Israel does not permit civil marriages or marriages between Jews and non Jews

[thereselittleflower]

Zionism is not a movement it is Judaism,

Horsefeathers! Baloney!

No it isn't. The only Jews who make such a claim are Zionists . . . non zionists are very well aware that this nothing but zionist propaganda to try to make political zionism appear respectable.

it is the modern zionists that I am against because they are not for Judaism but the further secularization of the state.

That political zionism - what you are revealing you embrace here in this and other threads - is divided between those who are religious and those who are secular makes no difference.

It has nothing to do with the idea of zion long cherished by Jews, a spiritual Zion. Political Zionism had its birth in the 1800's, so unless you claiming that Judaism didn't exist until the 1800's, by definition Zionism is not Judaism.

The Political Zionist movement hijacked the name "Zionism" and Judaism, to try to bring about the the creation of a state and take over of Palestine.

We can go through the entire hsitory if you want. .. we can expose the lies that Zionism perpetuated in order to convince Jews to support this movement and its goals. We can go over how the Zionist movement is to blame for the holocoaust, how its actions deliberately inflated the numbers into the millions. . . . . how the zionists offered european Jews as "so much moral and economic dust" as a sacrifice to sway world opinion to their side for Eretz Israel , how the zionists themselves offered to fight on Hitler's side with Hitler's forces towards that end. . . . I have demonstrated this all before from primary soruces. . . . shall we do so again?

You have been supporting and proclaiming the policies and ideologies of political zionism by everything you have stated . . holding to the party line to save the Land.

Tell us .. . is all of Eretz Israel "Saved" yet? What must happen for Eretz Israel to be "saved"?

Please explain this to us . . .

The state is the religion and the religion is the state,

The mantra of Zionism!

Baloney! Unless you are willing to claim that Atheism is the religion of Israel, this is utterly false on its face. The religious Jews in Israel are far outnumbered by the secular, atheistic Jews.

Zionism is an ideology with the goal of possessing all the land from the Euphrates to the Sea to the River of Egypt - Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq . . . . they had Palestine to start with . .. .Palestine is only the beginning. Isn't that right?

however with the secular state that does apply but if Israel were a religious state this would be the case.

Israel is not a religious state.. . .

And by the way because Israel is a democracy it is this that is harming Israel as this is being done internally rather then by our enemies.

Isarel is a "democracy" for only a portion of its citizens, the Jews, which means it is no democracy at all . . .it's a political regime that tries to pass itself off as a democracy . . It is a police state, founded on communist principles . . . shall we get into this?

Democracy is for losers

and so you prove my point . .. . it is not a real democracy at all for Zionism DESPISES democracy!

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating this for us!

The "democracy" that esists there now is a sham - a show for the benefit of the Western powers Israel has so desperately needed . .

In fact, would you like to explain how the Zionists planned their rise on the world scene, to attach themselves to the greatest world power, America to do so? America was an essential part of the Zionist plan to take Palestine, spoken of quite plainly in their own writings predating WWII.

for it is THEOCRACY that is for us Jews.

Of course - for you Zionists . . .

A zionist theocracy that flaunts God's commands on how to treat the strangers among you, unabshedly intent on the destruction of all non-Jews occupying the land the zionists want, as you have so clearly demonstrated for us here.

You are unabashedly of the old Political zionist school . . . not too many are willing to state such things as you have so bluntly . . ..

If a Jew deliberately disobeys the Sabbath for instance it does not matter if the person is religious or not they are to be executed by stoning.

This is what you support people!

The same applies to marriage as this event is very sacred and a Jew cannot just marry anyone they please outside of Judaism. Israel is not meant to be a Democracy

See this people! Listen up! This is the absolute truth!

Israel is NOT meant to be a democracy!

This is ZIONISM!

which is one of the reasons why Israel cannot truly fulfill its mandate for the only way it can is Theocratic rule. And by the way racism is hate of another race so I fail to see how a ban on marriage outside of religion is racism but then again everything seems to be racism to you especially if it is in Israel.

Racism is hate of another race . . . it is also discrimination of another race, either in its favor or against . .. there are many levels of racism, and only the extreme levels are hate.

Yet, you have called for the destruction/annihilation of Palestinians - ie GENOCIDE!

If that is not hate of another race, and by your own definition racism, I don't know what is . . .

You are clearly demonstrating the racist ideology of Zionism!

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

btw.........My father and his side of the family are Catholic, so I know plenty about Catholicism.

I highly doubt you know a fraction of what you think you know.

If I had a dollar for everyone who has ever said "my so and so relative was a Catholic" or "I was a Catholic" followed by the claim you made above, I would be very, very wealthy.

The fact is, everyone and his brother thinks they know what Catholicism is, yet time and time again demonstrate they really don't have a clue . . .

I don't see that you are any exception.

If you would like to put that to the test, we can . . . .


.

 

[Nimrauko]

I enjoy a good challenge from a good for nothing know it all

 

[thereselittleflower]

I cleared up the confusion about those verses you quoted in the thread on the "mistreatment of Palestine."

I highly doubt that!

.

 

[Tanakh]

I highly doubt that!

.

The verses are not saying what you think that are saying. You deliberately changed the meaning to fit into your world view. And considering you are Catholic then why do you use my text to support your claims? This is what was done by the Vatican so that it will seem like the divinely ordained. The Vatican is a farce and is Israel's #1 enemy behind secularism. You are showing us all very clearly that you are a servant of the papacy.

 

[Carey]

Article from the Jewish maazine Haaretz.com exposes more of the racism inherent in Israeli policies and laws:

The burial of civil marriage​

Israeli citizens are divided by law into 12 religious groups. Each person is born into his own group: The Jew whose mother is Jewish is subject to the tyranny of the rabbis, the Muslim to that of the kadis, and the Druze have their own religious leaders, as do the Christians, the Armenians and all the others. And they cannot marry one another, since Israel has no civil marriage. This entire arrangement of no civil marriage, in a country that pretends to be democratic, came into the world only in order to preserve the purity of the Jewish genius.​

..... a "Jew" according to their definition was "someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or who converted and is not a member of another religion." ​

In Israel there are over 300,000 men and women whose mothers are not Jewish [and who are not converts].​

....That is how the purity of Judaism, which is preserved under the watchful eye of the religious establishment and the justice minister, is preventing some of the citizens of this country and their children from assimilating among the citizens of the state who have Jewish mothers. It's true that they'll attend the same educational institutions, will study Hebrew and Bible and history - but they will not be allowed to marry "kosher" Jews, because we are the Chosen People, holy seed.​

..... [Regarding a proposal of establishing a religion-less class of people so they can marry among themselves, but not Jews] Apparently this proposal suits a society of messianists, who are longing to return to the days of Yehoshua bin Nun, when it comes to the occupation of the land, and a return to the times of the Temple and the sacrifices.​

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=887462​

Hasn't this happened before in the last hundred years where the racial/ethic citizens of a country were not permitted to marry those of another race/ethnic group? . . . . .


.

Godd for Israel for neing obedient to God

Deuteronomy 7 : 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

 

[Nimrauko]

Godd for Israel for neing obedient to God

Deuteronomy 7 : 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

But that belief is clearly not founded in the bible according to her XD

Deny it now please thereselittleflower

 

[thereselittleflower]

But that belief is clearly not founded in the bible according to her XD

Deny it now please thereselittleflower

What is so unclear about what I have said?

Why do you keep ignoring what I have said and argue against something I haven't said?

All you are doing is continually creating Strawman arguments to fignt against.

A strawman argument is where you misrepresent my argument, thus fabricating an argument I didn't actually make, then you attack that fabricated argument and then treat that attack as though you have attacked something I actually said, which you have actually utterly failed to do.

I haven't argued against what Judaism teaches for followers of Judaism.

It is your fabrication that I have. And so that is all you are arguing against above.


I am not talking about a religion . . I am talking about a GOVERNMENT, a STATE which is not a religion, but a secular system.


That secular system is racist in its ideologies, policies and laws. . . .


That this SECULAR SYSTEM makes no just provision for all its citizens to be treated fairly and equally, which includes this failure to provide for marriage outside of religious circles to anyone one, including couples in which only one is a Jew by birth. This is just one example of the racism governing Israel's government's laws, policies and ideologies. . . .

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Godd for Israel for neing obedient to God

Deuteronomy 7 : 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

Yeah right

That's why Israel is dispossessing the Palestinians, discriminating against them in every way, rather than treating them like native born Sons of Israel as is commanded by the Law and the Prophets.


.

 

[Tanakh]

Tell me this thereselittlerflower sense you say the secular government of Israel is "racist" would you then support Israel becoming a religious state so we can truly fulfill our mandate as instructed in the Torah in executing the homosexuals, idolaters, adulterers, rebellious teenagers, and others as the Torah commands us to do or would you then label that racism as well and claim that the Torah does not command these people to be executed? Because under Jewish law this mandate is still in effect. I would personally carry out these punishments just as the Torah commands and in seeing how I support a Theocratic state over any other system in Israel it is this system that is the regime of the Torah. Clearly you say that the marriage laws are against human decency then tell us will you support Jewish religious laws that deal with the matter because if you say that you are not against the religion but against the evil Zionist state I can assure you that a religious state will carry out more brutal measures, as it should, and thus I would not hesitate to serve that state.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Tell me this thereselittlerflower sense you say the secular government of Israel is "racist" would you then support Israel becoming a religious state so we can truly fulfill our mandate as instructed in the Torah in executing the homosexuals, idolaters, adulterers, rebellious teenagers, and others as the Torah commands us to do or would you then label that racism as well and claim that the Torah does not command these people to be executed?

No, not at all. The time for such laws is past. . .

Because under Jewish law this mandate is still in effect.

Are you saying that you carry out such laws now? Have you stoned people to death? Have you executed people according to your "law"?

I would personally carry out these punishments just as the Torah commands

So have you? Have you stoned people? Have you executed people?

and in seeing how I support a Theocratic state over any other system in Israel it is this system that is the regime of the Torah.

Sorry, but the Prophets state that something new would come, not a repeat of the Old which you want.

You are not portraying Judaism at all . . . you are portraying Zionism's hijacking of Judaism for its own purposes. . .

Such comments do not belong here in this forum . You are not disucssing Christianity, but a warped form of Judaism . . . .

The hate the fills your posts is revolting honestly. it is not from God.

Clearly you say that the marriage laws are against human decency then tell us will you support Jewish religious laws that deal with the matter because if you say that you are not against the religion but against the evil Zionist state I can assure you that a religious state will carry out more brutal measures, as it should, and thus I would not hesitate to serve that state.

Your words are meaningless Tanakh . . meaningless. . . they have no validity when it comes to anything I have said, or what Judaism teaches.

Judaism being hijacked by Zionism is no longer Judaism . . . and Torah believing Jews who haven't fallen for the Zionist propaganda you have been spewing forth here are horrified by you and those like you abusing Judaism for your own ends.

True Torah Jews Against Zionism

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/


Jews United Against Zionism

http://www.nkusa.org/


Jews against Zionism

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/jews_against_zionism.html


Jews Not Zionists

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/


.

 

[Tanakh]

No, not at all. The time for such laws is past. . .



Are you saying that you carry out such laws now? Have you stoned people to death? Have you executed people according to your "law"?



So have you? Have you stoned people? Have you executed people?




Sorry, but the Prophets state that something new would come, not a repeat of the Old which you want.

You are not portraying Judaism at all . . . you are portraying Zionism's hijacking of Judaism for its own purposes. . .

Such comments do not belong here in this forum . You are not disucssing Christianity, but a warped form of Judaism . . . .

The hate the fills your posts is revolting honestly. it is not from God.




Your words are meaningless Tanakh . . meaningless. . . they have no validity when it comes to anything I have said, or what Judaism teaches.

Judaism being hijacked by Zionism is no longer Judaism . . . and Torah believing Jews who haven't fallen for the Zionist propaganda you have been spewing forth here are horrified by you and those like you abusing Judaism for your own ends.

True Torah Jews Against Zionism

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/


Jews United Against Zionism

http://www.nkusa.org/


Jews against Zionism

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/jews_against_zionism.html


Jews Not Zionists

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/


.

The laws you keep saying Jesus did away with are not past as we Jews still are commanded to follow them as is instructed in the Torah for all time. I love how you say the "new testament" overrides the "old" because Jesus said so. You are using my text to support your religion and yet time and time again we Jews have said that Jesus and Christianity are void. I wonder why the followers (we Jews) of another religion keep saying that our text does not support your claims and yet you keep saying it does, hmmm does this mean we Jews don't understand our own text? And no Zionism is NOT a hijacking of Judaism but Jews for Jesus certainly is. To the question have I stoned people the answer is no as only a Rabbi can give those orders but if a Rabbi gave the order I most definitely would carry out an execution just as the Torah commands, after all it is G-d's law. There is no Zionist propaganda but their is propaganda perpetuated by the goy so that it turns Judaism and Israel into something that it is not. Remember the curse that G-d gave on the world if it turned its back on Israel in Deuteronomy 12:2-3 "And I will make of you a great nation; I will bless you, and make your name great, and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you."

 

[Micah68]

Deuteronomy 12:2-3 "And I will make of you a great nation; I will bless you, and make your name great, and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you."

Yes God said these things to Abraham BASED on HIS faithfulness. Faithfulness to God has always been the key. How do you read the law of Moses? Do you follow these?

"Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, to whom I commanded at Horeb statutes and judgments for all Israel." Mal. iii. 22.

 

[Servant222]

There is sure a lot of hatred and hostility being expressed in this thread. What happened to reasoned debate? If you have a point to make, why ram it down people's throats so hard that they have no recourse but to fight back as hard as they can?

Where is Christ's love in all this? Or is winning the be all and end all?

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, but stick it to them first.

 

[Tanakh]

Yes God said these things to Abraham BASED on HIS faithfulness. Faithfulness to God has always been the key. How do you read the law of Moses? Do you follow these?

"Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, to whom I commanded at Horeb statutes and judgments for all Israel." Mal. iii. 22.

G-d is stating to Abram that the land of Canaan, which Israel is destined to conquer, will be a blessing to humanity and that in order for Israel's message to be a "light unto the nations" to be heard and understood the world must understand Israel's mission and G-d's mandate within that mission and thus those who act against it will be punished.The verse; "I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse," makes it clear that if the world disobeys the law that their will be consequences. So I read the verse correctly and in that how is it that you read the law or do you, for I clearly follow the law?

 

[gwynedd1]

The laws you keep saying Jesus did away with are not past as we Jews still are commanded to follow them as is instructed in the Torah for all time. I love how you say the "new testament" overrides the "old" because Jesus said so. You are using my text to support your religion and yet time and time again we Jews have said that Jesus and Christianity are void. I wonder why the followers (we Jews) of another religion keep saying that our text does not support your claims and yet you keep saying it does, hmmm does this mean we Jews don't understand our own text? And no Zionism is NOT a hijacking of Judaism but Jews for Jesus certainly is. To the question have I stoned people the answer is no as only a Rabbi can give those orders but if a Rabbi gave the order I most definitely would carry out an execution just as the Torah commands, after all it is G-d's law. There is no Zionist propaganda but their is propaganda perpetuated by the goy so that it turns Judaism and Israel into something that it is not. Remember the curse that G-d gave on the world if it turned its back on Israel in Deuteronomy 12:2-3 "And I will make of you a great nation; I will bless you, and make your name great, and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you."

Hello Tanakh,

I think this is in the Christian section thus the assumption here is that the New Testament scriptures expound upon the meanings of the Old Testament.
As to the Law I think Israel is certainly in violation of Halaka.


Secular Jews are rather free to enter Israel and is in opposition to this text.

Deuteronomy 30

When all these things have happened to you, the blessings and the curses that I have set before you, if you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, 2and return to the Lord your God, and you and your children obey him with all your heart and with all your soul, just as I am commanding you today, 3then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, gathering you again from all the peoples among whom the Lord your God has scattered you. 4Even if you are exiled to the ends of the world,* from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will bring you back. 5The Lord your God will bring you into the land that your ancestors possessed, and you will possess it; he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors.

The rather New Mizrachi movement was funded into existence while the large body of Orthodox Jews were slaughtered and thus we have more or less a generation that fails to understand the real significance of the state of Israel as having no legitimacy in actual Judaism.

So the six pointed star state Israel of today conforms to secular politics no matter how we slice it. That a hexagram has no Hebrew precedent makes this all the more obvious. Israelites were forbidden to make images of anything seen in nature. The menorah, for example, is not seen in nature and was done so with explicit instructions in Exodus i.e. from God.

 

[Tanakh]

Hello Tanakh,

I think this is in the Christian section thus the assumption here is that the New Testament scriptures expound upon the meanings of the Old Testament.
As to the Law I think Israel is certainly in violation of Halaka.


Secular Jews are rather free to enter Israel and is in opposition to this text.

Deuteronomy 30





The rather New Mizrachi movement was funded into existence while the large body of Orthodox Jews were slaughtered and thus we have more or less a generation that fails to understand the real significance of the state of Israel as having no legitimacy in actual Judaism.

So the six pointed star state Israel of today conforms to secular politics no matter how we slice it. That a hexagram has no Hebrew precedent makes this all the more obvious. Israelites were forbidden to make images of anything seen in nature. The menorah, for example, is not seen in nature and was done so with explicit instructions in Exodus i.e. from God.

True the current secular state of Israel is violating many rules of Jewish law which is one reason why the secular state needs to be destroyed and the true Torah state rebuilt. If Christianity uses its text to help our enemies and destroy Israel then I will have no recourse but to attack as their is no way to say you support Israel and then use the Torah to "support" the "new testament" and say we Jews should not follow the law that G-d mandated we follow in the first place. Secular Jews are "free" to do as they wish in the current Israel but if Israel actually did follow the entire law then that would obviously not be the case at all.

 

[Nimrauko]

True the current secular state of Israel is violating many rules of Jewish law which is one reason why the secular state needs to be destroyed and the true Torah state rebuilt. If Christianity uses its text to help our enemies and destroy Israel then I will have no recourse but to attack as their is no way to say you support Israel and then use the Torah to "support" the "new testament" and say we Jews should not follow the law that G-d mandated we follow in the first place. Secular Jews are "free" to do as they wish in the current Israel but if Israel actually did follow the entire law then that would obviously not be the case at all.

Baruch Hashem, [SIZE=-1]LeOlam Va'ed!

Couldnt agree more (However you and I would be in opposition on the gay stoning which was never used in that case...........)
[/SIZE]

 

[gwynedd1]

True the current secular state of Israel is violating many rules of Jewish law which is one reason why the secular state needs to be destroyed and the true Torah state rebuilt. If Christianity uses its text to help our enemies and destroy Israel then I will have no recourse but to attack as their is no way to say you support Israel and then use the Torah to "support" the "new testament" and say we Jews should not follow the law that G-d mandated we follow in the first place. Secular Jews are "free" to do as they wish in the current Israel but if Israel actually did follow the entire law then that would obviously not be the case at all.

Tanakh,

Jesus would say love was a fulfillment of the Law. So Christianity would certainly not nullify any Law but only the driver for it. It does make a distinction on culture in that those who live as original Jews were different then those who where Gentiles. If one were to consider it a sin to eat snails then that is would be. Again Judaism not is not legalistic faith. It is also not so far from the concept of Noahides to some degree.

Isaiah 1

10Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom!
Listen to the teaching of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the Lord;
I have had enough of burnt-offerings of rams
and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of goats.

12When you come to appear before me,*
who asked this from your hand?
Trample my courts no more;
13bringing offerings is futile;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and calling of convocation—
I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity.
14Your new moons and your appointed festivals
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15When you stretch out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
16Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
17 learn to do good;
seek justice,
rescue the oppressed,
defend the orphan,
plead for the widow.

Jesus says as much here.

Matthew 23

23 ‘Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practised without neglecting the others. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!

 

[gwynedd1]

There is sure a lot of hatred and hostility being expressed in this thread. What happened to reasoned debate? If you have a point to make, why ram it down people's throats so hard that they have no recourse but to fight back as hard as they can?

Where is Christ's love in all this? Or is winning the be all and end all?

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, but stick it to them first.

Some reputation for that brother