Some Advice?

[Telaquapacky]

I've only got a few minutes, but I felt a need to address a bit of your post to me, Lainie.

I'll try and give a more full responce when I have the time, too. So keep in mind this is just what I feel impressed to write this minute.

One very important thing that tends to shape how I relate to other Christians, and how very very hard it is for me to be offended or get upset..is because of my mom.

Don't get be wrong. I love her, and she loves Jesus and God, and she's read the Bible a lot. But she comes from the area you mentioned. That it is written in error and by man, and even to the point she will profess there is evil within it.

I tried to argue this, and it never got anywhere. So I learned to accept it as her view and love her for it as her free will. It in no way relates to how I think of the Bible, right?

I don't fight anymore. Not even blasphemy, instead I approach it with love and acceptance and with trust that God will help me to help them see the Truth because I allow myself to not build a wall between myself and them.

Is this wrong? Maybe. A lot of Christians don't practice this, and I'm aware of that. Heck, my mom will stand up and fight me as if I was Satan himself at times because I blaspheme her.

Anyway, I must go to sleep. I hope this clears up a bit how I react to things..

Happy Sabbath everyone!

Blessings and love

Nice, Crimson!
I would be curious about whether the people who are least accepting and most critical of non-Traditional-Adventist views are those born in Adventist homes to Adventist families, who went to Adventist schools, eat only Adventist food, drive Adventist cars, and never had much exposure to "outsiders."

I maintain that it is possible to keep an orthodox SDA point of view, while exposed to heterodox views without provoking the other person. You just can't always expect to be accepted or believed, but if you take it graciously it goes a lot farther toward the possibility of winning the other person than starting a fight with them.

I was converted at age 25 and am the only Adventist in my family. I can truly relate to what Crimson Sky is saying.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Nice, Crimson!
I would be curious about whether the people who are least accepting and most critical of non-Traditional-Adventist views are those born in Adventist homes to Adventist families, who went to Adventist schools, eat only Adventist food, drive Adventist cars, and never had much exposure to "outsiders."

I'm the complete opposite of what you just described, just so you know.

I grew up Baptist. My parents were religious off-and-on, and eventually just arranged for the church bus to pick us up on Sundays. They got a few hours break from us and we were among "positive" influences so it worked out for them.

Until we repeated that the church said our parents were going straight to hell since they didn't go to church. That threw a wrench into their kid-free Sundays so they started going to church again and my dad even got baptized.

My mom marched us out of the church one Sunday as the preacher announced that a 10% tithe meant 10% of wages BEFORE taxes.

I didn't set foot in a church for almost 14 years after that and it was only because I found out I was dying of a brain tumor. I was trying to buy "fire insurance".

After I survived two brain tumors (praise God), I kind of forgot (on purpose) all the promises I had made God about the things I would do with my life.

My parents, who still consider themselves Baptist, haven't set foot in a church in decades.

I reunited with my husband after 19 years of being apart (we were childhood sweethearts) and he was Wiccan at the time. The only "religious" influence I had in my life was that...but he wasn't really a practicing Wiccan anymore so it wasn't much of an influence at all.

It was through a horrible tragedy that my husband said "tell me about YOUR God because mine sure isn't doing anything for me". And that's when I realized I really knew NOTHING of the God I professed to love.

We became Christians together actually. That was in 2003. We decided to read the bible (neither of us had) after Austin's mom told us that the dead sleep (I SERIOUSLY read the bible to prove her wrong) and if we came to the same conclusions, we'd go church shopping. We found our church and we were baptized in 2004. I was 36 and Austin was 35.

There are NO Adventists in my family. In fact, they all think I'm crazy for joining a church that believes the dead sleep and for actually wanting to just spend time with God every Saturday.

Austin's mom is Adventist but she really wasn't much of an influence in his life or mine. We lived in Colorado, she lived in Arkansas.

I just couldn't prove her wrong.

I went to public schools my entire life. I didn't even know Adventist schools existed until I joined the church.

I maintain that it is possible to keep an orthodox SDA point of view, while exposed to heterodox views without provoking the other person. You just can't always expect to be accepted or believed, but if you take it graciously it goes a lot farther toward the possibility of winning the other person than starting a fight with them.

I was converted at age 25 and am the only Adventist in my family. I can truly relate to what Crimson Sky is saying.

You and I are more similar than you think and so far your assumptions about me have been WAY off brother.

It's okay though, I totally understand.

What *I* have found in the last three years is that the people that were raised in Adventist churches, went to Adventist schools, drove Adventist cars (ha), etc are the ones that rebel against the Adventist message the most.

I think you'll discover that too, eventually. Give it some time.

 

[Jon0388g]

Nice, Crimson!
I would be curious about whether the people who are least accepting and most critical of non-Traditional-Adventist views are those born in Adventist homes to Adventist families, who went to Adventist schools, eat only Adventist food, drive Adventist cars, and never had much exposure to "outsiders."

I didn't go to an Adventist school (we don't have any in the UK), and I don't know what "Adventist food" is (except Kellog's cereal!) I have a Fiat Punto, is that Adventist?

However, I was born and raised Adventist, and much to the contrary of your opinion, it is actually more likely, especially in the way I was raised and the culture, to be lost whilst sitting in Sabbath School every week. It doesn't have anything to do with non-Traditional opinion/outsider's views. Most of my teen years were spent sketching/chatting/sleeping at the back of church. It was a hangout at the end of the week.


Remember the parable of the lost coin. Unlike the lost sheep, the coin did not know it was lost. It was in the house of the owner, oblivious to its status. If it could speak, it would probably have said, "I'm saved."



So, just because I was born into the Adventist church, does not mean I am "indoctrinted" and "brainwashed" like some members of this forum like to label me. I had to learn and unlearn many things, in a short space of time, just like Lainie did. I might as well have been atheist. By the grace of God, my eyes were opened wide by a specific Pastor who's had a more monumental effect on my life than he knows.


Of whom much is given, much will be required.



Jon

 

[TrustAndObey]

Very good points Jon!

 

[woobadooba]

Telaquapacky,

All I have to say to you is that you haven't been here long enough to really see what's going on, and are therefore speaking out of ignorance.

Do you see how long I've been here? I know what this forum has been through, and can tell you that it's not an issue of not accepting outsiders or lacking open-mindedness. It's an issue of Christian integrity.

The progressives have done nothing in this forum to contribute to the betterment of the people within it. All they do is complain about the church and its doctrines, while insulting those that don't agree with them with condescending rhetoric.

They are like the Isarelites that wandered through the wilderness, wishing that they were back in Egypt.

God is calling us to come out of Babylon, not to return to it. If the progressives had their way they would turn our church upside down.

 

[Telaquapacky]

I would be curious about whether the people who are least accepting and most critical of non-Traditional-Adventist views are those born in Adventist homes to Adventist families, who went to Adventist schools, eat only Adventist food, drive Adventist cars, and never had much exposure to "outsiders."

What I have found in the last three years is that the people that were raised in Adventist churches, went to Adventist schools, drove Adventist cars (ha), etc are the ones that rebel against the Adventist message the most.

I think you'll discover that too, eventually. Give it some time.

However, I was born and raised Adventist, and much to the contrary of your opinion, it is actually more likely, especially in the way I was raised and the culture, to be lost whilst sitting in Sabbath School every week. It doesn't have anything to do with non-Traditional opinion/outsider's views. Most of my teen years were spent sketching/chatting/sleeping at the back of church. It was a hangout at the end of the week.

I’ve seen that, Trusty and Jon. When I first encountered it among “born Adventists” when I was a new convert having come out of a life of turmoil, I couldn’t believe that they placed so little value on their Adventist upbringing. I wished to the Lord I had been brought up in an Adventist home (of course God knows better, I probably would have rebelled).

But there is another group of “born-in-the-church SDA’s” who live a sheltered life, and when exposed to outsiders and different religious attitudes, they don’t know how to react- and they can be very unloving. They don’t mean to be, they just don’t know any better.

There is yet another group, including converts who have had the same experience I had before coming to Jesus, and who after they become Adventists try to create an insulated environment for themselves, and they can’t tolerate anyone who breaks the peace of their little “Potemkin Village” with any re-exposure to the outside world.

Thing is, we have to get out of the salt shaker to be the savor of salt in the world. It’s dirty and stinky out there. But that didn’t keep Jesus from coming here.

Indeed, Jon, of whom much is given, much will be required. The biggest and most difficult thing that is required is loving people who hold onto things we have been taught to hold in contempt, in the hope that that love will win them for Jesus.

God is calling us to come out of Babylon, not to return to it. If the progressives had their way they would turn our church upside down.

We are called to places worse than Babylon to win souls through Christ’s love. If the progressives have succeeded in making you retaliate in anger, they have succeeded in turning you upside down.

Don't let them turn you 'round. Remember, I’m not saying “don’t share the truth.” I’m saying, share the truth in love- even if no one else does.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I wish I had been raised Adventist too, but I DEFINITELY would've rebelled. I rebelled against being a Baptist and that's about as liberal as you can get on most subjects (except dancing of course).

Why you gotta keep coming up with new "groups?" Cause the first one didn't fit AT ALL? (Just messin' with ya).

I don't have an insulated environment. There ain't nothing like being an Adventist in the middle of some of the most opinionated Baptists in the world. Trust me on this one.

 

[OntheDL]

Lainie, thanks for sharing your story. I knew God has something special for you. And Sarah, you are wise and mature beyond your age. If the testimonies of Lainie and Sarah aren't evident enough to demonstrate the power and love of God, I don't know what will.

The parents in the church fall short and make compromise. Often we don't practice what we preach. The children are quick to catch on. In my church, we have youth leaders who take the kids to restaurants after the sabbath morning service, we have parents taking their kids to play on soccer team on sabbath morning, we have Valentine's party at church... And the elders of the church don't have enough backbones to call sin by its name. No wonder when kids become adults they leave the church.

I truly believe the more formal adventist education a person has, the more confused he/she can become.

I have been on the board of trustees for an adventist academy for a couple of years. I can see clearly how the conference tries to destroy the school. From pulling funds on years when they received record high in tithe, to under-paying the teachers, to pushing unqualified teacher/principle candidates down to the school...

When we look at Moriah's experience in which she was unsuspectingly introduced to demon possession by college president while attending CUC thinking she's in the school of God's church. It's not an isolated incident. Now GC trains thousands of new pastor with NLP, neural linguistic programming: an art of hypnosis.

SOP tells us when one person allows his mind to be controlled by another man, both are under the control of Satan.

Not only that, the new age curriculums become required reading. Many adventist schools now fire certified NLP wizards to train young pastor.

I'm not saying there are no God's people in the leadership. But the top of the structure has become Catholic. We saw during general conference sessions, they tried to supersede local church authority in disfellowship church members.

And a couple of years ago GC made a secrete pact with RCC for the acceptance of SDA church into mainstream christianity in return for dropping our 'aggressive' teachings on the harlot of revelation and the antichrist. We saw the new NET series evangelism omitted the Vicarius Filli Dei from it.

SDA church is the most heavily infiltrated by the Jesuits among all protestant churches. I posted some evidence on these before but was called a conspiracy theorist.

The system is designed to destroy our faith. Ellen White wrote that some conferences will collapse. Many who grow up in the faith will wax cold. But God will call people from outside, which I see in my local church and on this forum, to uphold the standard.

I see these things which had been foretold by inspiration, I rejoice in knowing God is still in control.

 

[TrustAndObey]

DL, did you notice that the person that called you a conspiracy theorist is constantly posting about conspiracies WITHIN the Adventist church? Like hiding the minutes from a 1919 meeting?

Yeah.

It's only a true conspiracy when others agree that it is, right?

I always believed in God and Jesus and I always felt a heavy burden on my heart to do what was right. I didn't always do it, and I'm very open about that, but I never quit hearing the still small voice....praise God!

Even though I believed in Them, I didn't really always LIKE Them. What I mean is, I couldn't understand eternal torment in hell. I was so relieved when I read the bible, but still confused about some of the verses that seem to imply eternal torment.

It hit me right away that bible study is imperative, not just a "good idea".

One of the first Sabbath school classes I went to talked about HOW to study the bible (according TO the bible).....and I am so grateful that it was one of the first ones because that study, above all the others, helped me the most.

The next study was the state of the dead.

Now I shared how I felt about that, that I had read the bible just to prove my mother-in-law WRONG, right?

Well there it was facing me like a brick wall and I can remember literally thinking to myself "okay Lainie, now is the time. You either totally believe it or you don't believe it at all and you need to find another church."

Line upon line, precept upon precept....I knew it was the truth. I was compelled to listen, led to listen, and now it is one of my favorite subjects because it just makes SO MUCH SENSE!

I think I've debated that subject more than any other, and although most of the time I felt like I was wasting my typing skills, I did have someone from GT tell me recently that they lurked on a thread where I was talking about it....and now they're Adventist.

Night mentioned that people should be flocking to our church in droves, and I still contend that the reason they don't is because of our message about the state of the dead. People WANT to believe in the fairytale.

However, there are just as many people that cannot understand a God that would torment the wicked through the ceaseless ages of eternity, and I think that is a VERY important message to get out there...that He DOESN'T.

Up until recently we couldn't talk about that subject on here, and now that we can, I haven't had as much time to come here.

I need to make time because God has obviously paved the way for us to get that message out <hint hint to the rest of you>.

Give people the God they KNOW exists, but struggle with because they feel He isn't that merciful. Every single one of us has lost someone that wasn't a Christian and we know what it's like to imagine them in agony, suffering every second.

Them sleeping is BETTER than that fairytale we hear so much about!

Once they accept that biblical truth, the rest falls in line and you realize it all really is a conspiracy theory. Satan mixes lies in with the truth, and when you realize just how subtle he really is.....wow.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I forgot to mention that in the church I grew up in, they always talked about a literal beast with ten horns. I was a young kid thinking "yeah right, WHO would worship something like that willingly?"

I was a smart kid.

Doesn't it all really start making sense when you realize who the beast power really is?

At first I was in shock to actually hear someone SAY it (and you're right OntheDL, you don't hear it that often anymore), but all the clues we're given in scripture definitely point in that direction. Amen?

I remember thinking "another CHURCH system? No way!"

But line upon line, precept upon precept...you betcha, it's right there.

And that was one of those "subtle" things that hit me like a ton of bricks too. Then so much of the things I'd seen in my life made total sense!

Seriously, for me, it made me go from believing in God to really KNOWING that He was in charge and protecting His people.

He wouldn't tell us to steer clear of the beast power and then not tell us WHO the beast power IS!

 

[TrustAndObey]

One more thing (lol...I'm sorry I'm Chatty Cathy this morning)....

I grew up being told to obey the 10 commandments. There wasn't any wiggle room, you obeyed them because you love God and that's definitely what Baptists teach.

What's funny is that my childhood pastor went through all ten of the commandments one Sunday and got to the Sabbath commandment and said "you're obeying that one right now by being here."

So as I read the bible for the first time, there was absolutely NO doubt in my mind that the Sabbath was still very important. I read how Christ fought the Pharisees so adamantly about it, etc. but I didn't realize that Saturday was the seventh day.

I've mentioned before that things just fall in my lap when I'm praying for answers, and the Sabbath was like that too.

My son was watching Noggin and every day they go through the days of the week and they'll say something like "today is Saturday. The seventh day of the week!"

I'd heard it before on that station, but I had JUST finished reading about Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for trying to say He had broken the Sabbath when it came on one day.

So I got online and looked, and sure enough, Saturday is the 7th day.

I know this probably sounds lame to some of you, but I always believed that Sunday was the last day of the week. That's why school started on Monday,etc. Saturday and Sunday are always referred to as the "weekend".

I'm being totally serious here. We never went over what order the days fall into in school, so I just assumed Sunday was the 7th day.

When I first joined this site, I started a questionnaire where you can win blessings, etc One of the first questions I asked was "which day of the week is the seventh day?"

You would not believe how many people clicked on SUNDAY! So I definitely wasn't alone!

There really are some people out there that think Sunday is the 7th day, so they do believe in the commandment and want to keep it, but don't have a clue that they're doing it on the wrong day! I was one of 'em.

 

[DarylFawcett]

I came from two backgrounds before coming into the SDA Church.

My first background was the United Church of Canada. That was where my parents sent me, even though they never attended themselves. They weren't church goers.

My second background was the United Baptist Church. This is where I was invited by a Baptist friend to one of their Young Peoples Group, which is where I became a Christian. I remained in the United Baptist Church until I came upon a SDA couple who I decided to tell them how wrong they were about such things as the Sabbath, State of the Dead, etc. I told them that Sunday was the Lord's day, or Christ's day. As I studied the Scriptures to prove them wrong, I soon learned that the Bible backed up their doctrines on the Sabbath, the State of the Dead, etc., therefore, soon after I became a SDA and have been one ever since. So far, I haven't found any other church that has as much truth all in on church as the SDA Church does.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

Lainie, thanks for sharing your story. I knew God has something special for you. And Sarah, you are wise and mature beyond your age. If the testimonies of Lainie and Sarah aren't evident enough to demonstrate the power and love of God, I don't know what will.

The parents in the church fall short and make compromise. Often we don't practice what we preach. The children are quick to catch on. In my church, we have youth leaders who take the kids to restaurants after the sabbath morning service, we have parents taking their kids to play on soccer team on sabbath morning, we have Valentine's party at church... And the elders of the church don't have enough backbones to call sin by its name. No wonder when kids become adults they leave the church.

I truly believe the more formal adventist education a person has, the more confused he/she can become.

I have been on the board of trustees for an adventist academy for a couple of years. I can see clearly how the conference tries to destroy the school. From pulling funds on years when they received record high in tithe, to under-paying the teachers, to pushing unqualified teacher/principle candidates down to the school...

When we look at Moriah's experience in which she was unsuspectingly introduced to demon possession by college president while attending CUC thinking she's in the school of God's church. It's not an isolated incident. Now GC trains thousands of new pastor with NLP, neural linguistic programming: an art of hypnosis.

SOP tells us when one person allows his mind to be controlled by another man, both are under the control of Satan.

Not only that, the new age curriculums become required reading. Many adventist schools now fire certified NLP wizards to train young pastor.

I'm not saying there are no God's people in the leadership. But the top of the structure has become Catholic. We saw during general conference sessions, they tried to supersede local church authority in disfellowship church members.

And a couple of years ago GC made a secrete pact with RCC for the acceptance of SDA church into mainstream christianity in return for dropping our 'aggressive' teachings on the harlot of revelation and the antichrist. We saw the new NET series evangelism omitted the Vicarius Filli Dei from it.

SDA church is the most heavily infiltrated by the Jesuits among all protestant churches. I posted some evidence on these before but was called a conspiracy theorist.

The system is designed to destroy our faith. Ellen White wrote that some conferences will collapse. Many who grow up in the faith will wax cold. But God will call people from outside, which I see in my local church and on this forum, to uphold the standard.

I see these things which had been foretold by inspiration, I rejoice in knowing God is still in control.

Wow. There's a lot of stuff I don't think I wanted to know about my new church. *lol*

There was a time I honestly thought that everyone within the Adventist faith believed everything it taught, because it was just simply true. I thought it was a perfect church. Although waaaay off, there was some nice qualities of being in that nieave place.

You mentioned CUC. I've been campaigning with my family to go there for several months, after what I believe to be a sign from God that showed me to do so. (Lonnng story there). Where did Moriah talk about that? Getting slightly confused on whether it'd be a good idea to keep up the idea to go or just go to a secular Uni instead.

Nonetheless, I completely agree. For every bit of corruption that Satan manages to weasle into our Church, there will be God bringing in more of His Truth. For every one that leaves, another will join. He's not going to let Satan win completely, right?

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

As for your experience with the last day confusion, you certainly aren't alone! I grew up thinking the last day of the week was Saturday, because my calender said so. However, I considered Monday the first day of the week.

Apparently, no matter how dorky that sounds, I never made the connection that Sunday was non-existant by that standard! *lol* In my defense I was a kid through most of that.

I've run across a lot of people who consider Sunday to be the last, though. Most of the time they don't go by calenders, they go by work days. I can see how it's so easily confused.

Then you get the ones who will agree to Saturday being the Seventh, and insist that the first day is more important. But that's a whole different topic, isn't it?

...I can't remember my point, now. *scratches her head* Must be the lack of food.

 

[Olikamay]

We need to get back on topic here.

We have a very serious problem in our main forum.

Part of me is thankful to see the words because hopefully it will let our youth that visit here see that messing with the occult and satanism DESTROY people!

Setting the Record Straight


After I have done so, you may do with me what you will. But I will not rest in this field of inherent dishonesty in which the holy treacheries lie.

No single force or influence has been more responsible in my life for messing me up personally than the SDA doctrine/dogma/institution. NOT Satan. NOT demons. NOT the occult. NOT even all the drugs I took as a teenager. But the SDA.

Because of the SDA I have spent the past two and a half decades of my life at war with myself, in turmoil, terror and conflict, afraid to create, afraid to write, afraid to produce, afraid to send anything from my hands forth into the world lest I one day be demanded to "answer for it" in particularly SDA vernacular and form with all that phrase implies. I have been afraid of the works of my own hands lest anything be "writ or carved in stone" as it were. My brilliance and my creativity have gone stultified, censored, muzzled, unfulfilled, and ALL I might have been or done in my life was muted and curtailed as a result of NOT Satan, NOT demons, NOT the occult, but my exposure to the SDA.

Because of the SDA my entire experience of God Himself has been molested and destroyed. I cannot distinguish in my own mind any authentic perception of God just as Himself (though I know I have had this before) without their doctrine, their dogma, their SLANT burned and branded and etched into every fiber of it, tainting, bending, shaping, corrupting, occluding it.

SATAN has not been the great evil in my life, not the source of terror and horror causing me to flee down endless corridors of dissociation to escape until I am but a hollow shell of anatta filled with howling demons and the chittering minions of Choronzon. NO. SATAN has been my Protector, My Defender My Initiator My Teacher My Guardian My GUIDE My LOVER my FRIEND. HE HAS NEVER ONCE MISTREATED ME. SATAN HAS NEVER ONCE MISTREATED ME.

If anything, I have mistreated HIM. I have been the one to be unworthy of HIS love, not the other way around. For the sake of pain and terror I have fled and betrayed Him numerous times and EVERY TIME He has taken me back with as much if not more grace and graciousness as has ever been attributed to Jesus Christ. *I* have been the one to play Gomer to His Hosea, to flee like a traitorous and ungrateful, faithless wh0re, to toy with old sweetnesses that could not be mine and though He MIGHT have cast me into the streets to die a dung-stinking death as a forsaken Harlot HE HAS NOT DEALT WITH ME AS I DESERVE.

Satan has NEVER mistreated me, not once. All things I may ever have said to the contrary have been LIES wrung forth from me by desperate attempts to be something I am not and can never be..... something I am done with pretending myself to be, something barred and locked to me and that is sweet and agreeable and happy in the lies that I am compelled to make for the sake of any impotent sovereign. (I do not regard God as such but rather my experience of Him was onetime this and so I use these words to describe that subjective thing only.)

Let the record show that Satan has never mistreated me.
Let the record show that Satan and demons and the occult have nowhere near MESSED ME UP fractured my mind and my consciousness to the extent that exposure to the SDA has done.

Let the record STAND. Make of it what ye will; I well know what crimson judgment awaits me at the filthy dungstinking foul foetid and molesting hands of some of you who would rather destroy me than bear the truth to be told in your faces.

But for you who do not accept, for you who see beyond, reach out and take my hand and be not afraid.

Moriah, Conquering Wind.

Now this is two-fold my friends. Watch how the Progressive Adventists aren't saying anything.

Do you want to know why they aren't saying anything? They want to be able to say that we ran someone off that was hurting and needed our help.

They can't possibly agree with her! But they'll remain silent in hopes that we look like the bad guys.

Come help talk some sense into this person. This is very scary.

 

[TrustAndObey]

You were dead-on with that one OlikaMay.

When Night finally came him he simply emphasized a line against the Adventist church and didn't bother telling Moriah that satan is a deceiver.

It is a scary thing that she's saying and I saw that she was already reported for some of her comments to Wooba. Everybody agreeing with her is going to say that we're intolerant, yada yada yada.

I don't know what else to say than what I already have.

Prayer....pray, pray, pray.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

You were dead-on with that one OlikaMay.

When Night finally came him he simply emphasized a line against the Adventist church and didn't bother telling Moriah that satan is a deceiver.

It is a scary thing that she's saying and I saw that she was already reported for some of her comments to Wooba. Everybody agreeing with her is going to say that we're intolerant, yada yada yada.

I don't know what else to say than what I already have.

Prayer....pray, pray, pray.

I agree. Prayer is very important in this situation. Especially before any of us post in topics of this sort. Speaking of our own behalf will only make things worse, only God's words through us can help.

 

[Jon0388g]

I am voting for the split. Things have crossed the line for me. Open apostasy and subtle satanism cannot be tolerated. Prayer is needed, but the Bible also says judge righteous judgement. Remove the wicked man from amongst yourselves.


Sorry if I disappoint any of you in doing this.


Jon

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

I am voting for the split. Things have crossed the line for me. Open apostasy and subtle satanism cannot be tolerated. Prayer is needed, but the Bible also says judge righteous judgement. Remove the wicked man from amongst yourselves.


Sorry if I disappoint any of you in doing this.


Jon

Sorry to hear that, Jon. I'm still against it, but I do understand where you're coming from to an extent.

 

[mva1985]

I am voting for the split. Things have crossed the line for me. Open apostasy and subtle satanism cannot be tolerated. Prayer is needed, but the Bible also says judge righteous judgement. Remove the wicked man from amongst yourselves.


Sorry if I disappoint any of you in doing this.


Jon

Jon,

You are certainly entitled to vote how you want. I believe it is good for us to finally see where Moriah is coming from, and for that I am glad. Regardless of what we believe we are subject to this kind of thing everyday. Maybe not to the extent as she has admitted in the thread. But at least it is more clear.

I agree that we should still pray for her, and where possible we should encourage her in the ways of Christ and not of satan. You are very correct that she can still change her fate but satan can't change his.

Just my two cents.