The Scriptures and Authority

[Ormly]

as I said, I'm not RC, nor do I wish to persuade you of anything. Rather, to make such charges requires a far deeper understanding, and the statements you have made indicate a somewhat cursory investigation. Again, I don't wish to persuade you; rather
I am encouraging you to look more deeply into the matter.

Cursory? Wrong word. ....Brief.

Sorry about the "RC" assumption but you don't indicate what you are....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Ormly
You wouldn't be a RCC if you knew the truth. However, one must desire truth to learn it.

The "Babel" as in "Babylonian roots" of the RCC speaks loud and clear. Apparently you don't have ears to hear, to make distinctions between truth and error.

Too bad, but the day is coming when it will be louder.

Cursory? Wrong word. ....Brief.

Sorry about the "RC" assumption but you don't indicate what you are....

Does it really matter in the whole scheme of things? Would the Roman church claim to be the "New Priesthood" of today?

Hebrews 7:12 for the Priesthood being changed, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming/ginetai <1096> (5736),

 

[Oblio]

Ormly, you clearly do not understand Eastern Orthodoxy (confusing and conflating it with Roman Catholicism) or Eucharistic Theology. I would suggest you avail yourself of the myriad of data on both prior to discussing either in public.

For the Life of the World - Schmemman is a good primer on the latter.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ormly, you clearly do not understand Eastern Orthodoxy (confusing and conflating it with Roman Catholicism) or Eucharistic Theology. I would suggest you avail yourself of the myriad of data on both prior to discussing either in public.

For the Life of the World - Schmemman is a good primer on the latter.

You and Ormly need to get into a private debate it seems.
I really don't see much to distinquish between the Greek church and Roman church myself [except for the "papacy"]. Does anyone else?

Matthew 21:43 `Thru this I am saying to ye, that shall be being snatched away/arqhsetai <142> (5701) from Ye [Law/Priesthood] the Reign of the God, and it shall be being given to Nation/eqnei <1484> [Grace/Israel/Gentiles?] doing the fruits of her;

 

[Oblio]

I really don't see much to distinquish between the Greek church and Roman church myself. Does anyone else?

Then you aren't looking (or reading)

For one, we have no doctrine of Transubstantiation.

 

[Oblio]

For another, we do not hold to the Western concept of Original sin (from whence flows much of our differences not only with the RCC, but also her spiritual descendants, the Protestants)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Then you aren't looking (or reading)

For one, we have no doctrine of Transubstantiation.

For another, we do not hold to the Western concept of Original sin (from whence flows much of our differences not only with the RCC, but also her spiritual descendants, the Protestants)

You also don't recognize the primacy of Peter relating to the Pope either.

Matthew 11:12 `Yet from the days of John the Baptist till now, the Reign of the Heavens doth suffer violence, and violent-ones/biastai <973> are snatching away/arpazousin <726> (5719) Her,

 

[Oblio]

In reality the RCC and traditional Protestants are closer to one another than either are to Orthodoxy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In reality the RCC and traditional Protestants are closer to one another than either are to Orthodoxy.

What is a traditional Protestant? I am just a humble Christ-ian disciple in Christ myself.

Reve 3:15 I have seen of thee the works, that neither cold/yucroV <5593> thou are, neither boiling/zealous/zestoV <2200>. Owe you! cold you were, or boiling/zealous/zestoV.

 

[Oblio]

What is a traditional Protestant?

The conservative branches of:

Lutherans, Anglicans et. al.

 

[Ormly]

Does it really matter in the whole scheme of things? Would the Roman church claim to be the "New Priesthood" of today?

Do they believe they are?

Hebrews 7:12

for the Priesthood being changed, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming/ginetai <1096> (5736),

Certainly they don't fit that.

Indeed, the whole thing doesn't really matter to me either. I only debate and take issue with it when it presented as gospel. It is not anymore than their claim to be the church of Jesus Christ, which is an organism of believers that no doubt include those in the Roman catholic church, though I have differiculty with that, but more so in the universal, catholic, Church, of which I am a part of.

"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost". Romans 14:17 (KJV)

Only the RCC is meat and drink, testifying to it not being the Kingdom of God as they wish to believe themselves to be.. Can you see this because I speak of the Eucharist? Can you see this contradiction?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Only the RCC is meat and drink, testifying to it not being the Kingdom of God as they wish to believe themselves to be.. Can you see this because I speak of the Eucharist? Can you see this contradiction?

Well, I would be hard pressed to compare them to these guys, as the Roman church is not JEWISH that I know of.

Matt 11:12 `Yet from the days of John the Baptist till now, the Reign of the Heavens doth suffer violence, and violent-ones/biastai <973> are snatching away/arpazousin <726> (5719) Her,

Matt 23:13 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom to-the heavens before the men.
For ye not entering in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.

 

[Ormly]

Ormly, you clearly do not understand Eastern Orthodoxy (confusing and conflating it with Roman Catholicism) or Eucharistic Theology. I would suggest you avail yourself of the myriad of data on both prior to discussing either in public.

For the Life of the World - Schmemman is a good primer on the latter.

No doubt about that. Except for some elementary issues, you are correct. However, what am I missing out on by not embracing EO persuasion? Am I not in Christ by not partaking of the EO thought and practice? Speak of what the Bread and the Wine mean to you if not transubstantiation? Is there significant difference? Please correct me. I like being accurate when presenting my understanding of things.

 

[Ormly]

Duplicate post deleted

 

[Ormly]

Well, I would be hard pressed to compare them to these guys, as the Roman church is not JEWISH that I know of.

Matt 11:12 `Yet from the days of John the Baptist till now, the Reign of the Heavens doth suffer violence, and violent-ones/biastai <973> are snatching away/arpazousin <726> (5719) Her,

Matt 23:13 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom to-the heavens before the men.
For ye not entering in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.

Nor is the Kingdom of God , Jewish.

 

[Oblio]

Am I not in Christ by not partaking of the EO thought and practice?

Dunno. The Church rarely makes pronouncements regarding those outside her visible borders. You are not availing yourself of the more sure way, that we can say.

Tell what does the Bread and the Wine mean to you if not transubstantiation?

What does it mean ? It is not a concept, it is His most Pure Body and Precious Blood.

Is there siginficant difference? Please correct me.

Three things jump to mind:

We do not believe in Transubstantiation.

We believe that the Eucharist is given to us to be partaken of, we do not practice Eucharistic Adoration as is done in the West.

We do not believe that the Gifts are consecrated at a singular point in time.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nor is the Kingdom of God , Jewish.

I agree.
In my view, the Roman church simply practices a form of "gentile judaism". It is no wonder the Orthodox Jews are "confused" with CHRIST-ianity.

Matthew 13:19 Every one hearing the word of the kingdom, and not understanding--the evil-one doth come, and doth snatch away/arpazei <726> (5719) that which hath been sown in his heart; this is that sown by the way.

 

[Kristos]

Duplicate post deleted

I would second Oblio recommendation to read
For the Life of the World - Schmemman

Summary here would be a disservice to the topic.


Sometimes seemingly insignificant difference can metastasize into significance.

 

[Ormly]

I agree.
In my view, the Roman church simply practices a form of "gentile judaism". It is no wonder the Orthodox Jews are "confused" with CHRIST-ianity.

Matthew 13:19 Every one hearing the word of the kingdom, and not understanding--the evil-one doth come, and doth snatch away/arpazei <726> (5719) that which hath been sown in his heart; this is that sown by the way.

RCC practices more along the lines of Babylon than anything Christian or Jewish. The ceremony cannot be related to either camp.

 

[Oblio]

RCC practices more along the lines of Babylon than anything Christian or Jewish.

You base this on what ?