At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[dignitized]

It is a popular Methodist saying that a church isn't a building: it is the people who make it up.

Even so - this is neither. This place does not even really exists as a place.

Just because it is a message board doesn't mean it must degenerate into a social club rather than a place for Christians to interact with other Christians.

It is and remains a place where people can interact with other Christians - it is also a place where Christians interact with non-Christians as well. After all, Christ called us to GO into the world and tell them of His love. He did not call us to build enclaves.

 

[Timothy]

You're suggesting fellowship devoid of equality?

I'm saying that general human equality is different to shared interest (trumpets) or shared faith (Christianity) and that on those levels we are not better or worse, we're just DIFFERENT.

 

[Faith In God]

But it wouldn't be fellowship, would it? Fellowship suggests that we're the same, and as was just pointed out, atheists are not to be treated the same as Christians.

A sax player can't fellowship with trumpet players in the General Forum at TH. Unless he's a trumpet player, is learning, is looking into it, blah blah blah.
In that way, he is not "equal."

What is so hard about this? The Sax Player simply doesn't have much to say on a trumpet player's forum (unless he's looking into it blah blah blah).
He can fellowship all he wants in the Lounge, though. That's not a big area, however.

A Sax Player on a Trumpet Forum is not equal to a trumpet player, as far as his participation is concerned.
*singsong*I still don't see the problem...

 

[MartinM]

I have been for some time.

No, you just keep restating your position.

 

[intricatic]

Sorry for coming back to this comment, but CF is always going to have secular governance.

Erwin is not a priest, and the board is owned by his secular corporation.

He may be trying to foster a Christian Community, but that doesn't make this a church.

I'm not saying it's a Church, I'm saying it's ... a ....

Ministry.

Would you people please stop misconstruing what I'm saying to fit your agendas? It's really irritating.

 

[Faith In God]

Even so - this is neither. This place does not even really exists as a place.
It is and remains a place where people can interact with other Christians - it is also a place where Christians interact with non-Christians as well. After all, Christ called us to GO into the world and tell them of His love. He did not call us to build enclaves.

The Christians still made churches and gathered together.

If that is your argument, ie, "Go out and preach," then GO to a secular site!!! We don't have to change this one to reach out! Come ON, people!

 

[Debi1967]

subscribing

 

[Faith In God]

No, you just keep restating your position.

A sax player can't fellowship with trumpet players in the General Forum at TH. Unless he's a trumpet player, is learning, is looking into it, blah blah blah.
In that way, he is not "equal."

What is so hard about this? The Sax Player simply doesn't have much to say on a trumpet player's forum (unless he's looking into it blah blah blah).
He can fellowship all he wants in the Lounge, though. That's not a big area, however.

A Sax Player on a Trumpet Forum is not equal to a trumpet player, as far as his participation is concerned.
*singsong*I still don't see the problem...

*points*

 

[Epiphanygirl]

You don't have to like this but as long as you can't refute it, (and you can't because it's a simple fact), you just have to accept that when you claim things for yourself that you won't allow others to have, you're painting yourself as being more worthy and entitled. You're certainly selecting yourself as being superior.

If that's what the Christian God is all about then the whole of mankind will fare far better if they distance themselves from him as much as possible. That kind of behavior and thinking has never lead to anything but cruelty and suffering.

As anyone who has a belief in anything, any other god.....they must be superior too, right? For they think their god is above all others, their belief are right, others wrong, no? Shall we ask the muslims to chime in here?
What I highlighted is exactly why I want this site protected as a Christian site......
Dude, I believe that Christ is my savior, I can't help that you can't grasp that, I can pray for you though.....everyone is allowed to have what I have..........it starts with accepting the fact that yes, there is a God !!!!!!

 

[Debi1967]

I'm saying that general human equality is different to shared interest (trumpets) or shared faith (Christianity) and that on those levels we are not better or worse, we're just DIFFERENT.

Tim are we interested in polemics or apologia .... think about this before you answer Beastt again..... which is he engaging in?

 

[Beastt]

To stir the pot?

This isn't quite so simple as selecting an instrument to play. I don't see trumpet players pushing their preferences into legislation the way Christians have been. This is about world views and beyond. This is about how should ultimately be in charge of the world and unfortunately, Christians believe they should be simply on the basis of an old book. There are dozens of old books, each with similar claims as to their origins and content. And nothing about your book is any better or any different than many of the others. But still, you proclaim that your book is "the Book" despite being unable to produce anything which would demonstrate that to be the case.

And on that basis you continue to believe that you're better than everyone else, more entitled to tell everyone else how to live, who they can marry, what research they can pursue, what words they can and can't say and whether or not they should even have a voice on a simple on-line forum. Then you compound the problem by trying to say that you're not suggesting that you see yourself as superior.

 

[Spherical Time]

I'm not saying it's a Church, I'm saying it's ... a ....

Ministry.

Would you people please stop misconstruing what I'm saying to fit your agendas? It's really irritating.

That doesn't change my point, which is that this site is run by a secular corporation. It might be geared toward ministry, but it already has secular governance.

 

[JGG]

To stir the pot?

Honestly, my first post on here was on a thread entitled (generally) "why are atheists so stupid?"

Let's be frank, there are plenty of Christians on here who despise atheists, many who don't trust atheists, many who believe we are automatically immoral, and most who (in absolute reality) are dealing with the cognitive disonance of being taught that they are superior to me, but know they can't actually say so.

I am no less moral for not believing in your God, I am no less honest, and I don't love my family less. But I also know that most people in my real life would turn on my in an instant if they knew I was an atheist. In fact, outside of this board, there is only a single Christian who knows I'm atheist. So, I fight my battle for understanding on here, one little bit at a time.

For the most part, that's why we're here.

 

[dignitized]

I'm not saying it's a Church, I'm saying it's ... a ....

Ministry.

Would you people please stop misconstruing what I'm saying to fit your agendas? It's really irritating.

CF is a place where ministry can take place, but it is not a ministry. AND lets not forget that the KEY to ministry is evangelization.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I voted Option 2 because I believe in the statement, "if it is not broke do not fix it".

If another type forum was wanted, then a second one should be started.

There are a lot of regular folks here because this is what THEY are looking for.

 

[dignitized]

The Christians still made churches and gathered together.

If that is your argument, ie, "Go out and preach," then GO to a secular site!!! We don't have to change this one to reach out! Come ON, people!

They formed Churches for two reasons - to gather and share the Eucharist and to bring people IN. Lets stop trying to force people out and work harder at bringing people in.

 

[MartinM]

I'm saying that general human equality is different to shared interest (trumpets) or shared faith (Christianity) and that on those levels we are not better or worse, we're just DIFFERENT.

That's a fair statement. The problem is, it's very easy to say, and rather harder to live up to. Throughout this thread, many Christians have said that it's important to have non-Christians as part of the community so that we can be ministered to. Fair enough. But how many have said that it's important to have us around because you enjoy our company? Because you consider some of us friends? Because the discussions you have with us can be both pleasant and useful to all parties concerned? Because, in essence, we're worthwhile human beings?

I'm sure many of you feel that way, but it isn't expressed very clearly or very often, as far as I can see. And when we're told in no uncertain terms that we are merely guests, that we are not members to the extent that you are, and that we shouldn't be allowed to participate beyond the limits you set, it certainly seems as though in your eyes we are targets for conversion first, and human being second.

That many don't seem to see why this is a problem only adds to that perception.

 

[Debi1967]

That doesn't change my point, which is that this site is run by a secular corporation. It might be geared toward ministry, but it already has secular governance.

OK technically the Catholic Church has many secular governances set up in order to be able to keep it financially accountable .... Does that mean that the Church itself is then Secular because it uses outside sources to administrate it's monies and so forth....

 

[sparklecat]

Honestly, my first post on here was on a thread entitled (generally) "why are atheists so stupid?"

Let's be frank, there are plenty of Christians on here who despise atheists, many who don't trust atheists, many who believe we are automatically immoral, and most who (in absolute reality) are dealing with the cognitive disonance of being taught that they are superior to me, but know they can't actually say so.

I am no less moral for not believing in your God, I am no less honest, and I don't love my family less. But I also know that most people in my real life would turn on my in an instant if they knew I was an atheist. In fact, outside of this board, there is only a single Christian who knows I'm atheist. So, I fight my battle for understanding on here, one little bit at a time.

For the most part, that's why we're here.

QFT.

 

[intricatic]

That doesn't change my point, which is that this site is run by a secular corporation. It might be geared toward ministry, but it already has secular governance.

That's not what Erwin has been saying since the beginning.