Question on salvation

[planet]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

 

[WarEagle]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

There is a principle in studying the Bible called "the analogy of scripture". What this means is simply that scripture is to be taken as a whole and that verses must be interpreted by the whole of scripture.

In this case, you're absolutely right in saying that if one confesses Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead, he will be saved.

However, those are not the only criteria for salvation.

We see elsewhere that you have to repent, that you have to put your faith in Christ, and that you have to be born again.

If someone claims to be a Christian, but is still living in sin, like the people you describe, the 2 John 1 tells us that they're not Christians, because they haven't repented of their sin.

 

[ephraimanesti]

There is a principle in studying the Bible called "the analogy of scripture". What this means is simply that scripture is to be taken as a whole and that verses must be interpreted by the whole of scripture.

In this case, you're absolutely right in saying that if one confesses Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead, he will be saved.

However, those are not the only criteria for salvation.

We see elsewhere that you have to repent, that you have to put your faith in Christ, and that you have to be born again.

If someone claims to be a Christian, but is still living in sin, like the people you describe, the 2 John 1 tells us that they're not Christians, because they haven't repented of their sin.

MY SISTER,

What WarEagle says is very true. Be careful of taking a single scripture and drawing conclusions from it--doing that will give you a false impression most of the time. That is how Cults and Heresies are born.

i do have a take on the first Scripture you cited regarding "confessing that Jesus is Lord." That statement is often taken in a general way--i.e. Lord of all creation. But what the Gospel writer--and certainly the Lord--had in mind, i believe, was a personal surrender to Him as the Lord of YOUR life.

As i am sure you know, when a person pledged him/herself with an oath of fealty to become a vassal to a lord, it was much the same as selling him/herself into slavery to that lord--pledging absolute homage and obedience to that lord in all things. This was the most binding oath possible between two human beings, and the penalty for breaking that vow was death.

This, i believe, is the sense in which the scripture was intended, and the sense in which the first Christians--and all TRUE Christians since--have taken the imperative to accept Christ as our Lord.

Those who renege on this vow, as Matthew states, will never enter the Kingdom, and that, of course, is eternal death.

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[CShephard53]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

A tree is judged by its fruit.

 

[Johnnz]

That's up top God alone. Just work at being Christ like yourself and leave the final conclusions to God.

John
NZ

 

[CShephard53]

1Co 5:9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
1Co 5:10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1Co 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

I think Paul's writing is fairly clear...

 

[heymikey80]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

It's not hard, but you basically have to accept some realities, first. We are limited in how we judge one another. We'd probably all kill each other in self-righteous indignation if we really knew the truth about each other. So our insight is limited and not absolute.

But it does exist.

Romans 10 says "believe in your heart that He is raised from the dead". That little word "believe" is not just the acceptance of a fact. That word meaning is more akin to the English word "rely".

Jesus Himself said that out of the heart come the actions (Mk 7:14-23). If someone's actions are constantly evil, never reforming, these things indicate a heart that is evil, never reforming. The wicked lie, don't they? So the wicked can put up a convincing show that "Oh, I really believe in my heart" - when they don't.

John wrote 1 John to try to help Christians recognize this character in people. It's a tough book because most translations don't give its Greek the attention it deserves. But if you look to 1 John 5, I think you can get what it's saying. Someone who's born of God believes. Someone who's born of God makes a habit of submitting to God's commands. This doesn't mean they're perfect. Far from it, if you read 1 John 1:8-10 you'll find that is not the case, we still sin. But those who do evil and make a habit of justifying themselves aren't submitting to God's commands. That's just clear, isn't it? John thought so too. So how can we say these people actually believe? Well, we can't. Over the longterm we're gradually more and more sure that they don't believe.

Please, this isn't a "knee jerk" judgment to make about someone. Be slow in your judgments. I know times I myself didn't rush to God's protection. In this I am a stupid, slacker son; but God finally does get through to me. Don't pick just one case; we're all slackers in some sense. And we're embarrassed about not doing what we should. We're embarrassed about being creatures damaged by sin. We're all cracked pots. But someone who makes a pattern of doing evil things, especially in defiance of God? How can he be said to be born of God? How might it be said then that he believes? At the least, such a person really shouldn't be followed in his foibles. At worst, if it keeps on & on & on: John is saying the person isn't really a believer in the first place.

 

[Elijah2]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

Plante, there are many Scriptures that explain about eternal life, and Salvation is only one of them.

Salvation is a gift from our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are two-levels of heart soil level, and that depends on the depth that the sower has planted the seed in your heart and others hearts.

There are six levels, such as wayside, rocky, thorny, 30-fold, 60-fold and 100-fold, which is described in Matthew 13 of the Parable of the Sower.

The first three are lukewarm Christians.

Through much deception, seduction, and false teaching I shudder at the thought of some Christian's eternal life, and that will come when the time comes.

Just worry about yourself, and just forgive those who hurt and offend you.

Good old confession, repentance, and forgiveness and love keeps you on that very narrow path.

 

[capnator]

Jam 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Mat 7:26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Jam 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


We aren't saved by faith.
We aren't saved by works

We are saved by GRACE, through faith evidenced with works.

 

[Sketcher]

First, we are not perfect, just forgiven.

Second, faith without works is dead. Meaning if we have faith, there will be works as the output of that faith.

As a new Christian, you should not look to people who flagrantly disobey God as examples. Instead, you should look to Christians who love God, who want to get better and sincerely live for Him. These people may fall, but they get back up and they live their lives for Him seven days a week.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

The bible says if anyone confesses Jesus is lord and believes in heart that He is raised from death by God, then he is saved.
I v met some christians believe every word of bible, but their deed behaviour is evil,
and there is another verse in bible Matt7：21－23 , those people will never enter the kingdom of God.

So, it is hard to make clear who is saved, who is unsaved, who is a real christian, who is not a christian?

Hi, well ultimately we can not know who is saved and who isn't. God knows people's hearts and only He can say for sure. I think that if someone really puts their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit would change them into a better person. There is a difference between just agreeing that He's the Son of God and rose from the dead and actually grasping the implications of that and trusting Him fully. If we do the latter, we shall be saved. Just my opinion.
God bless.

 

[JPPT1974]

Hi, well ultimately we can not know who is saved and who isn't. God knows people's hearts and only He can say for sure. I think that if someone really puts their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit would change them into a better person. There is a difference between just agreeing that He's the Son of God and rose from the dead and actually grasping the implications of that and trusting Him fully. If we do the latter, we shall be saved. Just my opinion.
God bless.

Only Christ knows our hearts and that
We need not to question Him and His judgement!

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Only Christ knows our hearts and that
We need not to question Him and His judgement!

That's true, JPPT

 

[Mister_Al]

Jesus said that all who believe and are baptised shall be saved. And since Jesus is God, and since His words will never pass away I think we should take a closer look at how we gain salvation.

I mean that since God said it, and if He said it He will bring it to pass, and since His word will not return void, then it must be so. Right?

Even if it wasn't needed at first, it became needed the instant God said it, Right?

 

[heymikey80]

Jesus said that all who believe and are baptised shall be saved. And since Jesus is God, and since His words will never pass away I think we should take a closer look at how we gain salvation.

I mean that since God said it, and if He said it He will bring it to pass, and since His word will not return void, then it must be so. Right?

Even if it wasn't needed at first, it became needed the instant God said it, Right?

I can't tell whether you're asking the question honestly or rhetorically, so ... please forgive me if I answer the question plainly. If this is an issue that dissolves into debate I can only say, there's a place in soteriology and sacramentology forums for discussing this.

Jesus may have said all who believe and are baptized shall be saved. It's in a disputed passage of Mark 16, but let's assume for a moment that Jesus said it: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Does it demand both elements? That is, is someone who believes and is not baptized, then not saved?

Actually, it does say what's critical in the next phrase: "... whoever does not believe will be condemned."

There's something important about both of: "believe" and/or "be baptized". But there's only one element whose lack results in condemnation: faith. Baptism is therefore highly important. Look how important Jesus makes it: He places it alongside the essential faith. But it is not essential.

Now, is this passage authentic? I don't know, I didn't hear Jesus say so. But there are other Scriptures that are highly convincing of this point, too. Baptism is highly important -- just not absolutely necessary for salvation.

 

[Ephesians4]

Hi, well ultimately we can not know who is saved and who isn't. God knows people's hearts and only He can say for sure. I think that if someone really puts their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit would change them into a better person. There is a difference between just agreeing that He's the Son of God and rose from the dead and actually grasping the implications of that and trusting Him fully. If we do the latter, we shall be saved. Just my opinion.
God bless.

Totally agree.