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Why aren't you a Christian?

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Gracchus

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Some Christians seem to think that we non-Christians are inferior to them for having rejected Jesus. Really it doesn't make us weaker or dumber or lazier, just different - so let's clear up some misconceptions.

Why aren't YOU a Christian?

If I were a Christian I would have to worship a god who was a malignant moron, an omniscient, omnipotent father who not only lets his children starve, lets them be tortured, molested, mutilated, and killed, but who sends disasters upon them, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes and cyclones. This is the kindly creator who creates mankind knowing in advance that they will sin, who could have made them so that they wouldn't sin, then punishes even innocent children because one man sinned (because of a talking snake), and, unable to forgive as he has commanded us to forgive, impregnates a virgin (to whom he is not married, so she has to marry a man to keep from being killed, as his law demands) making himself his own father who impregnated his own mother, ... on and on, absurdity upon atrocity.

I just don't believe all that, and if I did believe it, I would refuse to worship such a monster. I would refuse to grovel before him.

That is why I am not a Christian.

:wave:
 
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I_are_sceptical

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What exactly is your question. Do you have the ability to make it clear and concise?


I bet you do.:)

I will be happy to answer to the best of my abilities.

carey
Considering my notable lack of success at getting any answers from Christians, I probably am NOT able to make any of my questions clear and consise.

To start, what evidence is there that God wants me to be a Christian instead of belonging to a different religion?
 
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Mling

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you may like this site www.hearoisrael.org

Shalom

carey

:D Most Christians and Muslims are still waiting for JESUS to come back to the Jews in the future and they can't even prove Jesus came to them the first time!!!

Actually I wouldn't mind a Jew giving me their view of Zech 14:5.

It is puzzling to me the way it is worded and I am assuming this event happens after the Jewish Messiah comes and preaches.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Zech 14:5 And you flee ravine of mountains, that He shall touch ravine of mountains to 'Atsel. And you flee as which you fled from before the quake in days of `Uzziyah king of Y@huwdah. And YHWH comes, 'Elohiym-of-me, all of holy ones with you.

I'm not sure what the connection is between my comment and these replies. I just like the Hebrew language and wanted a translation clarification. I also like Anglo-Saxon (true Old English), for what it matters.
And Arabic.

Al Gore ??

wedgies??

Got you where??

Got me here, of course:

Mling wins the internet today.

They kindly created an internet for me to win!
 
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Nimrauko

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:D Most Christians and Muslims are still waiting for JESUS to come back to the Jews in the future and they can't even prove Jesus came to them the first time!!!

Actually I wouldn't mind a Jew giving me their view of Zech 14:5.

It is puzzling to me the way it is worded and I am assuming this event happens after the Jewish Messiah comes and preaches.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Zech 14:5 And you flee ravine of mountains, that He shall touch ravine of mountains to 'Atsel. And you flee as which you fled from before the quake in days of `Uzziyah king of Y@huwdah. And YHWH comes, 'Elohiym-of-me, all of holy ones with you.

I am going to tell you what I think, but first I am going to type up Zechariah 14:5 from the JPS Edition of the Tanakh.

Zechariah 14:5: And the valley in the hills shall be stopped up, for the Valley of the Hills shall reach only to Azal; it shall be stopped up as it was stopped up as a result of an earth quake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah and the Lord my G-d, with all the holy beings, will come to you.

That is not a literal thing, remember Zechariah was a prophet, and prophets didnt speak in literal terms. It is a majority in symbolism and Metaphor.

This is hearkening to the fact that g-d used to prepare Israel for battles of all, and Zechariah is stating that G-d (Not Jesus as Messianic Jews, who arent Jews in reality state) shall come down, and the mountain of olives shall split east to west, and g-d will start the battle against those whom took Jerusalem over, and raped the jewish women and defiled the holy city. This is really powerful Imagery but I do not see the foot prints of the Messiah in it, but I do see the hope of the messiah through out Zechariah. However, this does not in any way imply that jesus is the messiah, because based on prophecy Jesus fulfilled none of the requirements of the messiah. I will start another thread on that.

I hope that made sense >_>
 
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dlamberth

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But what I notice is your sperating God from creation mindset.
[FONT=&quot]In order to have a God who judges His own creation and send aspects of it to Hell, Christianity MUST have a God who is separate and apart from creation. Otherwise, God would be judging Himself and sending Himself to Hell. And as we see, most Christians do have an image of God who is separate and apart from His on creation and who is sitting somewhere in Heaven..where ever that is.

God, as I experience Him, IS united, whole and One with ALL of Creation. God is right here, all around us....everywhere I look. So I'm not able to buy into the Christian model of God being separate from His own Creation.


.
[/FONT]
 
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R3quiem

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Some Christians seem to think that we non-Christians are inferior to them for having rejected Jesus. Really it doesn't make us weaker or dumber or lazier, just different - so let's clear up some misconceptions.

Why aren't YOU a Christian?
When I was younger, I was raised Christian so I believed in the Christian God. I was aware friends of mine had different beliefs than me and I didn't necessarily think they were wrong- just different. I always had the mindset though towards the Christian God, even though these years were pretty troubled for me.

When I started to grow and actually read the Bible, I started getting doubts. Reading the Gospel was good, I very much like Christ's teachings and try to make them a part of my life, but reading the rest of the NT gave me a lot of doubt. It describes miracles, yet I have never seen a miracle. It is inconsistent in its reports, and is full of vague threats. Then when I read the OT, I even had more doubt. It just seemed like any other pagan god, a god thought up by a culture that had views that paralleled their own. There is so much killing, so much violence, genocide, awkward rules. God allows slavery, kills children, is jealous and wrathful, etc. It all just didn't seem real at all to me, and if it was real, I certainly didn't like it.

I was basically agnostic all through high school- I went to church only on Christmas and Easter, hardly prayed, yet still had a general view that some type of good god was probably real. Then I tried becoming more religious again, going to church more, but I couldn't stand it. Every time I was in Church it just felt like such a lie. People would give me the advice that to believe more all you have to do is pray and read the Bible, but doing either of those things just made me believe less.

Christianity as a whole just doesn't stand out to me. It has done good, but it has also been responsible for tremendous evil. The concept of hell is terrible, and people hold onto it like a comfort blanket that they will be taken care of and people who disagree with them will be punished. It just promotes an "us vs them" mentality. Generally the more devout a Christian is, the less educated they are (big generalization, but I'm talking as a whole). They reject other religions before learning anything about them, and use their faith as a reason why they are better or more important than others.

The Catholic church seems full of itself, no different than the Pharisees. They put so much emphasis on rules and regulations, and forget what Christ's teachings were. They criticize other religions, even the fractured web of other Christian denominations, yet they let scandal continue in their own midst. Christianity has too often been used as a tool to further the goals of evil people. They wield the ultimate threat- eternal punishment after death- to get people to do what they want.

I won't have it though- I want to think for myself. I doubt God would give us reason and then expect us not to use it. I doubt that God would hinge the salvation of a person on their amount of skepticism, when he supposedly gave them the very mind they have. When I joined these forums, I decided to use the Catholic icon, because I still went to Church occasionally. I still had a vague concept that something out there exists, but my beliefs were best described as agnostic. I took down the icon a week or so ago because I was just fooling myself by having it up. I don't know what the truth is about religion or spirituality, but I don't really hold any beliefs of my own. I just learn as much as I can about the world, try to examine all sides, all stories, and I'll just see what happens.

I'm fine though with whatever people believe. Religion can be a good thing at times- it can give people hope when there is no other source for it. It can bring people together, help them through trouble and give life meaning. Unfortunately, it can also destroy hope, tear people apart, create trouble, and take every ounce of meaning out of life. It all depends on what the person does with it.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Catholic church seems full of itself, no different than the Pharisees. They put so much emphasis on rules and regulations, and forget what Christ's teachings were. They criticize other religions, even the fractured web of other Christian denominations, yet they let scandal continue in their own midst. Christianity has too often been used as a tool to further the goals of evil people. They wield the ultimate threat- eternal punishment after death- to get people to do what they want.
:thumbsup: And that is why it is difficult for those of us "non-denominational CHRIST-ians" in debating the Bible with non-CHRIST-ians.

For example, both the Orthodox church and Roman church argue on who is "the Church" today. :(

http://foru.ms/t6072629-the-pope-versus-the-orthodox-church.html
the-pope-versus-the-orthodox-church.

http://foru.ms/t5805969&page=74
What would it take for Orthodoxs to come under Pope

Post # 7
quote: The Pope would renounce his Roman Catholicism and become Orthodox. There is nothing that would cause the Church as a whole to join with him.

There are such things as uniate churches, which are basically Byzantine Catholic churches and the like, but they are no longer Orthodox.
 
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français

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  1. Hell - First off God doesnt send us to hell WE send ourselves to hell, do you honestly think he wants this? theres either heaven or hell you pick, Heaven is not of this world it is a holy place,Christ is our bridge back to God if we dont beleive in Him how are u gonna cross? all u have to do is beleive in Him
  1. So if we believe, we go to heaven, but if we don't believe, we go to hell. That is whack.
You know, we do not choose what we belief. There are many people who WANT to believe in god, but they just can't. So they should be sent to hell?

If a god wanted us to believe, then they should show us proof that they exist.. maybe giving us miraculous abilities to perform miracles or such! but they do not.
  1. Gay rights - With this one ill be honest you have me stumped i have met some really nice gay people, i do however beleive anal sex is wrong, sex is meant for procreation imo, God never intented sex to be anal.Why not ask Him? if you really search for an answer with all youre heart he will answer you, just might not be the answer youre looking for.
    1. Not all gay sex is anal. 2. Why is anal sex wrong? 3. god is perfect.. So how could he have "never intended" for anal sex to happen, if he can control everything?
Evolution - no comment at this time
Of course not. It is hard for any religious person to try and debunk evolution.
  1. Making one worship him - Dude do u even know who Satan is or should i say was? Satan was made perfect, from what i read in angelogy he was Gods protective angel (i dont know how true this holds) Satan turned evil alot can be said for us humans we werent created evil we turned our backs on God and decided to do evil. and as far as worshipping him, We as christians worship him in complete love. i bet if you really knew how much God has done for you you would worship him as well.
But WHO created satan? and WHO can control EVERYTHING, and is all powerful? GOD, according to your religion! Yet god ALLOWED satan to cause misery, and ALLOWED evil. Therefore, god is guilty!

Also, read book of job. In job, there are many times when god ORDERS satan to cause evil to job and his family. Sadistic!!

  1. An all powerful god would not let evil happen - Yay for being robots..no thanks my friend, what kind of love is that, he loved us so much He gave us something called free will, ill be honest i had those same questions. alot of people do but the truth of the matter is this world is wicked, end of story God can stop it and beleive me when Jesus comes for the rest of us evil will ceasse to exsist, the real question should be why cant WE stop raping and murdering...
but why did he allow satan to allow evil? why did he not stop it and just make us all happy and such.

using common sense, or even laws of america, god would be guilty for not stopping a crime which he could. that would be like me knowing about 9/11 but not telling anyone. i would be in jail for life!

The view of a perfect god - [SIZE=-1] Im sorry but who said Satan was evil when he was first created? You know angels have free will too ya know, And for the recrod God never sinned he is perfect.[/SIZE]
Yet according to the Princeton definition of perfect, there are no errors in ANYTHING. yet this perfect god allowed error.. error to be able to cause evil.
  1. Just show some proof! - Its called faith, in my life i have more than enough proof to know that God exists but you would probably call me mental skitzophrenic, why? because my friend you have NO faith and that is key. i bet if you whole heartly prayed and you really meant it God WILL reveal himself.
why can't some god just reveal himself to us as it is? why does he have to make people have faith, but not show proof? that is whack.


If I were a Christian I would have to worship a god who was a malignant moron, an omniscient, omnipotent father who not only lets his children starve, lets them be tortured, molested, mutilated, and killed, but who sends disasters upon them, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes and cyclones. This is the kindly creator who creates mankind knowing in advance that they will sin, who could have made them so that they wouldn't sin, then punishes even innocent children because one man sinned (because of a talking snake), and, unable to forgive as he has commanded us to forgive, impregnates a virgin (to whom he is not married, so she has to marry a man to keep from being killed, as his law demands) making himself his own father who impregnated his own mother, ... on and on, absurdity upon atrocity.

I just don't believe all that, and if I did believe it, I would refuse to worship such a monster. I would refuse to grovel before him.

That is why I am not a Christian.

:wave:

Great answer!!!

I can not see how people can love and worship a god who allows evil to happen. Just disgusting.

if only there were more people like you, who are smart enough to know that the god of judaism, christianity, and islam is a sadistic!
When I was younger, I was raised Christian so I believed in the Christian God. I was aware friends of mine had different beliefs than me and I didn't necessarily think they were wrong- just different. I always had the mindset though towards the Christian God, even though these years were pretty troubled for me.

When I started to grow and actually read the Bible, I started getting doubts. Reading the Gospel was good, I very much like Christ's teachings and try to make them a part of my life, but reading the rest of the NT gave me a lot of doubt. It describes miracles, yet I have never seen a miracle. It is inconsistent in its reports, and is full of vague threats. Then when I read the OT, I even had more doubt. It just seemed like any other pagan god, a god thought up by a culture that had views that paralleled their own. There is so much killing, so much violence, genocide, awkward rules. God allows slavery, kills children, is jealous and wrathful, etc. It all just didn't seem real at all to me, and if it was real, I certainly didn't like it.

I was basically agnostic all through high school- I went to church only on Christmas and Easter, hardly prayed, yet still had a general view that some type of good god was probably real. Then I tried becoming more religious again, going to church more, but I couldn't stand it. Every time I was in Church it just felt like such a lie. People would give me the advice that to believe more all you have to do is pray and read the Bible, but doing either of those things just made me believe less.

Christianity as a whole just doesn't stand out to me. It has done good, but it has also been responsible for tremendous evil. The concept of hell is terrible, and people hold onto it like a comfort blanket that they will be taken care of and people who disagree with them will be punished. It just promotes an "us vs them" mentality. Generally the more devout a Christian is, the less educated they are (big generalization, but I'm talking as a whole). They reject other religions before learning anything about them, and use their faith as a reason why they are better or more important than others.

The Catholic church seems full of itself, no different than the Pharisees. They put so much emphasis on rules and regulations, and forget what Christ's teachings were. They criticize other religions, even the fractured web of other Christian denominations, yet they let scandal continue in their own midst. Christianity has too often been used as a tool to further the goals of evil people. They wield the ultimate threat- eternal punishment after death- to get people to do what they want.

I won't have it though- I want to think for myself. I doubt God would give us reason and then expect us not to use it. I doubt that God would hinge the salvation of a person on their amount of skepticism, when he supposedly gave them the very mind they have. When I joined these forums, I decided to use the Catholic icon, because I still went to Church occasionally. I still had a vague concept that something out there exists, but my beliefs were best described as agnostic. I took down the icon a week or so ago because I was just fooling myself by having it up. I don't know what the truth is about religion or spirituality, but I don't really hold any beliefs of my own. I just learn as much as I can about the world, try to examine all sides, all stories, and I'll just see what happens.

I'm fine though with whatever people believe. Religion can be a good thing at times- it can give people hope when there is no other source for it. It can bring people together, help them through trouble and give life meaning. Unfortunately, it can also destroy hope, tear people apart, create trouble, and take every ounce of meaning out of life. It all depends on what the person does with it.

R3queim!! What a pleasant surprise to hear this coming from your mouth!!!

It is amazing how many popular members here, who were Christian, are now becoming atheist/agnostic. I am really glad to hear that you have deconverted. Hopefully, more will discover the truth (that there is no god) and follow you (and my) footsteps of de converting!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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R3queim!! What a pleasant surprise to hear this coming from your mouth!!!

It is amazing how many popular members here, who were Christian, are now becoming atheist/agnostic. I am really glad to hear that you have deconverted. Hopefully, more will discover the truth (that there is no god) and follow you (and my) footsteps of de converting!
:) Hey Francais. When did you decomvert to Atheist. Weren't you a Catholic or Orthodox or Anglican before? :eek:
 
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français

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:) Hey Francais. When did you decomvert to Atheist. Weren't you a Catholic or Orthodox before? :eek:

Hey littlelamb! Long time no speak lol

Anyways, I de converted about a month 1/2 ago.

There were many reasons why.

Ok, so I am a substitute teacher (at westwood high in cedar park.. since you live in austin, I am sure you know of it!) Anyways, so at this school, in one class there was a video on evolution. Now, to this point, I was a Young Earth Creationist.

So I watched this video. And I was like "whoa, this makes so much sense." And I spent like a few days reading about evolution, and knew that it was concrete, and true.

But, that did not make me loose my faith. Obviously, some do believe in theistic evolution. (Now I think that evolution totally contradicts the bible, but for some reason ppl attempt to make it work.)

But, evolution allowed me to at least open my mind to new ideas.

So, I started reading about different views of things. Also, about 60% of my friends are atheist. so, I asked them about atheism, and WHY they deny god.

So, I got some very great answers. and, I just kept doing some research, and then ended up loosing my faith.

When I was a catholic, I think my heart was sealed. Like for example, I used to LOVE going to mass. I would go twice a week. I just loved it. now, I can not stand it. (I do not go anymore, but i did go once with my grandma, and did not even want to wake up to go, when usually I am up at 10, ready to go to 11 mass.)

And, now I laugh at what I used to believe. I think within over a month, my viewpoint of life has changed, and I am a much happier person now (odd to some!) I appreciate what I have so much more, and feel liberated that I do not have to worship some sadistic being, who does not prove to us that he exists!

So yeah, now I am atheist!
 
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Nimrauko

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français;39450022 said:
Hey littlelamb! Long time no speak lol

Anyways, I de converted about a month 1/2 ago.

There were many reasons why.

Ok, so I am a substitute teacher (at westwood high in cedar park.. since you live in austin, I am sure you know of it!) Anyways, so at this school, in one class there was a video on evolution. Now, to this point, I was a Young Earth Creationist.

So I watched this video. And I was like "whoa, this makes so much sense." And I spent like a few days reading about evolution, and knew that it was concrete, and true.

But, that did not make me loose my faith. Obviously, some do believe in theistic evolution. (Now I think that evolution totally contradicts the bible, but for some reason ppl attempt to make it work.)

But, evolution allowed me to at least open my mind to new ideas.

So, I started reading about different views of things. Also, about 60% of my friends are atheist. so, I asked them about atheism, and WHY they deny god.

So, I got some very great answers. and, I just kept doing some research, and then ended up loosing my faith.

When I was a catholic, I think my heart was sealed. Like for example, I used to LOVE going to mass. I would go twice a week. I just loved it. now, I can not stand it. (I do not go anymore, but i did go once with my grandma, and did not even want to wake up to go, when usually I am up at 10, ready to go to 11 mass.)

And, now I laugh at what I used to believe. I think within over a month, my viewpoint of life has changed, and I am a much happier person now (odd to some!) I appreciate what I have so much more, and feel liberated that I do not have to worship some sadistic being, who does not prove to us that he exists!

So yeah, now I am atheist!
Well speaking from a jewish perspective I am sad to hear that you lost your faith, when one can believe in both g-d and evolution.


May Hashem aid you in a rekindling of your faith.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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And, now I laugh at what I used to believe. I think within over a month, my viewpoint of life has changed, and I am a much happier person now (odd to some!) I appreciate what I have so much more, and feel liberated that I do not have to worship some sadistic being, who does not prove to us that he exists!

So yeah, now I am atheist!
Ok. Good luck in your new found path of "change". Peace.:wave:
 
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sidhe

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I am not very traditional either. I have been treated as a heretic by many Christians.

I am very much a Christian as to say I know the Bible is 100% accurate and I know Yeshua the son of God born of a Human woman Mary died for all our sins if we want to accept that free gift.

But I disagree with many of every church denominations doctrines. Especially on marriage and celebration of Holidays.

See, I disagree that there's such a thing as "sin," at least as understood in Christianity. I don't think there's anything we need to be saved from. Jesus is a prime example of a Tiphareth man - he's the best part of humanity, operating at it's absolute best. Accordingly, us lesser beings nailed him to a cross. But ya can't stop a Tiphareth man that easily. I don't buy into salvation, but I think trying to be like Jesus is a noble goal.

Goddess??

Yes. I am utterly devoted to my Lady, glorious be Her Name.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Well speaking from a jewish perspective I am sad to hear that you lost your faith, when one can believe in both g-d and evolution.


May Hashem aid you in a rekindling of your faith.
SLahlom. Am I correct in assuming the Orthodox Jews viewing their Messiah as accomplishing ALL things when he comes?
I have differences between Messiac Jews concerning Jesus returning to Jerusalem to help set up a third temple, but according to Daniel, Paul and Jesus, those In Christ ARE the "3rd Temple" not made with hands. The link to that discussion is at bottom. Shalom.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great Elohim hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no Place was found for Them. [Revelation 12]
And the Stone that smote the Image became a Great Mountain [CHRIST-ian Church], and filled the whole Land.

http://foru.ms/t5546846-how-damaging-is-the-messianic-movement.html

quote poster in response to me:

The main issues here with you helping is that it's hard to take Hebraic concepts and Hebraic thinking and present it in a Greek perspective, Greek language. They are lot different. Yet alone take Hebraic concepts/thinking thinking written in Greek then translated into English.

This is one of the essences if you will of Messianic Judaism, not the main objective. For the most part we look at scripture on how a 'Jew' thought in the 1st century. Why? That's obvious.
 
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SLahlom. Am I correct in assuming the Orthodox Jews viewing their Messiah as accomplishing ALL things when he comes?
I have differences between Messiac Jews concerning Jesus returning to Jerusalem to help set up a third temple, but according to Daniel, Paul and Jesus, those In Christ ARE the "3rd Temple" not made with hands. The link to that discussion is at bottom. Shalom.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great Elohim hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no Place was found for Them. [Revelation 12]
And the Stone that smote the Image became a Great Mountain [CHRIST-ian Church], and filled the whole Land.

http://foru.ms/t5546846-how-damaging-is-the-messianic-movement.html

quote poster in response to me:

The main issues here with you helping is that it's hard to take Hebraic concepts and Hebraic thinking and present it in a Greek perspective, Greek language. They are lot different. Yet alone take Hebraic concepts/thinking thinking written in Greek then translated into English.

This is one of the essences if you will of Messianic Judaism, not the main objective. For the most part we look at scripture on how a 'Jew' thought in the 1st century. Why? That's obvious.
Messianic Jews (And I will get much hate for saying this) are not true Jews.

Secondly, to say that people are the third temple is a really clever way to cover up not having an answer to the biggest flaws in their belief (Not to say that christianity is a false faith, but there are flaws)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Messianic Jews (And I will get much hate for saying this) are not true Jews.

Secondly, to say that people are the third temple is a really clever way to cover up not having an answer to the biggest flaws in their belief (Not to say that christianity is a false faith, but there are flaws)
No hate from me bro. I get called "anti-jewish" plenty of times from them for my view of the Scriptures. :D

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/abraham/abrahams_bosom.htm
Abraham's Bosom Luke 16

Matt 23:33 "Serpents, generation?/gennhmata <1081> of Vipers! How may ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV"

Luke 16:26 And in all of these, between us and ye a great Chasm hath been established, so that those willing to pass-thru/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye, not be able to, no yet thence toward us maybe ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725) .

Reve 14:11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having rest Day and Night those worshipping the Wild-Beast, and the Image of it, and if anyone is receiving the Image of the Name of it.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Messianic Jews (And I will get much hate for saying this) are not true Jews.

Secondly, to say that people are the third temple is a really clever way to cover up not having an answer to the biggest flaws in their belief (Not to say that christianity is a false faith, but there are flaws)
I can see why that would be difficult to explain, much like YHWH's CHRIST being born of a "virgin", dying on the "cross" then resurrecting then ascending.

I found this pretty interesting while studying on the NT/NC Greek. Jesus said this when they came out of the Temple and is commonly called the Olivet Discourse or prophecy on the Temple and City in the future.

Notice the similarity between the descriptions given in Luke 21:5 and the "New Jerusalem" coming down in Revelation. Pretty fascinating but then again, a lot of it is just plain ole simple Jewish/Hebrew symbology. Shalom.

Luke 21:5 And as some saying about the Temple that to stones beautiful, and up-placings/anaqhmasin <334> it has been adorned/kekosmhtai <2885> (5769), He said,

Revelation 22:3 and every down-place/kat-anaqema<2652> there shall Not Be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him

Revelation 21:2 and I, John, saw the city, the holy-one, Jerusalem, New descending from the God out of the heaven, having been made ready as a bride/numfhn <3565> having been adorned/kekosmhmenhn <2885> (5772)tothe man/husband/andri <435> of Her

I study a lot of Revelation from the OT books of Exodus and Joshua and this site is fairly informative to understand the types and shadow representive thru the First Tabernacle of Moses in the Wilderness. Shalom. :wave:

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

tabernacle100dpi.gif
 
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Gracchus

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français;39449617 said:
So if we believe, we go to heaven, but if we don't believe, we go to hell. That is whack.
[/list]You know, we do not choose what we belief. There are many people who WANT to believe in god, but they just can't. So they should be sent to hell?

I think many religious folk are able to choose what to believe. I think that they have, probably while still very young, been coerced and tortured, by family and society at large, to the point that they had to believe absurdities as a matter of sheer survival. I think that, given enough social pressure, they can change their beliefs very easily rather than face the pain, rejection, and terror of that first "conversion", that juvenile brainwashing. Of course some doubts may arise, but when they have successfully quelled those doubts, they feel relief, and proclaim themselves "born again".

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. " --- Karl Marx

:wave:


 
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