we have hard times. We may not be like most of you but who are you to judge??

 

[Ainustorm]

I am voting for the person who will let me marry my goat I love her. What she and I do behind closed doors hurts noone. But I want to take it a step further. I want to be able to walk down the street hand and hoof and make out on park benches in public.
I also want to marry her and have your tax dollars to pay for our welfare when we have hard times. We may not be like most of you but who are you to judge??

O, yes...Here we go again... when someone clearly does not have a foundation on there stand, they pull out the "thou shall not Judge card". People, do not use verses from the Bible that you do not even understand. Confronting someone on sin is not Judging. Saying that a guy with 300 tattoos, 12 earrings, nose rings, red and blue hair is an evil man and should go to jail. That is judging. One you do not know who he is, and 2 him looking as I described is not sinning. You can only judge if 1 u understand the situation or 2 If they r doing something clearly wrong, a specific sin that God has stated as wrong.

So I judge in warning that such relations are Wrong and you are in Sin. Turn from it, and realize God loves you.

Why is Homosexuality/ Beastiology NOT wrong?

 

[Carey]

O, yes...Here we go again... when someone clearly does not have a foundation on there stand, they pull out the "thou shall not Judge card". People, do not use verses from the Bible that you do not even understand. Confronting someone on sin is not Judging. Saying that a guy with 300 tattoos, 12 earrings, nose rings, red and blue hair is an evil man and should go to jail. That is judging. One you do not know who he is, and 2 him looking as I described is not sinning. You can only judge if 1 u understand the situation or 2 If they r doing something clearly wrong, a specific sin that God has stated as wrong.

So I judge in warning that such relations are Wrong and you are in Sin. Turn from it, and realize God loves you.

Why is Homosexuality/ Beastiology NOT wrong?

I am sooo tempted to mess with you....LOL

But I feel that would be sinnful.

I was ridiculing the justification for homsexuality with a little sarcasm.

That being said please read my post you quoted again.

god bless you.

Carey

 

[Ainustorm]

I am sooo tempted to mess with you....LOL

But I feel that would be sinnful.

I was ridiculing the justification for homsexuality with a little sarcasm.

That being said please read my post you quoted again.

god bless you.

Carey

To be honest. I couldnt tell, especially when I saw it was you. My bad... my apologies! I did not realize it was you. Are we cool

 

[Carey]

To be honest. I couldnt tell, especially when I saw it was you. My bad... my apologies! I did not realize it was you. Are we cool

Thats ok , no problem.
It is hard here cause so many people take so much to heart.
I just was so tempted to play with you if I had would you forgive me too??

 

[Ainustorm]

Thats ok , no problem.
It is hard here cause so many people take so much to heart.
I just was so tempted to play with you if I had would you forgive me too??

Yeah, would have not been a big deal, I just get pretty fired up (not in the bad way). I enjoy debating, and usually when I get into these discussions, I am alone. So my defense can be up, lol. It is nice to have a brother in CHrist not blinded by lies.

 

[Carey]

Yeah, would have not been a big deal, I just get pretty fired up (not in the bad way). I enjoy debating, and usually when I get into these discussions, I am alone. So my defense can be up, lol. It is nice to have a brother in CHrist not blinded by lies.

Please try as you debate to remember what is from Timothy 2 in my signature. I have it there to remind everyone incase I come across as rude. Inever want to hurt anyones feelings. Sometimes the truth will hurt but it helps if it is given in a lovinf or funny way.

I was trying to be funny with the goat marriage analogy and a little sarcastic because we know goats are stubborn and there is also the parable of the speration of the goats and sheep.

 

[CoreyTheMagnificent]

Ainustorm,
Oh right, not against the person, just the lifestyle. I keep forgetting this because to me, the lifestyle and the person are the same.
I never said that people were animals or the same as animals. Now I say it is natural, would you not say that humans are natural, only animals? I feel okay with comparing this behavior to animals because there are many things that, although we are not the same, we humans share with animals: sleeping, eating, having sex, ect. I am of the opinion that homosexuality is natural in this way. I realize that you could now try to argue that all people do the things that I have listed, not just a small percentage. I answer this by saying that all humans have different things that they find attractive about the opposite sex, and have preferences in how they like the opposite sex to look. I think explains the difference between natural and being the same as animals.

You make me laugh when you demand proof of the truth. Prove to me that anything is true!

I suppose that you would claim that your bible is proof of what you are saying. The flaw in the logic of using that in this debate would be that I am no Christian.

When I say that animals do not have a rational mind I mean exactly what you say God gave us a freedom to choose. It is a commonly accepted idea throughout philosophy. You can see this for yourself by watching animals, why do they not use tools?

Again you make me laugh, stop dodging my questions!

You say that unnatural is not wrong, if this were the case why are you arguing?

So are you saying that being gay is bad or not?

Murder is wrong because you are doing something that negatively affects the world. We can look back to Kant to figure out what is right and wrong.

 

[CoreyTheMagnificent]

You do realize how silly you saying "not blinded by lies" seems to someone who is not of your relgion, don't you?

I have nothing against Christianity, I like the religion for the most part; I just don't like some Christians.

 

[CoreyTheMagnificent]

Carey,
A goat is not the same as a person, don't you know that?

 

[Candide]

It is different because, God STATES in the Bible that homosexuality (unnatural relationships) is an unnatural relationship, from what He desired

But see, there's the thing. That's up to interpretation. It's not just a solid fact. God doesn't state that homosexuality is wrong. At most, he states that homosexual sex is wrong, and as we've already established, there's far more to a relationship than sex. And anyway, did Jesus ever mention homosexuality? At all? You'd think that, if it was as evil as people say it is, Jesus (who was God), would have said more about it, no?

 

[Carey]

Carey,
A goat is not the same as a person, don't you know that?

Who are to judge my relationship with my goat??

You knw our relationship asside from the sex is quite fulfilling thank you. And what we do behind closed doors is our own affair.

 

[Carey]

It is different because, God STATES in the Bible that homosexuality (unnatural relationships) is an unnatural relationship, from what He desired

But see, there's the thing. That's up to interpretation. It's not just a solid fact. God doesn't state that homosexuality is wrong. At most, he states that homosexual sex is wrong, and as we've already established, there's far more to a relationship than sex. And anyway, did Jesus ever mention homosexuality? At all? You'd think that, if it was as evil as people say it is, Jesus (who was God), would have said more about it, no?

No Jesus ( Yeshua ) was not God nad is still not god and never will be God (Yahweh )

1 Corinthians 15 :23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 

[Candide]

No Jesus ( Yeshua ) was not God nad is still not god and never will be God (Yahweh )

I'll find some scripture later, when I have time. But, right now, are you saying that Jesus wasn't divine? He was just a normal person? I'm fairly certain that it's pretty basic Christian doctrine to believe that Jesus/God/Holy spirit are the same thing...you know...the trinity and such. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Ainustorm]

It is different because, God STATES in the Bible that homosexuality (unnatural relationships) is an unnatural relationship, from what He desired

But see, there's the thing. That's up to interpretation. It's not just a solid fact. God doesn't state that homosexuality is wrong. At most, he states that homosexual sex is wrong, and as we've already established, there's far more to a relationship than sex. And anyway, did Jesus ever mention homosexuality? At all? You'd think that, if it was as evil as people say it is, Jesus (who was God), would have said more about it, no?

Um... you are joking right?! The sex may be wrong but not the relationship... you are joking right. How can you justify that... if the sex is wrong... then the relationship has to be wrong... i am sorry... no true relationship that is romantic cannot survive sex in part of it. Sooo if the sex is wrong than the whole thin is wrong. What you stated is not... a valid excuse. So it is alright to have a homosexual relationship, but not the sex part???? LOLOLOLOLOL

By the way there are several references in scripture that mention such a life style as sin. And the reason God did not emphasis homosexuality alot... is it is sin. God is pure... He does not talk about the sin bc He did not send His Son to point fingers, but to save the weak and the sinful. To give them hope!

 

[Ainustorm]

You say that unnatural is not wrong, if this were the case why are you arguing?

So are you saying that being gay is bad or not?

Murder is wrong because you are doing something that negatively affects the world. We can look back to Kant to figure out what is right and wrong.[/quote]

I was not dodging, thought i answered it.

Unnatural man-made objects are not wrong unless, as you put it, negatively affects the world. Unnatural relationships cannot be compared to Unnatural devices. The Unnatural relationship is not as God had intended it to be. We may have similar characteristics as animals, but are made to find relationships with opposite gender to have romantic relations. That is NATURAL...

What animals supposedly have homosexual acts, again? I have heard but do not remember.

You are right the Bible is my foundation. I am asking... what is your foundation for making Homosexuality RIGHT???

Homosexuality is wrong, I thought that was clear... the person is in sin. As scripture states it is unnatural relationship, and in God's eyes they are being in a wicked relationship. It saddens God's heart, and I am sadden aswell. As I said before I hate the sin, not the person.

 

[Carey]

No Jesus ( Yeshua ) was not God nad is still not god and never will be God (Yahweh )

I'll find some scripture later, when I have time. But, right now, are you saying that Jesus wasn't divine? He was just a normal person? I'm fairly certain that it's pretty basic Christian doctrine to believe that Jesus/God/Holy spirit are the same thing...you know...the trinity and such. Guess I was wrong.

Yes Jesus was half man half divine.

Hid Dad is divine and his mother mortal.

I dont undertsand the confusion you have

 

[Candide]

The confusion I have is that Jesus was entirely divine, and entirely man. Not half and half. That's just not reflective of scripture.

Anistrum, I'll get to your points later.