What ARE The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven anyhow?

[sunlover1]

Scripture would be awesome and helpful.

sunlover

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Scripture would be awesome and helpful.

sunlover

I would venture to say something along the lines of Word/Sword of Spirit and Truth, which conquers Death and Hades. Will work on verses later.

Reve 19:20 and the Wild-Beast was taken, and with him the False-Prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were Cast--the two--to the Lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;

Exodus 15:1 Then sang Mosheh and the sons of Yisra'el this song unto YHWH, and they spake saying,--"I will sing to YHWH for He is exalted exalted,--The horse and his rider hath He cast into the Sea. 2 My might and melody is Yah And He became mine salvation/y@shuw'ah.--This is my 'El and I will glorify Him, 'Elohiym of my father and I will set Him on high". '

 

[Trento]

Scripture would be awesome and helpful.

sunlover

According to Protestant SBible Scholars.

And what about the "keys of the kingdom"? . . . About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim . . . (Isa. 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward.

(F.F. Bruce, The Hard Sayings of Jesus, Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1983, 143-144)

All these New Testament pictures and usages go back to a picture in Isaiah (Is 22:22) . . . Now the duty of Eliakim was to be the faithful steward of the house . . . So then what Jesus is saying to Peter is that in the days to come, he will be the steward of the Kingdom.

(William Barclay, Gospel of Matthew, Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1975, vol. 2, 144-145)

In biblical and Judaic usage handing over the keys does not mean appointment as a porter but carries the thought of full authorization (cf. Mt. 13:52; Rev. 3:7) . . . The implication is that Jesus takes away this authority from the scribes and grants it to Peter.

(J. Jeremias, in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, abridgement of Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985, 440)


The prime minister, more literally 'major-domo,' was the man called in Hebrew 'the one who is over the house,' a term borrowed from the Egyptian designation of the chief palace functionary . . .

The power of the key of the Davidic kingdom is the power to open and to shut, i.e., the prime minister's power to allow or refuse entrance to the palace, which involves access to the king . . . Peter might be portrayed as a type of prime minister in the kingdom that Jesus has come to proclaim . . . What else might this broader power of the keys include? It might include one or more of the following: baptismal discipline; post-baptismal or penitential discipline; excommunication; exclusion from the eucharist; the communication or refusal of knowledge; legislative powers; and the power of governing.

(Peter in the New Testament, Brown, Raymond E., Karl P. Donfried and John Reumann, editors, Minneapolis: Augsburg Pub. House/New York: Paulist Press, 1973, 96-97. Common statement by a panel of eleven Catholic and Lutheran scholars)


Just as in Isaiah 22:22 the Lord puts the keys of the house of David on the shoulders of his servant Eliakim, so does Jesus hand over to Peter the keys of the house of the kingdom of heaven and by the same stroke establishes him as his superintendent. There is a connection between the house of the Church, the construction of which has just been mentioned and of which Peter is the foundation, and the celestial house of which he receives the keys. The connection between these two images is the notion of God's people.

(Oscar Cullmann, Peter: Disciple, Apostle, Martyr, Neuchatel: Delachaux & Niestle, 1952 French ed., 183-184)

Not only is Peter to have a leading role, but this role involves a daunting degree of authority (though not an authority which he alone carries, as may be seen from the repetition of the latter part of the verse in 18:18 with reference to the disciple group as a whole). The image of 'keys' (plural) perhaps suggests not so much the porter, who controls admission to the house, as the steward, who regulates its administration (cf. Is 22:22, in conjunction with 22:15). The issue then is not that of admission to the church . . . , but an authority derived from a 'delegation' of God's sovereignty.

(R.T. France; in Morris, Leon, Gen. ed., Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press / Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1985, vol. 1: Matthew, 256)


The opening words of v.22, with their echo of 9:6, emphasize the God-given responsibility that went with it [possession of the keys], to be used in the king's interests. The 'shutting' and 'opening' mean the power to make decisions which no one under the king could override. This is the background of the commission to Peter (cf. Mt 16:19) and to the church (cf. Mt 18:18).

(New Bible Commentary, Guthrie, D. & J.A. Motyer, eds., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 3rd ed., 1970 [Reprinted, 1987, as The Eerdmans Bible Commentary], 603)


For further references to the office of the steward in Old Testament times, see 1 Kings 4:6; 16:9; 18:3; 2 Kings 10:5; 15:5; 18:18, where the phrases used are "over the house," "steward," or "governor." In Isaiah 22:15, in the same passage to which our Lord apparently refers in Matt 16:19, Shebna, the soon-to-be deposed steward, is described in various translations as:

1) "Master of the palace" {Jerusalem Bible / New American Bible}
2) "In charge of the palace" {New International Version}
3) "Master of the household" {New Revised Standard Version}
4) "In charge of the royal household" {New American Standard Bible}
5) "Comptroller of the household" {Revised English Bible}
6) "Governor of the palace" {Moffatt} ​

As the robe and the baldric, mentioned in the preceding verse, were the ensigns of power and authority, so likewise was the key the mark of office, either sacred or civil. This mark of office was likewise among the Greeks, as here in Isaiah, borne on the shoulder. In allusion to the image of the key as the ensign of power, the unlimited extent of that power is expressed with great clearness as well as force by the sole and exclusive authority to open and shut. Our Saviour, therefore, has upon a similar occasion made use of a like manner of expression, Matt 16:19; and in Rev 3:7 has applied to himself the very words of the prophet.

(Adam Clarke, [Methodist], Commentary on the Bible, abridged ed., Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1967 [orig. 1832], 581)

In the . . . exercise of the power of the keys, in ecclesiastical discipline, the thought is of administrative authority (Is 22:22) with regard to the requirements of the household of faith. The use of censures, excommunication, and absolution is committed to the Church in every age, to be used under the guidance of the Spirit . . .

So Peter, in T.W. Manson's words, is to be 'God's vicegerent . . . The authority of Peter is an authority to declare what is right and wrong for the Christian community. His decisions will be confirmed by God' (The Sayings of Jesus, 1954, p.205).

(New Bible Dictionary, ed. J.D. Douglas, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1962, 1018)



I can show how the First Fathers of the Church interpreted this also but it's obvious Jesus does not give the keys of the kingdom “to his Apostles.” Jesus gives the keys to Peter alone. If Jesus really gives Peter alone the keys, then it looks like Peter has special authority that the other apostles do not have.What "role" did Christ give "individually" to Peter? Well, in Matthew 16:17-19, Christ individually imparts to Peter the office of "Rock," "Key-bearer," and the authority to "bind and loosen." Also, in Luke 22:31-32, the Lord individually imparts to Peter the task of strengthening his brethren (i.e. the other Apostles). Also, in John 21:15-19, the Lord makes Peter a shepherd, telling him three times to "feed my lambs" and "tend my sheep."Peter unlocks the door to the Gentiles because he is the one with the keys. Unlocking the door to the Gentiles is a divine act that only Jesus can do, and yet Peter performs the act. Why? Because Jesus delegated divine authority to Peter, and Peter acts in Jesus’ name. Also, note that the authority to “bind and loose” is not limited to “unlocking the door to the Gentiles.” It also refers to declaring dogmatic and disciplinary decrees as well as forgiving and retaining sin (which is set forth in the passage John 20:21-23).

The Greek uses the passive voice which indicates that heaven is receiving the binding and loosing from Peter. This is an incredible statement that Jesus makes. Heaven will ratify Peter’s binding and loosing decisions. But in order for this to be true, Peter must be prevented from teaching error, for God cannot lie. Thus, God must penetrate the mind of Peter (just as He did when Peter confessed Jesus as the Messiah) and prevent him from teaching error. Otherwise, Jesus could not make such a sweeping promise. All this supports the Catholic understanding of the papacy.

 

[sunlover1]

I would venture to say something along the lines of Word/Sword of Spirit and Truth, which conquers Death and Hades. Will work on verses later.

Reve 19:20 and the Wild-Beast was taken, and with him the False-Prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were Cast--the two--to the Lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;

Exodus 15:1 Then sang Mosheh and the sons of Yisra'el this song unto YHWH, and they spake saying,--"I will sing to YHWH for He is exalted exalted,--The horse and his rider hath He cast into the Sea. 2 My might and melody is Yah And He became mine salvation/y@shuw'ah.--This is my 'El and I will glorify Him, 'Elohiym of my father and I will set Him on high". '

Wow, thank you LLOJ.
Interesting indeed and than you
for posting the verses as well.
(NOT that I see the connection,
but thanks just the same for sharing
God's word)

According to Protestant SBible Scholars.

And what about the "keys of the kingdom"? . . . About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim . . . (Isa. 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward.

Sounds good to me.

All these New Testament pictures and usages go back to a picture in Isaiah (Is 22:22) . . . Now the duty of Eliakim was to be the faithful steward of the house . . . So then what Jesus is saying to Peter is that in the days to come, he will be the steward of the Kingdom.

INteresting.
K, I will have to look those passages up.
And I have a huge busy holiday weekend.
But this is good stuff.
ty

In biblical and Judaic usage handing over the keys does not mean appointment as a porter but carries the thought of full authorization (cf. Mt. 13:52; Rev. 3:7) . . . The implication is that Jesus takes away this authority from the scribes and grants it to Peter.

k, more Scripture.......
AWEsome!
TY

The prime minister, more literally 'major-domo,' was the man called in Hebrew 'the one who is over the house,' a term borrowed from the Egyptian designation of the chief palace functionary . . .

K

Just as in Isaiah 22:22 the Lord puts the keys of the house of David on the shoulders of his servant Eliakim, so does Jesus hand over to Peter the keys of the house of the kingdom of heaven and by the same stroke establishes him as his superintendent. There is a connection between the house of the Church, the construction of which has just been mentioned and of which Peter is the foundation, and the celestial house of which he receives the keys. The connection between these two images is the notion of God's people.

Very cool.

Not only is Peter to have a leading role, but this role involves a daunting degree of authority (though not an authority which he alone carries, as may be seen from the repetition of the latter part of the verse in 18:18 with reference to the disciple group as a whole). The image of 'keys' (plural) perhaps suggests not so much the porter, who controls admission to the house, as the steward, who regulates its administration (cf. Is 22:22, in conjunction with 22:15). The issue then is not that of admission to the church . . . , but an authority derived from a 'delegation' of God's sovereignty.

Interesting. STill not what I thought myself.
(Which I'm sure I'm probably all wet anyhow)

The opening words of v.22, with their echo of 9:6, emphasize the God-given responsibility that went with it [possession of the keys], to be used in the king's interests. The 'shutting' and 'opening' mean the power to make decisions which no one under the king could override. This is the background of the commission to Peter (cf. Mt 16:19) and to the church (cf. Mt 18:18).

Hmmm.

For further references to the office of the steward in Old Testament times, see 1 Kings 4:6; 16:9; 18:3; 2 Kings 10:5; 15:5; 18:18, where the phrases used are "over the house," "steward," or "governor." In Isaiah 22:15, in the same passage to which our Lord apparently refers in Matt 16:19, Shebna, the soon-to-be deposed steward, is described in various translations as:

1) "Master of the palace" {Jerusalem Bible / New American Bible}​

2) "In charge of the palace" {New International Version}​

3) "Master of the household" {New Revised Standard Version}​

4) "In charge of the royal household" {New American Standard Bible}​

5) "Comptroller of the household" {Revised English Bible}​

6) "Governor of the palace" {Moffatt}​

As the robe and the baldric, mentioned in the preceding verse, were the ensigns of power and authority, so likewise was the key the mark of office, either sacred or civil. This mark of office was likewise among the Greeks, as here in Isaiah, borne on the shoulder. In allusion to the image of the key as the ensign of power, the unlimited extent of that power is expressed with great clearness as well as force by the sole and exclusive authority to open and shut. Our Saviour, therefore, has upon a similar occasion made use of a like manner of expression, Matt 16:19; and in Rev 3:7 has applied to himself the very words of the prophet.

WOW, there's some commentary there.

(Adam Clarke, [Methodist], Commentary on the Bible, abridged ed., Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1967 [orig. 1832], 581)

In the . . . exercise of the power of the keys, in ecclesiastical discipline, the thought is of administrative authority (Is 22:22) with regard to the requirements of the household of faith. The use of censures, excommunication, and absolution is committed to the Church in every age, to be used under the guidance of the Spirit . . .

So Peter, in T.W. Manson's words, is to be 'God's vicegerent . . . The authority of Peter is an authority to declare what is right and wrong for the Christian community. His decisions will be confirmed by God' (The Sayings of Jesus, 1954, p.205).

(New Bible Dictionary, ed. J.D. Douglas, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1962, 1018)

Yeah, I don't see this implication myself.
Isnt it sort of a stretch of His Words?

I can show how the First Fathers of the Church interpreted this also but it's obvious Jesus does not give the keys of the kingdom “to his Apostles.” Jesus gives the keys to Peter alone. If Jesus really gives Peter alone the keys, then it looks like Peter has special authority that the other apostles do not have.What "role" did Christ give "individually" to Peter? Well, in Matthew 16:17-19, Christ individually imparts to Peter the office of "Rock," "Key-bearer," and the authority to "bind and loosen." Also, in Luke 22:31-32, the Lord individually imparts to Peter the task of strengthening his brethren (i.e. the other Apostles). Also, in John 21:15-19, the Lord makes Peter a shepherd, telling him three times to "feed my lambs" and "tend my sheep."Peter unlocks the door to the Gentiles because he is the one with the keys. Unlocking the door to the Gentiles is a divine act that only Jesus can do, and yet Peter performs the act. Why? Because Jesus delegated divine authority to Peter, and Peter acts in Jesus’ name. Also, note that the authority to “bind and loose” is not limited to “unlocking the door to the Gentiles.” It also refers to declaring dogmatic and disciplinary decrees as well as forgiving and retaining sin (which is set forth in the passage John 20:21-23).

Yeah, this is more along the lines I was
thinking (the red letters)

The Greek uses the passive voice which indicates that heaven is receiving the binding and loosing from Peter. This is an incredible statement that Jesus makes. Heaven will ratify Peter’s binding and loosing decisions. But in order for this to be true, Peter must be prevented from teaching error, for God cannot lie. Thus, God must penetrate the mind of Peter (just as He did when Peter confessed Jesus as the Messiah) and prevent him from teaching error. Otherwise, Jesus could not make such a sweeping promise. All this supports the Catholic understanding of the papacy.

The papacy I'm not seeing, but thank you
for the great food for thought in those
passages.
I want to look at those before commenting.

What would you say, just in your own words
Trento that the main thing the keys are for
and represent, might be?

Thanks for the work,
sunlover

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wow, thank you LLOJ.
Interesting indeed and than you
for posting the verses as well.
(NOT that I see the connection,
but thanks just the same for sharing
God's word)

Thanks. Well, I use Exodus and Joshua a lot for Revelation or else it wouldn't make sense to me [but not saying it still does anyway LOL>]

Reve 6:8 And I saw and behold! a Horse, green, and the One sitting up on of it, name to him, the Death, and the Hades followed with Him and was given to them authority on the fourth of the land to-from-kill in sword/saber and in famine and in death and under/by the wild beast of the land. and was given to them authority on the fourth of the land to-from-kill in sword/saber and in famine and in death and by the wild beast of the land.

Exodus 15:1 Then sang Mosheh and the sons of Yisra'el this song unto YHWH, and they spake saying,--"I will sing to YHWH for He is exalted exalted,--The horse and his rider hath He cast into the Sea.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Very good post, Trento.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Keys are a metaphor. Ask yourself, what do keys do, and who holds keys? My son would love the keys to the car. I have the keys to my home, and give them only to those very few I trust to act accordingly. Keys are held by guardians of what is locked.

Keys, basically, are symbols for power, responsibility, safekeeping, and AUTHORITY.

 

[DeaconDean]

Scripture would be awesome and helpful.

sunlover

Some very good answers have been given so far, but mine is simple:

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." -Matt. 16:13-20 (KJV)

The keys to the kingdom are that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, there is a "dude" that appears to have a Key in Reve 9.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 10:18 and he said to them, `I was beholding the Adversary, as bright-star/lightning/astraphn <796> from the heaven having fallen/pesonta <4098>(5631);

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth messenger did sound, and I saw a star/astera <792> out of the heaven having fallen/peptwkota <4098> (5761)to the land, and there was given to it the Key of the well of the abyss,

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

What are the keys....

The authority that is given are the keys...


Mat 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Jhn 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

We must be careful that we do not confuse authority with power. The power is from God... and the authority was given by God to his Apostles.

Forgive me...

 

[Fireinfolding]

Sun, Onemouth e-mailed me her post to your thread, shes having trouble staying signed on, besides shes not much for power board posting

 

[sunlover1]

Sun, Onemouth e-mailed me her post to your thread, shes having trouble staying signed on, besides shes not much for power board posting

OH COOL!!
So .. bring it on?

 

[Fireinfolding]

OH COOL!!
So .. bring it on?

I e-mailed her reply to you, did you get it? She doesnt always like to post her posts openly on huge power boards sis, she's a private board and e-mail person.

I cant blame her neither, she been around the block more then a few times to know what to share openly and what to keep to herself lol

 

[WarriorAngel]

Keys = authority of the truth.

Isaias 22, Christ has the keys....
Matthew 16, He hands them over to Peter.....
Revelation shows the one with the keys will be saved.

It should make for critical thinking if one is interested in the truth...and ultimately salvation.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: 8 I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[christianmomof3]

19 I will give to you the 1akeys of the 2kingdom of the heavens, and whatever you 3bbind on the earth shall 4have been bound in the heavens, and whatever you 3loose on the earth shall 4have been loosed in the heavens.

191 According to history there were two keys. Peter used one on the day of Pentecost to open the gate so that the Jewish believers could enter the kingdom of the heavens (Acts 2:38-42), and he used the other in the house of Cornelius to open the gate so that the Gentile believers could enter (Acts 10:34-48).

http://online.recoveryversion.org/

 

[DeaconDean]

and the authority was given by God to his Apostles.

There we go, I was waiting for this to be said. I knew it would come sonner or later from somebody.

Since this will sooner or later get to the point of "the authority of the disciples, and the authority of the popes," I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[sunlover1]

I e-mailed her reply to you, did you get it? She doesnt always like to post her posts openly on huge power boards sis, she's a private board and e-mail person.

I cant blame her neither, she been around the block more then a few times to know what to share openly and what to keep to herself lol

Wow, that was a great post she sent.

Thank you so much for forwarding that on to me.
Interesting insights huh?

Keys = authority of the truth.

Isaias 22, Christ has the keys....
Matthew 16, He hands them over to Peter.....
Revelation shows the one with the keys will be saved.

Cool, so that's Peter? Or we all get the keys??
I don't follow.

It should make for critical thinking if one is interested in the truth...and ultimately salvation.

I think a lot of folks here are looking for truth,
and obviously we're all interested in salvation.
(you're not saying salvation has anything to do
with Peter right?)

191 According to history there were two keys. Peter used one on the day of Pentecost to open the gate so that the Jewish believers could enter the kingdom of the heavens (Acts 2:38-42), and he used the other in the house of Cornelius to open the gate so that the Gentile believers could enter (Acts 10:34-48).

http://online.recoveryversion.org/

How interesting Christianmom!!
WOW, that there is pure LOGIC.
He DID do those things!!
VERY interesting...

Hey, thank you. Wonder if that's it.
Sounds like a HUGE mission to me.

There we go, I was waiting for this to be said. I knew it would come sonner or later from somebody.

Since this will sooner or later get to the point of "the authority of the disciples, and the authority of the popes," I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Cool, thanks DD,
I get it.
14 Do everything without complaining and arguing,
15 so that no one can criticize you.
Live clean, innocent lives as children of God,
shining like bright lights in a world full of crooked and perverse people.http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=38447872#_ftn1
http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=38447872#_ftnref1

 

[GeratTzedek]

There we go, I was waiting for this to be said. I knew it would come sonner or later from somebody.

Since this will sooner or later get to the point of "the authority of the disciples, and the authority of the popes," I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Sorry to see you go, Deacon. But well, there you have it. If keys are the symbol for authority, and the keys were given to Peter... the best one could do is say they were given to Peter on behalf of the apostles. To say they are given to all believers is to make them meaningless. You might as well just leave a door unlocked than give the key to everyone. As someone raised Protestant, I have to say Protestant ways of haggling with this section of Scripture really leave something to be desired.

 

[Fireinfolding]

It says what? I will give you the keys to the Kingdom... and wasnt it Peter who says "an entrance" will be ministered "unto you" into the Kingdom?

If He had the keys (after this manner) in relation to the Kingdom how do others understand Peter saying to them that an entrance shall be "ministered unto them" into the Kingdom (as well)? Now its not literally "keys" (spiritual ones) but so is "the entrance" given it is a "ministered" one.


One set of keys speak of binding and losing, Jesus is shown having the Keys of David in Revelation. He has the keys of death and hell. Jesus has the power which pertains to "opening" what ~no man~ "can shut" which appears to be consistent with "the entrance" (that shall be ministered unto one) sounds much like "I set before thee an open door" (wouldnt require keys huh?) given the door that is opened is set before one (an entrance).

Ugh, I cant think... its late see ya's in the morning

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

There we go, I was waiting for this to be said. I knew it would come sonner or later from somebody.

Since this will sooner or later get to the point of "the authority of the disciples, and the authority of the popes," I'm gonna bow out of this discussion.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Ummm.... I don't follow the Pope.

Forgive me...