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How to kill Palestinians

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thereselittleflower

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Why do you need proof? Are you trying to prove that the Jews of today are not real Jews?

So you are saying you don't need proof?

If someone comes to you and says they are a Jew, they don't need to prove it?

I hardly think so . . otherwise, you wouldn't need the proof their mother was a Jew. . .

So your question is frivolous and a red herring.

You made the claim that a true Jew was descended from the 12 tribes.

So prove that the Jews today are descended from the 12 tribes.

It is your claim.

Your claim has been challenged.

The burden of proof is on you.

Yes, I demand proof.

Without such proof, your claims are a empty as the wind.


The issue is, YOU CAN'T prove that you or any other person calling themselves a Jew are descended from the 12 tribes . . .


And there in lies your very real problem and very big hole you have dug for yourself.


You cannot prove that any person alive today has any claim on the Land promised to Abraham . . . .


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thereselittleflower

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The reason the Israeli's do not get along with the Palestinians might have something to do with the PLO throwing grenades into school buildings.

...just a hunch.

Horsefeathers!

The Jewish zionists started doing it to the Palestinians way before the Palestinians did it to the Israelis. . . .

You really need to investigate the history of this conflict much more deeply, for otherwise, such "hunches" as you have go far afield of the facts. . . .

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thereselittleflower

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Well you clearly get your marching orders from the pope and the church who has killed millions over the past 1900 years

You really need a reality check regarding what you think is history.

so don't talk to me about "human rights violations"!

I will talk to you about anything I feel like talking to you about!

Do NOT presume that you can order me around young man.


And sense you are so concerned about the "rights" of others then why don't you discuss Saudi Arabia or Pakistan instead of Israel when other country's have done worse to their own people and others?

I have already asnwered that question, weren't you paying attention? Is this how you "study" history too?

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Servant222

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Tell me why should Israel's right to exist be recognized if the Palestinian's own rights and lives are not recognized?

For the same reason that the Jordanians and Egyptians recognized Israel- to be able to live in peace, prosperity and harmony.

Why not volunteer your home and family homes and lands?

Sure- I'd be all for allowing those who renounce violence to immigrate to my country. And I bet most Palestinian families would take advantage of the offer.

Then I'd be able to bring them to my church and try introducing them to a God who truly loves them.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I also suggest you do a little research.


I stopped listening to Steve Berry's The Alexandria Link is that this book is evil

I mean that this book, to the degree that it is read by people ignorant of history (i.e., practically everybody), will move us closer to a future in which our society permits or even approves of the murder of Jews and the destruction of the state of Israel.


Wait! This book is fiction! How could it have such an effect?
Well, it can't -- not all by itself. Its effect is incremental. But it's real.
Here's how it works.
At the beginning of the book, we are shown a Palestinian during the 1948 war over the creation of the state of Israel. The scene is about how this Palestinian has been torturing a man he captured in order to find out what he is doing; then he kills him. But the torture is not treated in the fiction as anything other than a regrettable necessity; later, the character does in fact regret his actions that day.
That's not what makes this book evil. No, it's the fact that Berry sets this scene against a background in which Israelis are systematically driving all the Palestinians out of Israel; the Israelis are heavily armed by the British while the Palestinians have no weapons to counter them; and the Israelis have rounded up whole villages of Palestinians and slaughtered them, men and women alike.
These things are not what the scene is about. They are slipped in as background; they are treated as if they were the sort of thing that was really going on in Palestine in 1948.
This is the kind of thing that readers -- especially ones who don't know anything about history -- are likely to assume the writer has researched, so that it can be trusted. The book is fiction, so we know this particular character did not torture and kill the other guy -- that part is obviously made up. But the background is assumed to be real. And readers often come out of books like this thinking they now know something about the real world.
In fact, what Berry is providing is pure propaganda -- the propaganda created by terrorists and murderers to "prove" that Jews "deserve" to be blown up by suicide bombers. It is exactly as reliable as the widely-believed propaganda lie that either President Bush or the state of Israel -- or both -- actually carried out the 9/11 attacks in order to provide a pretext for invading innocent Muslim countries.
(Oddly, the same liars who make this claim often turn around and talk about how proud they are that Islam stood up against the West on 9/11. Which is it? Why would you be proud of it if you didn't do it? They know they're lying; the incredible thing is that so many supposed intellectuals in the West believe it, or pretend to.)
The truth -- the well-documented historical truth -- is that the British did not arm the Israelis. They blocked all attempts by the Israelis to arm themselves. Every weapon that the Israeli army had in 1948 was smuggled in. While the "poor, unarmed Palestinians" were supported by the fully-armed military forces of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt. The Arabs had the military advantage, in numbers and in weaponry.
Furthermore, while there were places where Israelis encouraged Muslims to flee, it was not a systematic effort, and many of those who fled did so at the well-documented insistence of Muslim leaders, who wanted Muslims out of the way so they could set about the business of slaughtering Jews. Only Israeli courage and audacity in combat prevented the genocidal outcome intended by the Arabs who defied the United Nations by trying to destroy Israel at the moment of its creation.
At the end of the war, the reason there was no Palestinian state is not because the Israelis prevented it. It was because the Arab nations prevented it -- Egypt took over the rule of the Gaza Strip and Jordan ruled the West Bank, declaring it to be part of their national territory and suppressing any attempt to create a Palestinian state there. As for wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians by Israelis, it didn't happen. Nowhere, not in 1948, and not since then. A lot of people think it has happened because of propaganda. Like when the media was full of reports, during the intifadeh, that Israelis had massacred hundreds or thousands of Palestinians in Jenin. Later, sober investigation showed that no such thing had happened -- that, on the contrary, Israelis had suffered needless casualties on their own side because of the extraordinary lengths they went to to prevent civilian casualties on the other side.

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2007-02-18-1.html

Carey, do you make a habit of raising Red Herrings like this?

You're the only one talking about "The Alexandria Link" . .. no one else here probably even knows what it is . . I surely didn't.

So if you are trying to imply we have read this book and somehow been unduly influenced by it, you are fabtricating pure fairytales. . . .


And by the way, the information you posted to defend your position is so lopsided it isn't funny . . .

Nothing you posted above has any real bearing on the facts of the matter.

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thereselittleflower

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If the world supports our enemies then they will suffer for it. As a nuclear strike would only be used if Israel was attacked by many nations at once where by the end was inevitable and thus the end of the world would soon come so if that happens the goy would have no one to blame but themselves.

So, this world belongs to the Jews to dispose of however they wish?


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Carey

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Carey, do you make a habit of raising Red Herrings like this?

You're the only one talking about "The Alexandria Link" . .. no one else here probably even knows what it is . . I surely didn't.

So if you are trying to imply we have read this book and somehow been unduly influenced by it, you are fabtricating pure fairytales. . . .


And by the way, the information you posted to defend your position is so lopsided it isn't funny . . .

Nothing you posted above has any real bearing on the facts of the matter.

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The fact is no matter what info is put before you you will blow it off unless its what you want to hear...LOL

The fact is the Palestinians are the far worse of the 2 evils.

The Muslim palestinians even when they govern themselves have constant war between themselves.
Islam has made it impossible for Christian Palestinians to ever have peace and prosperity .
No matter how many words you use trying to blame the Israeli Government you cannot change this fact.
 
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thereselittleflower

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First of all don't quote a verse that denotes the life span of a slave as you have not provided the verse discussing the promise that G-d gives the land of Israel to us Jews for all time, you are simply trying to use another verse to justify what you want.
Your demand is frivolous, unwarranted and without merit.

The word OLAM is used in both verses. You already presented the other verse. I don't need to present it again.

All I need do is demonstrate how this word OLAM actually is used to refer to an age of unknown duration, whether short or long, which has a beginning and an end, and does not refer to unending time.


And this is the best respnse you can muster . . . .


Thank you for demonstrating you have no valid response to prove your claims.

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thereselittleflower

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Carey, your response is nothing more than a string of one logical fallacy after another.

The fact is no matter what info is put before you you will blow it off unless its what you want to hear...LOL

Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.

The fact is the Palestinians are the far worse of the 2 evils.

Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.

The Muslim palestinians even when they govern themselves have constant war between themselves.
Islam has made it impossible for Christian Palestinians to ever have peace and prosperity .
No matter how many words you use trying to blame the Israeli Government you cannot change this fact.

Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.


You have produced NOT ONE FACT.

You have only shared your opinion, as misinformed as it is.


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Carey

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Carey, your response is nothing more than a string of one logical fallacy after another.



Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.



Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.



Logical Fallacy: Assumes Facts Not In Evidence.

Logical Fallacy: Ignores Facts in Evidence.


You have produced NOT ONE FACT.

You have only shared your opinion, as misinformed as it is.


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Thank you for proving my point :thumbsup: ^_^
 
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thereselittleflower

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Yes, we know all about the suffering of the Palestinians, no one would wish that upon anyone- but it is being perpetrated by their own present actions, or at least the actions of their leaders.

Never mind the past; we can't change that- but we can change the future.

Never mind the past? :eek:

It is the PAST that is dictating our present and our future!


Without dealing with the PAST we cannont fix the present or the future.


All else is naivity or worse.


So put the politics and the religion of the land as a whole aside for now and concentrate on one question:

What will help an ordinary Palestinian family live a better life? A life where they have access to health care, a good job, religious freedom, prosperity, education, peace, security?

To me, the best answer is this:

Allow that family to move to a country like Germany, France, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, or the U.S.A.

Give them free housing for a year, a living allowance, language lessons, and free schooling and health care. My bet is that the vast majority would jump at the chance. And I bet that would cost a lot less than all the armaments and security measures we're presently spending our money on.

In other words, do EXACTLY what ZIONISM WANTS!

REMOVE the Palestininans so the the JEWS can take over their land, possess it, and thus REDEEM/SAVE IT!

So, let's give the Zionists what they want. Let's let them use terror to drive out the Palestinians into a plan such as yours.

After all, that has always been their goal . . .drive out the Palestinians . .give them no choice. . . make their life a living hell so that they will go, one way or the other and leave the land of Palestine to the Jews.


What a great plan. Let's reward the evil Zionists have perpetrated on the Palestinians by giving the Zionists EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT!

Is this for real? :mad:


And if you don't like that, then here's the second option that the Palestinians have:

Recognize Israel's right to exist, stop all attacks on the country, renounce violence, and embrace the rule of law. Kind of like what Jordan and Egypt have already done, and have prospered from as a result.

It must begin with Israel and its zionist leaders and policies . . .they must be thrown out, the salvation/redemption of the land goal and policies must be denied and utterly rejected by all. The IRON WALL must cease, and the land stolen from the Palestinians must be returned, and equal rights given to ALL citizens of Israel, including the right to own land and the right of immigration, etc.

You have your eye on the wrong piece of the pie . . . .


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thereselittleflower

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You are a descendent of Abraham if you adhere to the covenant that G-d made with him. Granted converts are not direct descendants but nonetheless all Jews are of him.

Baloney Tanakh!

You earlier said that goyim could not convert to Judaism!

Now you are saying that if they do, they become descendents of Abraham and true Jews!

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


And no, someone who converts and is born of stock not descended biologically from Abraham is NOT decended from Abraham.

Descent is a matter of BIOLOGICS, not a issue of faith.

So, you are proving to us even further that no one can prove they are descended from Abraham Isaac and Jacob today . .

NO ONE.

So, since the promises given to Abraham only applied to his SEED, ie BIOOGICAL DESCENDENTS from him, there is no one today who can prove they would be the heirs of his promises.

So there is no one today who can make ANY legitimate claim to this land even if the promises were still in effect.

This only goes to prove further that they are no longer in effect!


What makes a Jew a Jew is following the 613 commands, believing that the Torah is the word of G-d that He dictated to Moses on Mount Sinai, have a Jewish mother or had a conversion the was in accordance with Jewish law and to live according to Jewish law; this is it in its most basic sense but this does not mean that if you simply follow the commandments that this alone makes someone Jewish as it takes much more than that. And yes we Jews are the sole descendants of Abraham and the covenant that was made with him.

Following the law may make a person a religious Jew, but that does not and can never make them suddenly BIOLOGICALLY DECENDED from Abraham . . .

Only BIOLOGICAL DESCENT can do so . . . .

You are from a family of converts aren't you . . . .

:)


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Servant222

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Never mind the past? :eek:



Sorry- this will never, ever happen. As long as the Palestians can't believe and accept this, they will get absolutely nothing but more war, misery, and destruction.

Why can't you accept that the only way forward is to do what the Egyptians and Jordanians did- forget the past and move forward in peace and harmony.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Here is the wall on the drive up to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem- horrible and ugly. Imagine if one day you woke up to find you could no longer just walk over and enjoy a conversation with your neighbour.

TheWall.jpg


So it is easy to accuse Israel of being the villian here.

But if we look at the history of the wall, we find that Israel never expressed any intention whatsoever of building such an ugly and expensive structure- until the suicide bombing started becoming an almost weekly affair.

Inexcusable!

This physical wall is merely an extention of the already existing IRON WALL Policies and agendas of the Zionist goverment and military in Israel.

And this physical extention of the IRON WALL is built primarily well within Palestinian lands, cutting people off from each other and their own fields, denying them the ability to earn a living, effectively annexing thousands upon thousands of acres to Israel, simply by the simple fact they are now on the wrong side of the wall.

This wal extends and intensifies the IRON WALL's effects that have been in place for almost a century.

Even as it was being planned, it was very controversial. But everytime that moderate voices seemed to prevail, another Palestinian would walk onto a bus somewhere and indiscriminately blow another group of men, woman, children up.

Which only shows you how effective the IRON WALL has been to cause the Palestinains to be reduced to such acts. And this only goes to show how effective this IRON WALL policy has been in brushing aside the moderate, more sane, voices in Israel.

All the government had to do was incite the Palestinians long enough, and then sit back and watch it all unravel to the betterment of their cause.


Ask anyone in Jerusalem today whether the wall did what it was supposed to do. Can you even remember when the last suicide bombing happened?

Of course it did what it was superficially claimed to do . . . . and it has done much, much, MUCH more . . . .

And there is still more to come . . . .

The oppression of the Palestinians by the gvernment of Israel will continue until one of two things happens.

1) they succeed in drivng the Palestinians to the point of utter and total hopelessness so that they can control the Palestinians easily, or

2) Political zionism, and its racist, terrorist policies come to an utter end, so a NEW Israel and Palestine can emerge governend by true democracy from this horrendous situation that exists today.

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