How i know that God does exist.

[Wiccan_Child]

Hit and run , people, nothing to see here, keep it moving, come along...

 

[DailyBlessings]

What is your claim that the universe is "definitely God's handiwork" based on, then?

Well, it is. To assume otherwise would be contrary to reason, at least from where I stand. My word was "definitively" though, not "definitely". I would tend to describe whatever first cause might be posited as God, therefore if anything exists, it is definitively the work of God.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Correct. Theists make subjective statements assuming they are objective.

I would say that we tend to make subjective statements not really caring whether they are objective or not- that's atheistic language and it places certain values on objective "proof" that are not intrinsic to theistic philosophy. To suggest that a statement made by a human being is objectively true suggests that a human being can perceive or express anything in an objectively true fashion, a somewhat arrogant claim not to the palate of most people who recognize that the truth is bigger than they are. If anything we try to let the objectively true approach us, rather than the other way around.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Here is a quote from Mark Twain:

"It is not the things we don't know that get us into trouble it is the things we know for sure that just ain't so."

You see religion has several problems with it, one being it says God provides for you. However if God provides for you, then why doesn't God provide for everybody? Why would he be selective? So my question is, if God provides for you, why doesn't God provide for the starving children in Africa? Have you seen pictures of Darfur lately, let's face it, religion has a real problem here that an honest seeker of the truth must take time and ponder it.

Why would God, let you have food pretty much anytime you want, while these people in the Darfur, and the Sahara Desert of Africa get nothing? Why would a caring and loving God not answer their prayers for food? It is a simple request surely if God can give you food, then he can give them food. So what do you think is going on here? Why won't God heal the starving people in Africa while in western countries, we can eat whenever we want, especially with the help of social programs?

There has to be a reason for this, can you find the reason for this?

 

[R3quiem]

a) because we can see God's handiwork all around us.

How do you know it's the Christian god and not some other god's handiwork?

b) because God reveals Himself to Christians, graciously, by The Holy Spirit.

God supposedly reveals himself through the Qur'an too.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Well, it is. To assume otherwise would be contrary to reason, at least from where I stand. My word was "definitively" though, not "definitely".

If assuming otherwise is contrary to reason, you must have a reason for your original assumption. Do you?

I would tend to describe whatever first cause might be posited as God, therefore if anything exists, it is definitively the work of God.

The first cause could be purely natural (a quantum fluctuation, for example). Wouldn't you say that calling such an event "God" is only complicating things?

 

[NavyGuy7]

Here is a quote from Mark Twain:

"It is not the things we don't know that get us into trouble it is the things we know for sure that just ain't so."

You see religion has several problems with it, one being it says God provides for you. However if God provides for you, then why doesn't God provide for everybody? Why would he be selective? So my question is, if God provides for you, why doesn't God provide for the starving children in Africa? Have you seen pictures of Darfur lately, let's face it, religion has a real problem here that an honest seeker of the truth must take time and ponder it.

Why would God, let you have food pretty much anytime you want, while these people in the Darfur, and the Sahara Desert of Africa get nothing? Why would a caring and loving God not answer their prayers for food? It is a simple request surely if God can give you food, then he can give them food. So what do you think is going on here? Why won't God heal the starving people in Africa while in western countries, we can eat whenever we want, especially with the help of social programs?

There has to be a reason for this, can you find the reason for this?

Because the world isn't perfect. And I don't think I like you taking the "Think about the children!" escapism. Besides, if God started miraculously healing everyone then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of coming to Him on our own? Of choosing to be with Him because we WANT to?
Because it says God provides for you does not mean he provides everything all the time, essentially babying you like a spoiled child. Yes, it's sad that not everyone has our luxury in America here. But that doesn't mean you can pin it on God. Doing so seems fairly biased and ignorant, in my opinion.

 

[NavyGuy7]

The first cause could be purely natural (a quantum fluctuation, for example). Wouldn't you say that calling such an event "God" is only complicating things?

I think he said "work of God" not "is God".

 

[DailyBlessings]

If assuming otherwise is contrary to reason, you must have a reason for your original assumption. Do you?

One could say the same for you. I inherited my original assumption, but it still makes the most sense to me to talk about the universe theistically. To do otherwise, for me, would be to ignore vast stretches of human perception and imagination. When you say that the only things which exist are those which can be examined with a certain human paradigm, be it science or rationality or premillenial dispensation, you are ridiculously limiting the concepts and occurrences you will be able to see and understand. From my perspective that is. I am certain beyond all doubt that I too am limited by my own understanding in ways that I do not know or comprehend. However, I'm not about to give up of the slim purchase I have on understanding simply because someone walks up to me and claims that their starting point is a more rational one, when I've never been convinced that this is whatsoever the case.

The first cause could be purely natural (a quantum fluctuation, for example). Wouldn't you say that calling such an event "God" is only complicating things?

I think that a statement like "it's not God, it's a quantum fluctuation" raises rather more questions than it answers. This is a quality of all true things and not an evil, but the statement doesn't accomplish what you'd like it to do. I certainly don't see what is presumably simple about it. Why on earth would a big bang be the work of God, and quantum fluctuation not be? Whatever cause of origin might be derived from science, can only extend to explaining the created universe, with its penchant for order and natural law- it cannot explain why the universe is the way it is to begin with. And that is what philosophies of origin are about- not determining what the first event was, if indeed there was a first event at all, but rather why it occurred. It seems to me that you throw about phrases like "purely natural" without giving them much thought. Both words of that phrase are in fact making some very extreme claims about the nature of the cosmos, and I am not sure that they mean what you think they mean.

(btw, good catch, NavyGuy- it was indeed quite intentionally "the work of God")

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Navy Guy,

There are a lot of starving people in Africa and yes the world is not perfect, and it is important to know that, but I assure you there is only one reason as to why there are starving children in Africa, and pretty much no one is starving to death in America. Under the religious assumption, God provides for you, if that is true, then before eating your dinner yes thank God for your dinner. Now what about the starving African children in Africa who are going without a dinner, why wont God provide them a dinner?

There is only one answer to this problem for religion, and that is to admit "yes God is in fact imaginary and does not answer any prayers, the only answered prayers are really only a coincidence."

I mean I am dead serious what other possible explanation could there be?

Do we live in a world where God runs around our planet creating these sorts of problems to test our faith? Probably not, likely.

The day it dawned on me there was no God was when I was thinking about all the self defense I had to learn to feel safe in Detroit. I mean I studied Ju Jit Su, Sho Ryn Ryu Karate, Tae kwon Do for years. I hated learning that stuff. But I was gun shy and felt I had to know how to really fight off an attack. I went to school in Detroit. So I am learning all this self defense, and I am hearing in Church there is this God, who will protect you and you can trust God, but really, that is not reality. We are not protected by God, and you can't trust God farther than you can throw him. Because you don't know what is coming down the road of life, to real throw you off balance like.

So I am serious there is a real reason to not believe in God, and there is even bettter reason to not trust something that is not there.

We are totally on our own in this life, we get like no help that we cannot buy for ourselves. I am serious, it is a dog eat dog world. And you have to be tough if you are going to make something out of your life.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I think he said "work of God" not "is God".

Whoops, my fault. Sorry.

One could say the same for you. I inherited my original assumption, but it still makes the most sense to me to talk about the universe theistically. To do otherwise, for me, would be to ignore vast stretches of human perception and imagination. When you say that the only things which exist are those which can be examined with a certain human paradigm, be it science or rationality or premillenial dispensation, you are ridiculously limiting the concepts and occurrences you will be able to see and understand.

I have never experienced anything that couldn't be explained by purely naturalistic means, and neither has anyone I heard of. Therefore I don't see what I am limiting myself to.

From my perspective that is. I am certain beyond all doubt that I too am limited by my own understanding in ways that I do not know or comprehend. However, I'm not about to give up of the slim purchase I have on understanding simply because someone walks up to me and claims that their starting point is a more rational one, when I've never been convinced that this is whatsoever the case.

You don't think that unless there is evidence for a certain object or process, we should not assume it exists?

 

[NavyGuy7]

Thanks for recognizing the error. That's all I ask! Heheh.

 

[NavyGuy7]

I have never experienced anything that couldn't be explained by purely naturalistic means, and neither has anyone I heard of. Therefore I don't see what I am limiting myself to.

Ah, but you are still young, assuming your age icon is accurate. Never know!

 

[drifter5]

When The Living God comes in to a person's heart, and indwells him/her by The Holy Spirit, then one knows that God is real. In The Bible it says that The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to God's children. The Holy Spirit softens a person's heart and draws him/ her to God.

 

[UncleHermit]

Yes, for one he reveals himself through his handiwork, the universe. That's one way, at least.

I'm looking at the universe, and I"m not seeing a god.



Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

When The Living God comes in to a person's heart, and indwells him/her by The Holy Spirit, then one knows that God is real. In The Bible it says that The Holy Spirit reveals the things of God to God's children. The Holy Spirit softens a person's heart and draws him/ her to God.

If this were true, there would be no deconversions from Christianity. I submit myself as refutation of this. QED.

 

[drifter5]

If this were true, there would be no deconversions from Christianity. I submit myself as refutation of this. QED.

I thought that i was a christian for years, but in fact i was not a born- again christian. Once you are born- again you can not become unborn. Salvation is all of God,s Grace, and through Jesus alone. There is no Saviour besides Jesus. Jesus Saves. God pardons us because Jesus shed His blood for us on The Cross, taking our place . Jesus is our perfect substitute, turning God's righteous anger , because of our sinful rebellion against God ,away from us. Acts 16:31: " Believe in The Lord Jesus, and you will be saved ." Jesus is The Son of God, and The King of Kings.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I thought that i was a christian for years, but in fact i was not a born- again christian. Once you are born- again you can not become unborn. Salvation is all of God,s Grace, and through Jesus alone. There is no Saviour besides Jesus. Jesus Saves. God pardons us because Jesus shed His blood for us on The Cross, taking our place . Jesus is our perfect substitute, turning God's righteous anger , because of our sinful rebellion against God ,away from us. Acts 16:31: " Believe in The Lord Jesus, and you will be saved ." Jesus is The Son of God, and The King of Kings.

'Born again'? I never got what that meant. Could you explain it to me?

 

[NavyGuy7]

I think something like that is in the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus... or however you spell his name... what gospel was that? Nicodemus was just as confused as you were.

 

[Tenka]

'Born again'? I never got what that meant. Could you explain it to me?

I can help you out.
What it means is that all "Christians" only think they are Christian until such time as they no longer identify as Christian at which point they learn that they never were Christian in the first place.

IOW : There are no Christians, only people who haven't learned that they aren't Christian yet.