Israel does not permit civil marriages or marriages between Jews and non Jews

[thereselittleflower]

Hertenza, this is simply a tactic to avoid debate, especially considering what you have said in the thread thus far.

No one has attacked you, just drawn out into the open what you have done in this thread thus far, which has only been to avoid and confuse.

You have not dealt with the actual issue rasied by this thread, which is the racist polices of the state of Israel . . . .

If you don't want to debate the real issue, that's fine. If this is what you need to do in order to avoid doing so, then fine.


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[gwynedd1]

And I just showed you where the "green light" has been given in Israel for civil marriages to take place. Your point is moot.

Hello Hentenza,

I find your intepretation of even the article you posted rather bizaar.

The suggested law is only meant to apply when both partners are not considered Jewish according to the Halacha (Jewish law), although they may be considered Jewish in the eyes of the secular public (for example, the son of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother).

As usual we are dealing with the cameleon of what a Jew is depending on the point that they wish to make, probably in their favor. Being a Christian, I have a claim to be a Jew BTW(accoding to Paul I may be one inwardly). Is it race, religion , culture? Both? None of the above, if we use the Bible. Its a relationship with God if we are using the Bible. Uriah the Hittite lived as a Jew. So he was a Jew. Anyone in Abaraham's house who lived according to the covenant was within the covenant. All a Jew really was is one living in a covenant with God. By Christian standards that can only mean Christians.

It is obviously outside Halacha to marry a non-Jew but a religious Jew, because the whole point was to prevent turning away from God which an atheist labor Zionist already has. Your post does absolutely nothing to support you but rather refutes your position. In terms of Judasism , as a faith, the Halaka is obvios and the same as our concept of intermarriage with only Christians.

Deuteronomy 7

When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you—the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations mightier and more numerous than you— 2and when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. 3Do not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4for that would turn away your children from following me, to serve other gods.

The laws concerning Israel is simply a corruption of the concept and turned into having a Jewish mother. The state law is obviously race based, not faith based and there is no CC comparison or Christian comparison to that. No one is going to call Israel a race based state because it is politically incorrect. Since mothers have a lot to do with what race you are, only liars, idiots or the delusional may consider it anything else.

The legitamate question is: Is it right or wrong to have a race based state? If it is not, then why the exception here?

 

[Nimrauko]

Article from the Jewish maazine Haaretz.com exposes more of the racism inherent in Israeli policies and laws:

The burial of civil marriage

Israeli citizens are divided by law into 12 religious groups. Each person is born into his own group: The Jew whose mother is Jewish is subject to the tyranny of the rabbis, the Muslim to that of the kadis, and the Druze have their own religious leaders, as do the Christians, the Armenians and all the others. And they cannot marry one another, since Israel has no civil marriage. This entire arrangement of no civil marriage, in a country that pretends to be democratic, came into the world only in order to preserve the purity of the Jewish genius.

..... a "Jew" according to their definition was "someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or who converted and is not a member of another religion."

In Israel there are over 300,000 men and women whose mothers are not Jewish [and who are not converts].

....That is how the purity of Judaism, which is preserved under the watchful eye of the religious establishment and the justice minister, is preventing some of the citizens of this country and their children from assimilating among the citizens of the state who have Jewish mothers. It's true that they'll attend the same educational institutions, will study Hebrew and Bible and history - but they will not be allowed to marry "kosher" Jews, because we are the Chosen People, holy seed.


..... [Regarding a proposal of establishing a religion-less class of people so they can marry among themselves, but not Jews] Apparently this proposal suits a society of messianists, who are longing to return to the days of Yehoshua bin Nun, when it comes to the occupation of the land, and a return to the times of the Temple and the sacrifices.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=887462
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Hasn't this happened before in the last hundred years where the racial/ethic citizens of a country were not permitted to marry those of another race/ethnic group? . . . . .


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Its merely to stop the diminishing of our faith. We are like any other people whom wish to prosper. Judaism cant prosper with interfaith marriages where the child will be brought up outside of Judaism.

 

[Servant222]

O.K. they discourage interracial marriages in order to support their religion and ensure that children in Israel are brought up Jewish.

Using the standards in the U.S., this smacks of racism. Big deal- so they aren't a model of perfection yet- but at least they have a society that, compared to the Palestinians next door in Gaza, is essentially free from violence and terror, has the rule of law, respects individual freedoms, has a flourishing economy, respects religious freedom, etc. etc.

My guess is that a Jewish guy who walked into Gaza and asked either the religious or government authorities for permission to marry a Palestinian lady would fare a lot worse.

I think you're focussing on the splinter and ignoring the plank.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Its merely to stop the diminishing of our faith. We are like any other people whom wish to prosper. Judaism cant prosper with interfaith marriages where the child will be brought up outside of Judaism.

That merely means one is claimng that racism is justified by the end desired . ..

so . . the ends justify the means.

It is still racism, pure and simple, any way you look at it.

The reasons are given simply to condone something reprehensible and totally contrary to Christian faith and morals.

I have to ask given your faith icon . . . are you a christian? I don't know if you wandered in here by mistake, but this area is for Chrsitians who adhere to the Nicene Creed . . . Your faith icon says you follow Judaism, not Christianity . . . .

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[thereselittleflower]

O.K. they discourage interracial marriages in order to support their religion and ensure that children in Israel are brought up Jewish.

Using the standards in the U.S., this smacks of racism. Big deal- so they aren't a model of perfection yet- but at least they have a society that, compared to the Palestinians next door in Gaza, is essentially free from violence and terror, has the rule of law, respects individual freedoms, has a flourishing economy, respects religious freedom, etc. etc.

My guess is that a Jewish guy who walked into Gaza and asked either the religious or government authorities for permission to marry a Palestinian lady would fare a lot worse.

I think you're focussing on the splinter and ignoring the plank.

"Big deal" ????

Racism is contrary to Chrsitian faith and morals.

Christians are supporting a racist state.

That is indeed a big deal. If it were not for the constant call of certain christian groups to support Israel at all costs, and if it were not for the excessive financial and political support these chrsitian groups succeed in prodding the US to provide to Israel, there would be no need to point such things out so clearly above all other problems that exist in the world.

But when Christians support such a state with such policies, and succeed in getting their government to do so also to s uch a great extent, it needs to be exposed for what it is .. . most christians who support Israel are totally ignorant of such issues.


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[Nimrauko]

That merely means one is claimng that racism is justified by the end desired . ..

so . . the ends justify the means.

It is still racism, pure and simple, any way you look at it.

The reasons are given simply to condone something reprehensible and totally contrary to Christian faith and morals.

I have to ask given your faith icon . . . are you a christian? I don't know if you wandered in here by mistake, but this area is for Chrsitians who adhere to the Nicene Creed . . . Your faith icon says you follow Judaism, not Christianity . . . .

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Well Christians are just as bad. And secondly I dont very well care what A christian feels about it, Its a Jewish thing. You wouldnt want your daughter marrying a Pagan and having that pagan convert your grand child to that faith. Same thing. We dont want Pagan faiths mixing with ours. Its in no way racial beings THERE ARE JEWS OF ALL RACES AND COLORS.
*And by the way I am jewish, and I dont follow the nicene creed to be a member of this site, nor shall I adhere to it. You want to fine, but I am most certainly not, and I will not allow you spread to lies about Israel, so whether or not this is christian only is irrelevant.*

 

[Servant222]

TLF: You think the Palestinians, Iraqi's, Egyptians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Jordanians are less "racist" than Israel?

 

[Micah68]

TLF: You think the Palestinians, Iraqi's, Egyptians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Jordanians are less "racist" than Israel?

I can answer this one, being able to visit family in Jordan often, they are definitely not in the least bit as racist as Israel. I have never felt more welcomed or treated with such kindness and respect as I did in Jordan, and I am a good ol' gal from the deep south in the U.S of A. born and raised and Christian on top of that.

 

[Micah68]

Now there are many (more and more daily) wonderful people in Israel working for a true and just peace. Not every Israeli is a zionist.

Where Is The Occupation?

Editorial
In Haaretz (Israel)
October 3, 2007

The occupied territories and the Palestinians living there are slowly becoming virtual realities, distant from the eye and the heart. Palestinian workers have disappeared from our streets. Israelis no longer enter Palestinian towns for shopping. There is a new generation on each side that does not know the other. Even the settlers no longer meet Palestinians because of the different road systems that distinguish between the two populations; one is free and mobile, the other stuck at the roadblocks.

While the politicians argue over dividing the land between two peoples, the public is apathetic. The people feel that the division has already taken place. The disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the evacuation of Gush Katif, the construction of a separation barrier - the problem is solved to our satisfaction. The settlers are conducting a settlement policy of their own, taking over new areas, expanding settlements, anything to prevent a permanent solution. They are also sa...

Read entire article

 

[Tanakh]

A Jew cannot marry a gentile (or visa versa) as this would lead to assimilation and is forbidden (it is punishable by death as it constitutes leaving the faith) and if you don't like the law which was not instituted by the secular Israeli government but by G-d then take your issue with the law up with Him.

 

[Nimrauko]

A Jew cannot marry a gentile (or visa versa) as this would lead to assimilation and is forbidden (it is punishable by death as it constitutes leaving the faith) and if you don't like the law which was not instituted by the secular Israeli government but by G-d then take your issue with the law up with Him.

May Hashem bless you!
I could not have said it better myself

 

[Micah68]

A Jew cannot marry a gentile (or visa versa) as this would lead to assimilation and is forbidden (it is punishable by death as it constitutes leaving the faith) and if you don't like the law which was not instituted by the secular Israeli government but by G-d then take your issue with the law up with Him.

Well of course not, I mean they are trying so hard to build that majority.

II. Israel / Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1914-2005) B. Chart (Sources & Notes)http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html#sources1http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html#sources1

Year​

Jews​

Arabs​

Total​

% of Jews to Total​

191460,000731,000791,0007.585%192283,790668,258752,04811.141%1931174,606858,7081,033,31416.897%1941474,1021,111,3981,585,50029.902%19501,203,0001,172,1002,375,10050.650%19601,911,3001,340,1003,251,40058.783%1970 *2,582,0001,045,0003,627,00071.188%19803,282,7002,100,0005,382,70060.986%19954,495,1003,506,9008,002,00056.173%20055,275,7005,139,10010,414,80050.656%http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html

 

[Tanakh]

May Hashem bless you!
I could not have said it better myself

May HASHEM bless and guide you!

Le-shanah ha-ba'ah be-Yerushalayim!!!!!!!!

 

[Servant222]

I can answer this one, being able to visit family in Jordan often, they are definitely not in the least bit as racist as Israel. I have never felt more welcomed or treated with such kindness and respect as I did in Jordan, and I am a good ol' gal from the deep south in the U.S of A. born and raised and Christian on top of that.

I can't make any comment about racism, but I agree with you that the Jordanians are an awfully friendly bunch; we had nothing but good times visiting there earlier this year.

The peace agreement between Israel, Egypt and Jordan I think has immensely benefitted all parties.

For a society to grow and prosper, both economically and culturally, you must first have peace and mutual respect. Egypt and Jordan are examples of what can happen when leaders like Anwar Sadat and King Hussein have the vision to renounce violence, and learn to live in harmony.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the earth.

 

[Tanakh]

Well of course not, I mean they are trying so hard to build that majority.


II. Israel / Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1914-2005) B. Chart (Sources & Notes) Year

Jews
Arabs
Total
% of Jews to Total​

191460,000731,000791,0007.585%192283,790668,258752,04811.141%1931174,606858,7081,033,31416.897%1941474,1021,111,3981,585,50029.902%19501,203,0001,172,1002,375,10050.650%19601,911,3001,340,1003,251,40058.783%1970 *2,582,0001,045,0003,627,00071.188%19803,282,7002,100,0005,382,70060.986%19954,495,1003,506,9008,002,00056.173%20055,275,7005,139,10010,414,80050.656%http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html

G-d commanded us Jews to have children and to teach them the laws of G-d so I don't see your point in showing the rise in the number of Jews living in Israel when we are commanded to dwell their and carry out G-d's laws. Granted I hate Israel being a secular state but I can only imagine what you would say if Israel were to be a true Torah nation (Theocracy) which is what Israel must become as this is what Israel as always been destined to be. You have said that you are not against Judaism but only against the actions of Israel's current government and yet I can guarantee you that if Israel were to become a Theocracy, the regime of the Torah, then the "Palestinians" will surly be destroyed. I am very sure you would not want that and sense G-d commands Israel to destroy those within the Biblical borders as well as to destroy those who hate Israel but love its enemies then clearly you hate us Jews and G-d's law because no one can love our enemies and then claim they love us as well. You are a hypocrite to say you love Judaism but then say you think the "Palestinians" deserve more. They deserve nothing more then what we Jews are commanded to do to them which is to completely destroy them so now tell me do you really hate the Israeli government or are you really out to stick it to us Jews? In this I am a bit confused with what you say for how can you be for us when you are against the very mandate (the Torah) that says the very thing you so detest; the "mistreatment" of "Palestine" is what you hate and yet the Torah (Jewish law) says to destroy them. So tell me do you still love Judaism or are you just simply delusional?

 

[thereselittleflower]

A Jew cannot marry a gentile (or visa versa) as this would lead to assimilation and is forbidden (it is punishable by death as it constitutes leaving the faith) and if you don't like the law which was not instituted by the secular Israeli government but by G-d then take your issue with the law up with Him.

This is not limited to a religion, but also appies to Jews by birth who are atheist or any other religion.

That doesn't make it any less racist now does it?

The racist element is there, loud and strong.

As a Chrisitan, I cannot support such a racist ideology or the state or religion that embraces it.

I don't have to take it up with God. He has already told us that in Christ there is No JEW or gentile . .

We live in the NEW Covenant for a reason . . . the Old was made obsolete and has passed away. Such laws as you are referring to no longer apply.

You are demonstrating very well for us what applying such ancient laws, meant for a different time and place and society, results in . . . Racism!

.

 

[Nimrauko]

This is not limited to a religion, but also appies to Jews by birth who are atheist or any other religion.

That doesn't make it any less racist now does it?

The racist element is there, loud and strong.

As a Chrisitan, I cannot support such a racist ideology or the state or religion that embraces it.

I don't have to take it up with God. He has already told us that in Christ there is No JEW or gentile . .

We live in the NEW Covenant for a reason . . . the Old was made obsolete and has passed away. Such laws as you are referring to no longer apply.

You are demonstrating very well for us what applying such ancient laws, meant for a different time and place and society, results in . . . Racism!

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So you are saying that god is fallable or makes mistakes. You just claimed that something he created and set in place became obselite. So you think about that before claiming fowl or racism. How about when CHRISTIANS said that only two whites could marry, and that a black and a white could not. I dont know if that made any point, but christianity is just as flawed in the marriage department. And as I recall you can have interfaith marriages in israel, but you wont find an orthodox or conservative rabbi who would be willing to do it.

 

[Tanakh]

This is not limited to a religion, but also appies to Jews by birth who are atheist or any other religion.

That doesn't make it any less racist now does it?

The racist element is there, loud and strong.

As a Chrisitan, I cannot support such a racist ideology or the state or religion that embraces it.

I don't have to take it up with God. He has already told us that in Christ there is No JEW or gentile . .

We live in the NEW Covenant for a reason . . . the Old was made obsolete and has passed away. Such laws as you are referring to no longer apply.

You are demonstrating very well for us what applying such ancient laws, meant for a different time and place and society, results in . . . Racism!

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How is it racism as it is a religious law! Any Jew no matter if they are religious or not has to follow the law and if they refuse then they will be killed, pure and simple. Jesus is NOT the messiah so the "new" covenant does not apply and sense you say you as a Christian cannot support such a "racist state or religion" that embraces these laws then why don't you come over to Israel get a Kassam rocket and start launching your hatred at Israel otherwise keep your mouth shut. And I as a Jew cannot fathom a religion such as Christianity who uses the Torah to say Jesus was the messiah and turn around and tell us that the "old law" does not apply because the "new law" overrides the Torah. This is pure stupidity as nowhere in the Torah does it allude to Jesus as the messiah. We Jews follow the Torah and if you don't like the laws that G-d commanded us to follow then that is to bad.

 

[thereselittleflower]

So you are saying that god is fallable or makes mistakes.

No, I am saying that your zionist interpretation of Judaism and the OT is what is fallible and a mistake. Many, many torah believing Jews agree and look upon the State of Isarel as an abomination.

You just claimed that something he created and set in place became obselite.

That is what our scriptures tell us. That is what was demonstrated to the world in 70AD.

So you think about that before claiming fowl or racism.

I have, a great deal. I say it because it is true BY DEFNITION.

The "why" does not change the "What". . . . you are trying to use your "why" to make the "What" something other than it really is . .

In otherwords, you are trying to use the Law from the Old Covenant to make the RACISM that you embrace something other than racism.

The Law you claim is God's will that you use to day does not change what Israel is doing into something other than Racism . . . it is still Racism.

How about when CHRISTIANS said that only two whites could marry, and that a black and a white could not. I dont know if that made any point, but christianity is just as flawed in the marriage department.

First of all, Chrsitianity never said that. . . some christians said that. Chrisitanity never taught that. That is not a teaching of Christianity.

Second of all, we are not talking about a religion, but about a SECULAR STATE - a GOVERNMENT - a SECULAR ENTITY.

When the United States did that, the United States was racist.

Israel is doing it today . . that makes Israel racist.

This is a simple fact by definition.

And as I recall you can have interfaith marriages in israel, but you wont find an orthodox or conservative rabbi who would be willing to do it.

No you can't have interfaith marriages . . . . Look again . . .

And again, this is not about a religion, but what a SECULAR STATE is doing . . . making and implementing racist policies and laws.

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