Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)

[Glass*Soul]

I totally agree - but the non-Christian members of overtly and obviously Christian sites tend to be a a group who actively seek to sign up to Christian sites with the main objective which is to debate and argue with Christians. Obviously not all of them are like this, but a lot of them would be - why else would a non-Christian join a Christian site.

However, if the site is not obviously Christian, and non-Christians are invited to join the site by Christian friends, then these non-Christians are more likely to be interested in fellowship and "social networking" rather than debating Christians. In time, it is hoped that we would have more non-Christians like these, and the Christian members can share the good news with such people. I hope that makes sense.

That's the problem. You have all the wrong sorts of non-Christians here! You need better quality non-Christains!!

I'm so tired of the dehumanizing insults here. I've had it. This place is like a wearying weight!

 

[CoachR64]

CaDan, because it is more than words in a search engine to me. It is more that words on paper or a name on a door. It is the name my Father gave me when He chose to save me.

It means I am a passionate follower of Christ. For me, this is a title given by my Father and I am not going to sit by and let people take it away. Again, I joined this site because it is a Christian forum. I have a myspace page already, so I don't need a social networking forum.

I personally believe that much of our church culture today is weak and watered down. People are being told to stand down and be doormats for the sake of humility. People think it's ok to give up our name simply to appease non-believers. Christians are refusing to stand for what is right. There is a "live and let live" mentality that is sweeping the nation. It is time Christians take a stand. And this goes way beyond this site.

In the long run, is the name change of this site really that significant? NO. It is merely another example of the cowardly, spineless actions of many men in our churches today.

Coach

 

[CaDan]

Aside from the name would you agree this board is in need of a common christian creed defining Christians from cults and false doctrine?

That is not the question I am exploring. I am exploring the reaction to the name change.

But, to answer your question, no.

 

[Esquire]

Preaching the gospel isn't selling Amway.

The Amway pyramid was much more organized than this transition. From what I can gather the entire transition was ill advised, poorly planned and made no good business sense. Amway did better than that for a little while at least.

The more I read the more clear this picture becomes. I have sense of poor adviser's in this matter and a man too busy to think it through before implementation. It is OK to throw things against the fan once in a while as long as you put on a plastic suit first.

The bottom line still is the owner does what the owner wants to do. My only recommendation so far is fire all your adviser's and really start fresh. The owners original post regarding this issue states he consulted no one. Perhaps he should have.

It is never to late to fix a mess like this but it will take a little time. Get some better adviser's and your profile said you are a doctor and lawyer. Lots of responsibility there. Hand this one over to someone else and watch it straighten out quickly. You are just to busy to do it justice.

I can't believe how much there is to read and this is only about one month in process. Interesting stuff. I think I will be back. I found this most interesting.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I totally agree - but the non-Christian members of overtly and obviously Christian sites tend to be a a group who actively seek to sign up to Christian sites with the main objective which is to debate and argue with Christians. Obviously not all of them are like this, but a lot of them would be - why else would a non-Christian join a Christian site.

However, if the site is not obviously Christian, and non-Christians are invited to join the site by Christian friends, then these non-Christians are more likely to be interested in fellowship and "social networking" rather than debating Christians. In time, it is hoped that we would have more non-Christians like these, and the Christian members can share the good news with such people. I hope that makes sense.

How dare you.

You shoved us into debate areas and locked us out of the rest for years and now you criticize us for arguing and debating.

How dare you.

How dare you.

No wonder we're called wolves and swine and fools, pedophiles, demons and Satan.

But then we're not the right sorts of non-Christians. Not the type you want here now.

 

[CaDan]

CaDan, because it is more than words in a search engine to me. It is more that words on paper or a name on a door. It is the name my Father gave me when He chose to save me.

It means I am a passionate follower of Christ. For me, this is a title given by my Father and I am not going to sit by and let people take it away. Again, I joined this site because it is a Christian forum. I have a myspace page already, so I don't need a social networking forum.

I personally believe that much of our church culture today is weak and watered down. People are being told to stand down and be doormats for the sake of humility. People think it's ok to give up our name simply to appease non-believers. Christians are refusing to stand for what is right. There is a "live and let live" mentality that is sweeping the nation. It is time Christians take a stand. And this goes way beyond this site.

In the long run, is the name change of this site really that significant? NO. It is merely another example of the cowardly, spineless actions of many men in our churches today.

Coach

Thank you for taking the time to answer. What I don't understand is why you view this as a personal assault. That is, no one is taking away your ability to claim to be christian, only changing the name of a website. I can understand--even if I do not agree with--anger about the site governance changes of 7/7/7, but I don't understand the anger about the change of the site name.

 

[Esquire]

How dare you.

You shoved us into debate areas and locked us out of the rest for years and now you criticize us for arguing and debating.

How dare you.

How dare you.

No wonder we're called wolves and swine and fools, pedophiles, demons and Satan.

But then we're not the right sorts of non-Christians. Not the type you want here now.

The plot thickens.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Aside from the name would you agree this board is in need of a common christian creed defining Christians from cults and false doctrine?

I am more concerned with false believers who work their way into the forum and Christ have warned us of those wolves who come into our "Forums" pretending to be one of us.

 

[JimfromOhio]

How dare you.

You shoved us into debate areas and locked us out of the rest for years and now you criticize us for arguing and debating.

How dare you.

How dare you.

No wonder we're called wolves and swine and fools, pedophiles, demons and Satan.

But then we're not the right sorts of non-Christians. Not the type you want here now.

Dare to love

 

[Garnet2727]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

 

[JimfromOhio]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

Wow.. that's a different perspective.

 

[infaile]

It's just the packaging. But without the packaging, you don't know what's inside the tin.

I agree with this.

In addition, CaDan, I would tentatively propose that most members aren't JUST upset about the name change - but it was the last straw (after the 777 changes). It added fuel to the fire, and now what USED to be an angry response to the name change is now a free-for-all hating ground for ALL the changes, including the policy ones.

Make sense?

 

[stumpjumper]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

How dare you.

You shoved us into debate areas and locked us out of the rest for years and now you criticize us for arguing and debating.

How dare you.

How dare you.

No wonder we're called wolves and swine and fools, pedophiles, demons and Satan.

But then we're not the right sorts of non-Christians. Not the type you want here now.

I think these are very valid perspectives.

There's something to be said for truth in advertising. Formerly, it was very clear what the message and overall mission of Christian Forums was both in name and in layout.

Now it looks like it is set up to an ambush on non-Christians more than anything else.

That's likely not Erwin's intention but it seems to be a result of the most recent change...

 

[tkoman]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

I think what bothers me the most is that this may have hit the nail on the head. The "vision" isn't really hammered out yet (LOL - nothing really is), but this seems disingenuous. I guess time may tell. Hopefully.

 

[Nadiine]

I am more concerned with false believers who work their way into the forum and Christ have warned us of those wolves who come into our "Forums" pretending to be one of us.

Jim, that's already BEEN the status quo here.
That's why I sent quite a few comments & complaints a few months after I first joined bcuz it was obvious that Christianity was being 'hijacked' from at least 1 group that I kept running into (or who ran into me??)

I kept asking that CF PLEASE include that a member also must accept that the Bible is God's inspired word.
That wouldn't stop every issue, but it sure would give us a level playing field & foundation to debate from!

Yes, it needs a Creed or agreement upon Christian members - even GOD decided that we NEEDED a Bible - something concrete that would at least offer a semblance of Unity and authority as to His requirements & teachings; we may have disagreements to some of the minor principles & teachings, but not the ones that salvation hinges on - we do in agreement on central doctrine.

I'm clueless as to why Erwin has gone this drastic route when he just didn't have to.

 

[Esquire]

As far as I'm concerned, CF has now become a pig in a poke. A place packaged to lure non-Christians in to be witness-fodder.

There was a certain integrity about the old Christian Forums. A non-believer coming in here knew what it was.

But now? It's one great big love bomb packaged as a social site.

Are both sides [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off now? This gets more interesting by the minute. When I was in college I had an elderly professor. I don't know how old he really was but he appeared elderly. He taught us to remember that no matter what strife we are facing we should repeat these words to our self in the midst of it. "This too will pass." In time all things change. No one can be one hundred percent pleased but this place needs an immediate triage to help it move along. I wouldn't wait too long Mr Loh this needs to be done soon.

 

[CaDan]

I agree with this.

In addition, CaDan, I would tentatively propose that most members aren't JUST upset about the name change - but it was the last straw (after the 777 changes). It added fuel to the fire, and now what USED to be an angry response to the name change is now a free-for-all hating ground for ALL the changes, including the policy ones.

Make sense?

I think it does make some sense as an ex post facto explanation.

 

[psalms 91]

Thank you for taking the time to answer. What I don't understand is why you view this as a personal assault. That is, no one is taking away your ability to claim to be christian, only changing the name of a website. I can understand--even if I do not agree with--anger about the site governance changes of 7/7/7, but I don't understand the anger about the change of the site name.

Look at Site Supporter contributions 3 months from now and you will find it becomes crystal clear.

 

[CoachR64]

CaDan,

I don't necessarily have a huge problem with the 777 changes. Just like the church doors, I believe the site should be open for all. I just don't think we need to change the name to do so.

From Erwin's FAQ, the name change is basicly done to trick non-Christians into becoming active on this site so we can then bombard them with Christian thinking. Sorry, but that is a huge turn off for non-Christians.

The title of "Christian" is huge to me. It is a title I was given by Christ, and I get offended when I see people wanting to wipe it away. Things such as Xmas or Xtian. And when we do this to appease non-believers, it is beyond wrong.

Coach

 

[infaile]

Also, I think perhaps some people are responding badly to the term "social networking". In this day and age, "social networking" brings to mind MySpace, YouTube, etc. - none of which are identifiably (or even claim to be) Christian. They're quite happily secular, for the most part. People may be seeing the "social networking" tag as a shift towards a more secular website, even without all the policy changes.

Essentially, IF one compares CF to a church (I'm not saying anyone has to, but it's a comparison I wish to use), as I -think- Erwin once did (when talking about opening up the Christian-only parts of the site to non-believers, he said something like: in a real life church, anyone can walk in, even if they're not a Christian, and so CF should be the same way - not precise wording, but if anyone knows where he said that, a link would be great ) - then yes. Non-believers can walk into a church in real life, and debate with people, or find help, or seek advice. That is true.

But the church in question does not pretend that it's no longer a church. It doesn't remove the cross, it doesn't change its name, and it still lists itself as a church in phone books and business directories.

When a church gives up the 'Christ' part of its name (if it had one to begin with), it becomes
a great deal less identifiable, a great deal less obviously Christian. That's not to say that its policies inside have changed, also - but then, CF's policies HAVE changed. So there is a shift from 'we are like an online church' to 'we're just some nice people living down the cyberhighway from you'.