Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)

[cygnusx1]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

couldn't have said it better!

there is something sneaky about this experiment/method that doesn't gell right.

 

[Dannager]

The title of "Christian" is huge to me. It is a title I was given by Christ, and I get offended when I see people wanting to wipe it away.

Really? When did Christ give you that title? And who is trying to wipe that title away from you? Only those who tell others that they are not Christian are trying to wipe that title away. You aren't this website. Its title is not your title.

 

[infaile]

I think it does make some sense as an ex post facto explanation.

(Had to look that up. I'm not a debater; I'm not familiar with all the terms!)

lol, well, I couldn't provide an explanation beforehand, despite knowing Erwin, as the man himself has a private brain - don't we all? - and his motives were his alone. They still are; I can only look at what's visible and try to make some sense of it.

The best that most humans can do in the face of a problem is work out (retrospectively - the only real way!) what caused it, and try to avoid it in future.

 

[D'Ann]

Welcome to the new site: Bait and Switch.

Sell it to our friends and family as just being a nice little "networking" site, and then pounce on them in that it's a site with another motive. Great honesty and integrity... like being transparent too. NOT

5. How would non-Christians find the site if it's going to fall in the search engine rankings?

One of my posts was misunderstood. Before, the site was ranked number 1 in most search engines for the keywords "christian forums". This was how we got most of our traffic - lots of Christians joining up.

The non-Christians who found us through search engines tended to be those who were looking for online Christian forums to find Christians to debate with - usually not seekers. This is why some non-Christian members on this site seem, to some Christians, to be argumentative.

Now that the domain name is changed, this site will no longer be found using the same keywords of "christian forums". However, all threads and posts will still be in the search engines, and they can still be found. Our pagerank will drop, but I anticipate that over a long time it will improve.

So how else will Christians and non-Christians find this site? The hope is that the current members will invite their Christian and non-Christian friends to join. The Christian friends because this site is still Christian, just not overtly so for outreach purposes.

The thing is that it will now be a lot easier to invite your non-Christian friends to come - and these will be your everyday work colleagues, acquaintances, neighbours - they will be more likely to sign up to a site that is not overtly Christian and threatening like that. This is why I have a generic domain name, and a slogan that is not obviously Christian (I know it needs work - it's temporary) - it is hoped that Christians will feel that it is easier to invite non-Christians to join the site here. Through friendship and fellowship, it is hoped that these non-Christians, who will not be people who are joining up specifically with an agenda to argue with Christians, would be more receptive to the good news.

At least that is my vision.

http://foru.ms/t5956429-forums-faq-to-recent-changes.html

 

[CaDan]

If you live in the United States and are over a "certain age," you may remember the movement for christian coffee shops. This was long before the era of Starbucks.

They were meant to provide some sort of "alternative" to the horrible hippy lifestyle and were one of the things that went kind of hand in hand with the Jesus Movement. Mark Curtis Anderson describes on in "Jesus Sound Explosion:"

"Inner City Ministry" was the buzz phrase among evangelical christians in the early seventies, and the secular city was the new mission field. The Wreck, an evangelical flop pad in the church basement, was designed to reach out to city kids: the disaffected, the disillusioned, the troubled, the bothered.

* * *

The room was painted in fluorescent pastels that glowed under black lights, filled with telephone cable spool tables and black bar stool, and decorated with posters that shouted "Jesus Is Now!" and "Join the Jesus Generation." A white net hung across the ceiling above black velvet posters of the Last Supper and crucifixion of Christ. In a corner, a pink a purple bathtub filled with pillows cradled stoners and spiritually strung-out church kids.

* * *

[T]eenagers would enter The Wreck and discover a new place to hang out, return a second time and become friends with members of The Sure Foundation, join The Sure Foundation, sing with the group at a church service in the sanctuary and decide it wasn't such a bad place, accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior, get baptized and become church members.​

I'm kind of getting a feeling of deja vu.

 

[D'Ann]

Unfortunately or fortunately, this is not the 60's or 70's or 80's... or 90's. I remember those coffee shops and most of my high school friends never would go to one of them. But then that was the 70s.

 

[Nadiine]

Really? When did Christ give you that title? And who is trying to wipe that title away from you? Only those who tell others that they are not Christian are trying to wipe that title away. You aren't this website. Its title is not your title.

Oh please, let the guy the post his feelings already!

Do we have to ANALyze absolutely everything under a microscope?
God DID give him the title of Christian (Christ-follower), this sites name was CHRISTIAN forums - now removed when he joined the site on purpose to display that name.
IT MEANT SOMETHING TO HIM.... God forbid, is that so horrible?
The American flag may not mean dirt to one American, but to another it can hold serious meaning!

Leave the poor guy his feelings to share here.
thank u

 

[tkoman]

From Erwin's FAQ, the name change is basicly done to trick non-Christians into becoming active on this site so we can then bombard them with Christian thinking. Sorry, but that is a huge turn off for non-Christians.

And many of us Christians as well. Alarming.

 

[snoochface]

For CaDan, here is my perspective on the name change.

If years ago when I came across this place it had been called foru.ms instead of christianforums -- putting aside whether or not that name would have enticed me to visit the site for a moment -- I don't think I would have cared all that much. To me, it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth when something includes the name of Christ, and then his name is removed for ambiguous and nebulous reasons. It's not so much what the name of the forum is now. It's that we got here by removing Christ from it.

The other part of it is Erwin's supposed goal for the name change. He admits that Christians and non-Christians alike likely won't find the site by searching for a Christian place to "be" on the web. He admits that Christians here are leaving in droves. So if we're losing Christians, and new Christians can't find the site, how is he meeting his goal?

So some, not all, but some, non-Christians come here to debate. So the hell what? So they debate, maybe we can show them with our actions what it means to be a Christian by debating in a loving way instead of with antagonism, maybe we can debate them and plant a seed in their minds. How is debating with non-Christians who aren't necessarily seeking a bad thing? If we're supposedly not trying to separate ourselves from "the world" then these are the people we should be trying to reach more than our friends and neighbors and colleagues who we can talk to in real life whenever we want.

Calling it a social network, removing Christ's name, and his stated purpose, don't mesh to me.

 

[ravendta]

I've noticed a LOT of people, including Christians, saying things like, "I don't see why a name change is such a big deal." I posted this way earlier in the thread, and I figured I'd repost it for those that have just joined.

The basis of my problem is this: This is/WAS a Christian forum, and when I had questions about my walk with God, felt lonely in a world that shuns Him, or just wanted to babble about video games with like-minded people (admittedly, the gamer forum is where I spent most my time here), I knew I could come here and not have to deal with the language, vulgarity, rudeness, or heartlessness of the many secular sites out there (have any of you ever been to the Xbox.com forums? I've never met so many immature rude children in my life!).

So I guess what I'm afraid of, aside from the glaring problem of taking Christ out of a board that claims to be based on Christian beliefs, is that this forum is headed in that direction. I come here to escape the mindless drivel of the myspace generation where everything is about who slept with who and how drunk everyone got last weekend and yadda yadda yadda. And with the exclusion of Christ to attract more non-believers (and that's what it's for, as admitted by Erwin, to make the website seem "less threatening" to others) I fear that those of us who still actually follow Christ's teachings will be trampled on by the outsiders who don't know what CF has been for all these years and thus have no respect or care for what we believe in.

I came here looking for a healthy place to hang out. At the time, I was looking for some kind of spiritual guidance, and I've made a lot of friends here, including a girl who I hope will one day be my wife. I figured the best place to find what I was looking for was a Christian community, and that's why I came here. I'm sure there are plenty of others who came for the same reason - the friends I've met here can testify to that - and having a community of Christians to support us was a miracle from God. Now, we risk losing that community as the myspace generation is welcomed with open arms. I'm not saying outsiders shouldn't be welcome, but I AM saying that they should be welcomed into a CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY Christian environment and be expected to respect that because that's what this particular forum is for. If they wanted myspace vulgarity and crude humor, pictures, and language, then they should've stayed there. But Christ didn't change his message to attract more people to his teachings, and neither should CF change itself to attract more people.
-----

That was my earlier post. And judging from the fact that even the non-believers here are upset because they've basically been labeled not only as trouble makers but as the "wrong kind of non-Christian for the site," I'd say there are few here who REALLY support the decision. I know there are several Christians who are content to just sit back and let it all happen, but to let the name of God be dismissed in favor of public approval is shameful and unacceptable. GOD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS!

 

[Garnet2727]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity than evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

 

[ravendta]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity to evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

We may be believers, but we aren't perfect.

Tactics like this are disgusting, I'll agree, but that doesn't mean that Christianity as a whole is somehow a sham. Too many people view Christianity as whatever someone who calls themselves a Christian claims it to be. The problem is that there are many false teachers out there.

Just because there are a few bad eggs in Christianity doesn't mean that God should be discounted. I'm sure there are plenty of bad eggs in EVERY belief system.

 

[D'Ann]

And many of us Christians as well. Alarming.

Well, I believe that most Christians are honorable and honest or they try to be and deceiving non-Christians who are friends and family just seems wrong...

We cannot commit a sin of deception and then expect people to see Christ in us or the Truth.

Our testimony is more in how we live and treat others than what we preach. Anyone can preach words of love and forgiveness, but if they lack showing love and forgiveness to others... what good is their words or testimony?

And yes, we all are human and we all struggle in many different ways, but to intentionally deceive someone we love and cherish by not being open and honest about a site's motives is just wrong.

The word Christian means, to be Christlike.

I know many seekers who do come to this site to ask questions and learn about Christianity and who do not come here to argue and debate or pull the lambs away from Christ. The way they found this site was by google and it's old name: Christian Forums.

Sincere seekers will no longer be able to find this site and this is really sad.

But at the same time, if this site really is pushing towards being more secular and is really moving away from Christianity, then the name change is appropriate and a blessing. Perhaps the sincere seekers will then find a strong Christian board instead of a "networking" social site.

 

[CaDan]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity than evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

I don't even think it works particularly well.

 

[Esquire]

Look at Site Supporter contributions 3 months from now and you will find it becomes crystal clear.

It doesn't seem that the owner is much interested in the numbers. He has already affirmed that in the explanatory thread he created.

 

[Nadiine]

(ERWIN)

Then I was PMed the link to the above poll. I know that only 94 members voted in that poll. But that poll and the discussion within it got me thinking about this issue further. After further consideration, I came to believe that having a more generic domain name without an overt "Christian" label would make the site more attractive to non-Christians. So I went around looking for a suitable replacement domain name for the site, and thought I found a good one in foru.ms.

This is why I have little to no problem that "Christian Forums" name is changed.

I"m not bothered by that, I'm bothered by the drastic format changes that harm the integrity of the Christian body /members within it.
Causing chaos.

The name change could work out to be a real inventive idea to get more nonchristians visiting - but if you want to bring them in TO BE WITNESSED TO, YOU'VE CORRUPTED THE CHRISTIAN BASE BRINGING THEM THE MESSAGE by watering it down to generic Xtianity - anything goes.

Keep the name! Change your format to define CHRISTIAN properly, then bringing in nonchristians will be a fantastic thing.
Otherwise, you're going to have worse infighting in the Faith section (depending on who stays of course).

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity than evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

Most of the Christians here find all of this just as distasteful as you do.

 

[D'Ann]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity than evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

I completely agree. As Christians, we need to show our faith, hope and love by how we live and treat others.

Although, as human beings, (especially me) sometimes we do fall short of the glory of God and we really mess up big time and then hopefully we find our way back to doing things right.

I won't have anything to do with this kind of tactic. It's just not honest.

 

[tkoman]

Well, I believe that most Christians are honorable and honest or they try to be and deceiving non-Christians who are friends and family just seems wrong...

We cannot commit a sin of deception and then expect people to see Christ in us or the Truth.

Our testimony is more in how we live and treat others than what we preach. Anyone can preach words of love and forgiveness, but if they lack showing love and forgiveness to others... what good is their words or testimony?

And yes, we all are human and we all struggle in many different ways, but to intentionally deceive someone we love and cherish by not being open and honest about a site's motives is just wrong.

The word Christian means, to be Christlike.

I know many seekers who do come to this site to ask questions and learn about Christianity and who do not come here to argue and debate or pull the lambs away from Christ. The way they found this site was by google and it's old name: Christian Forums.

Sincere seekers will no longer be able to find this site and this is really sad.

But at the same time, if this site really is pushing towards being more secular and is really moving away from Christianity, then the name change is appropriate and a blessing. Perhaps the sincere seekers will then find a strong Christian board instead of a "networking" social site.

I never say this out of context, but:

 

[Esquire]

I do not intend this statement as debate. I do, however, want the Christians to try to understand my viewpoint just a little bit. There are few things that demonstrate to me a certain moral bankruptcy of Christianity than evangelization by stealth. If God exists and is all powerful, all loving and all knowledgeable, then why do believers resort to tactics like this?

To me, it is a rather powerful argument for atheism rather than for Christianity.

Here everyone seems to freely and quickly post their opinions. Not everyone is gifted with a great command of language. To summarize all the posters comments into one sweeping generalization is really unfair to the Christians who are posting.. Perhaps what you perceive the posts to mean is only what you choose to remember.