Are Moslems more Tolerant than Christians?

Cooch

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The problem is the Bible says a lot of other things too, and people, being people, latch onto what they want.

While that is true....

If they are not following the teachings of Christ, it is not true to say that they are Christians.

To say that they are, is either a lie or a delusion.
 
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OttovonBismarck

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For your information I have read the Qu'ran! I also know about Abrogation!

BTW Christians are under grace,not the law of the OT,as most everyone who knows scripture this century is aware of! :doh: :p ^_^ :tutu:

*chuckles* The Qur'ān(if you're gonna try to be technical in order to make people think you know more than you actually do, at least do it right) via Robert Spencer?
 
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soblessed53

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*chuckles* The Qur'ān(if you're gonna try to be technical in order to make people think you know more than you actually do, at least do it right) via Robert Spencer?

Robert Spencer?

More like-The Qur'an (Oxford World's Classics) (Paperback)
by M. A. S. Abdel Haleem
http://www.amazon.com/Quran-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0192831933/ref=sr_1_1/002-1047005-4307266?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180855032&sr=1-1


What the Koran Really Says: Language, Text, and Commentary (Hardcover)
by Ibn Warraq

http://www.amazon.com/What-Koran-Really-Says-Commentary/dp/157392945X/ref=sr_1_1/002-1047005-4307266?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180854830&sr=1-1
 
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tuke

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The Koran is blowin'm'mind. I am only a third thru it, but convinced that it is the spirit of antiChrist as defined by Daniel, Jesus, John and Paul. Mahomet says repeatedly and emphatically that Jesus is not God's Son, that Jesus is a messianic prophet of Islam, yes, but only with the implication (sometimes explicit) that He is subordinate to Mahomet. The Koran/Mahomet says that Muslims are monotheists, but more than that they are unitarians; this means they don't accept the divinity of the Holy Spirit nor of Jesus. This may explain why Imams (the modern dervishes) compel Muslims to physically defend and justify Allah, a former moon-god whom Mahomet converted in the Kabba.
Cf. Zechariah IV.6 in the Bible
 
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soblessed53

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originally posted by tuke The Koran is blowin'm'mind. I am only a third thru it, but convinced that it is the spirit of antiChrist as defined by Daniel, Jesus, John and Paul. Mahomet says repeatedly and emphatically that Jesus is not God's Son, that Jesus is a messianic prophet of Islam, yes, but only with the implication (sometimes explicit) that He is subordinate to Mahomet. The Koran/Mahomet says that Muslims are monotheists, but more than that they are unitarians; this means they don't accept the divinity of the Holy Spirit nor of Jesus.

:thumbsup: Exactly!^_^ ^_^ :p :tutu:
 
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OttovonBismarck

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The Koran is blowin'm'mind. I am only a third thru it, but convinced that it is the spirit of antiChrist as defined by Daniel, Jesus, John and Paul. Mahomet says repeatedly and emphatically that Jesus is not God's Son, that Jesus is a messianic prophet of Islam, yes, but only with the implication (sometimes explicit) that He is subordinate to Mahomet. The Koran/Mahomet says that Muslims are monotheists, but more than that they are unitarians; this means they don't accept the divinity of the Holy Spirit nor of Jesus. This may explain why Imams (the modern dervishes) compel Muslims to physically defend and justify Allah, a former moon-god whom Mahomet converted in the Kabba.
Cf. Zechariah IV.6 in the Bible

You do realize the Allah = Moon God idiocy was started by some semi-retarded buddy of the intellectually challenged Jack Chick, right? And that it's pretty much not accepted by any mainstream, non-popular level, scholars; be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or atheist.
 
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tuke

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You do realize the Allah = Moon God idiocy was started by some semi-retarded buddy of the intellectually challenged Jack Chick, right? And that it's pretty much not accepted by any mainstream, non-popular level, scholars; be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or atheist.
No, sorry, I got that fact from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Allah, Ahura Mazda, and others from the Middle Eastern pantheon have been documented centuries before Mohammad was born.
 
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OttovonBismarck

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No, sorry, I got that fact from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Allah, Ahura Mazda, and others from the Middle Eastern pantheon have been documented centuries before Mohammad was born.

What? Encyclopedia Britannica says nothing about Allah being a moon god. And there's no connection between Ahura Mazda(a Persian God, a Persian word, with Persian language and culture being Indo-European) to Allah(a Semitic God, a Semitic word, with the same linguistic roots as the Hebrew, also semitic, word Elohim, and originating in a Semitic culture.) You cannot find one respectable scholar who will connect Allah to a moon god. The fact of the matter is, rather you consider it divinely inspired or not, the God of the Qur’ān is the same God as the Bible. To deny this is to deny historical, cultural, and linguistic facts.
 
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tuke

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What? Encyclopedia Britannica says nothing about Allah being a moon god. And there's no connection between Ahura Mazda(a Persian God, a Persian word, with Persian language and culture being Indo-European) to Allah(a Semitic God, a Semitic word, with the same linguistic roots as the Hebrew, also semitic, word Elohim, and originating in a Semitic culture.) You cannot find one respectable scholar who will connect Allah to a moon god. The fact of the matter is, rather you consider it divinely inspired or not, the God of the Qur’ān is the same God as the Bible. To deny this is to deny historical, cultural, and linguistic facts.
Yeah, I'll deny it. Mohammad said Allah doesn't have a Son and Jesus said God does. How can they possibly be the same?
As far as respectable scholars go there are hundreds of evangelical professors and researchers who have documented the masque of Allah. As for popular teachers you may recognize John Hagee, Jerry Vines, Pat Robertson, Robert Spencer, Hal Lindsey, et al. The Encyclopedia briefly alludes to the transformation of Allah in the Macropedia topic "Islamic World" especially the section headed "The Origen of Islam."

Have you read the Koran itself or just apologists? Mohammad uses the Bible almost exclusively for his inspiration; however, the Bible makes no mention of Islam. Even more specious for a supposed semitic religion is the fact that there is no mention of Islam during the 2.5 millenia from Ishmael's birth to Muhammad's. Muhammad used Ishmael to legitimize his new religion.
Facts are never going to prove the truth of God. Do you believe Muhammad is righteous or Jesus? One of them is a lying pedophile whose many wives included a nine year old girl, the other said you can't enter heaven without the innocence of a child.
 
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OttovonBismarck

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Yeah, I'll deny it. Mohammad said Allah doesn't have a Son and Jesus said God does. How can they possibly be the same?
As far as respectable scholars go there are hundreds of evangelical professors and researchers who have documented the masque of Allah. As for popular teachers you may recognize John Hagee, Jerry Vines, Pat Robertson, Robert Spencer, Hal Lindsey, et al.

Have you read the Koran itself or just apologists? Mohammad uses the Bible almost exclusively for his inspiration; however, the Bible makes no mention of Islam. Even more specious for a supposed semitic religion is the fact that there is no mention of Islam during the 2.5 millenia from Ishmael's birth to Muhammad's. Muhammad used Ishmael to legitimize his new religion.
Facts are never going to prove the truth of God. Do you believe Allah is righteous or Jesus? One of them is a liar.

...you've basically just repeated yourself in different words. You still have not provided solid proof that there is not a legitimate connection between Yahweh and Allah. All you do is vaguely cite popular level writers and mentioned supposed evangelists whose research methods are at best biased. As I've said before, serious writers, ones without agendas, would never consider Allah a separate entity from Yahweh. Just different cultural interpretations of basically the same idea.

Your logic is also somewhat screwy. So, because all semitic people other than Hebrews, and their "cousins"(samaritans, for example), developed pagan pantheons, and then later adopted a religion centered around the Hebrew God, but with some Arabic influences, their faith is absolutely less legitimate? Right. So, since Paul took the teachings of Jesus, injected it with Greek thought, and then gave it to the pagans of the Roman Empire, who then injected pagan archetypes and philosophies into his teachings, it must mean that Christianity is a false religion centered around an evolved form of some suffering-God archetype or what have you. Am I right? Does that logic make sense? Not really. But it's exactly what you, and many others, do. It isn't based in reality or facts. It's just based on people with absurd biases who have to justify their own faith by disproving the faith of others.
 
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tuke

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...you've basically just repeated yourself in different words. You still have not provided solid proof that there is not a legitimate connection between Yahweh and Allah. All you do is vaguely cite popular level writers and mentioned supposed evangelists whose research methods are at best biased. As I've said before, serious writers, ones without agendas, would never consider Allah a separate entity from Yahweh. Just different cultural interpretations of basically the same idea.

Your logic is also somewhat screwy. So, because all semitic people other than Hebrews, and their "cousins"(samaritans, for example), developed pagan pantheons, and then later adopted a religion centered around the Hebrew God, but with some Arabic influences, their faith is absolutely less legitimate? Right. So, since Paul took the teachings of Jesus, injected it with Greek thought, and then gave it to the pagans of the Roman Empire, who then injected pagan archetypes and philosophies into his teachings, it must mean that Christianity is a false religion centered around an evolved form of some suffering-God archetype or what have you. Am I right? Does that logic make sense? Not really. But it's exactly what you, and many others, do. It isn't based in reality or facts. It's just based on people with absurd biases who have to justify their own faith by disproving the faith of others.
Ok, your profile states that you are a Lutheran. May I safely conclude that you are not a born again Lutheran?

As far as my training goes (which you slandered like a juvenile rather than a 20 year old) I am a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Oregon. May I enquire as to your educational attainments?

Either God had a Son or he didn't. There is no proof for that choice only faith.
 
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OttovonBismarck

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Ok, your profile states that you are a Lutheran. May I safely conclude that you are not a born again Lutheran?

As far as my training goes (which you slandered like a juvenile rather than a 20 year old) I am a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Oregon. May I enquire as to your educational attainments?

Either God had a Son or he didn't. There is no proof for that choice only faith.

The fact that I'm born again or not doesn't hold any relevance to this discussion. I'm just pointing out facts.

When did I ever slander your so called training? I only attacked methods, not "training". You can inquire, but I won't go into details because, well, it just isn't relevant.

But why do you have to destroy another religion using distorted facts? You believe what you believe, they believe what they believe. Going by a very narrow worldview of "I'm right, your wrong, I go to heaven you go to hell" you'll be proven right in the end; if you are right. So why does your faith have to be justified by making another faith seem less legitimate? And this begs the question: Why do you not attack Judaism? Jews don't think God had a son. Yet I never see you, or any of the other anti-Muslims, attacking Jews. Why is it that Muslims are being singled out by narrow-mindedness and bad scholarship?
 
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tuke

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....
Jews don't think God had a son. Yet I never see you, or any of the other anti-Muslims, attacking Jews. Why is it that Muslims are being singled out by narrow-mindedness and bad scholarship?
Messianic Jews do, especially Rabbi Jesus and His disciples who were all Jews you will recall.
I apologize if I come across as antiMuslim. I am antiAllah because he wants to lead sinners to Hell.
Narrow mindedness and bad scholarship as it pertains to this thread are people who would rather cut off your head than consider your liberty of conscience.
Cf. John XVI.2
 
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tuke

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The fact that I'm born again or not doesn't hold any relevance to this discussion.
You can inquire, but I won't go into details because, well, it just isn't relevant....
Your faith certainly is relevant to your viewpoint.
Your education is also relevant. You appear to dislike Encyclopedias, evangelical college professors ... and dictionaries. Enquire is just as valid a spelling as inquire.

You must be born again without which you can accomplish nothing. John chapters III and XV
 
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OttovonBismarck

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Your faith certainly is relevant to your viewpoint.
Your education is also relevant. You appear to dislike Encyclopedias, evangelical college professors ... and dictionaries. Enquire is just as valid a spelling as inquire.

You must be born again without which you can accomplish nothing. John chapters III and XV

No. It does not matter in this discussion. I'm not arguing for or against either religion on spiritual terms. I'm simply stating the "allah is a moon god" argument is stupid and lacking in factual support. And yes, when talking about the merits of other religions I will dismiss evangelical college professors simply because they're biased. Now, if they were of an "evangelical" background, and yet, say, history professors who provide good sources for their conclusions and all the other good stuff that normally goes along scholarly material, then yes, I'd listen to what they have to say. Also, the EB doesn't say anything about Allah being a moon god.

And, fine, I'll give you enquire. I was just trying to be intentionally asinine anyways.
 
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tuke

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The first problem with this thread is that 'tolerance' is not a concept with a universal value. It can vary greatly depending on context.

If you look at history, Muslims can make a strong argument that they have shown more tolerance than Christians, especially toward conquered peoples. The problem is, what would be considered 'tolerant' during the time of Mohammed or during the middle ages is very different from how you would define that concept in the 21st century, at least in the Western world....
Cutting off heads rather than considering people's liberty of conscience was universally contemned by Muhammad's contemporaries as it is today. In Tours, France (AD 732) Charles Martel ...
 
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tuke

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.... And yes, when talking about the merits of other religions I will dismiss evangelical college professors simply because they're biased. Now, if they were of an "evangelical" background, and yet, say, history professors who provide good sources for their conclusions and all the other good stuff that normally goes along scholarly material, then yes, I'd listen to what they have to say.
And you're not biased?!
Also, the EB doesn't say anything about Allah being a moon god.
Sorry, I didn't realize Allah=moon god was such an issue for you. I should have been more careful in attributions made to the EB rather than evangelical professors/teachers....
You seem more intent on finding the speck in my eye than the beam in yours... Did God have a Son or not? Jesus was either a liar, lunatic or God's Son. If He did have a Son, then your Muhammad "facts" are lies.
 
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OttovonBismarck

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You seem more intent on finding the speck in my eye than the beam in yours... Did God have a Son or not? Jesus was either a liar, lunatic or God's Son. If He did have a Son, then your Muhammad "facts" are lies.

This is absurd. You just keep making stupid statements without providing any evidence for your opinions.
 
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tuke

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This is absurd. You just keep making stupid statements without providing any evidence for your opinions.
I don't understand. You want me to provide evidence that Jesus was right and Muhammad wrong? I tried my best to explain there is no such evidence only faith.

P.S. You asked me earlier how you slandered me. The words "stupid" and "screwy" are slanderous calumny, contumacious ad hominem.
 
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