C&E Thread Archive

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

Since it appears that Mechanical Bliss is no longer participating I thought I’d take up the torch so to speak. If you have any posts that you think should be included in the archive please PM me.

Purpose: This archive endeavors to function as a handy reference to some of the most useful threads on the forum from 2002 to the present, whether you're a regular looking for quick references to past threads or a newbie looking at past discussions.

Criteria: Inclusion of threads is based upon the originality, insightfulness, and construction of the OP and/or an OP that asks a question or makes an argument that is replied to with good answers and refutations from multiple participants.

Origin: The archive originally started based upon making my own bookmarked threads public, personally scouring the entire forum from the beginning, and hoping that others would find this information useful and be willing to contribute so that everyone finds it useful.

Alterations: Now you're probably saying, who is this guy to choose which threads belong in this collection and which ones don't? Since this thread is supposed to serve the C&E community of regular posters, it's really up to all of you. If there are any threads that were excluded, wrongfully included, wrongfully categorized, errors, or improvements, let me know.

The Basics/General/PRATT Items/Miscellaneous

Educational web sites
Ask An Astrophysicist (NASA)
Early Human Phylogeny (Smithsonian)
Human Genome Project (Human Genome Program)
Intelligent Design "CReationism's New Wrapper" (Ardea Skybreak)
Quantum Mechanics (Stanford)
Radiometric Dating (Dr. Roger C. Wiens)
Talk Origins
The Panda's Thumb
Tree of Life web project
Understanding Evolution (Berkeley)

Basics of C&E Discussion Topics
Butchery of the laws of thermodynamics (Valkhorn)
The Double Standards of Creationism (Valkhorn)
Evolution...a Religion? (Valkhorn)
Evolution is both a Fact and a Theory (Vance)
Evolution is NOT atheism (lucaspa)
The Evolution of Creationism (gluadys)
Intelligent Design Is Not Science (Lucretius)
Is Evolution Science? (Ondoher)
Falsification - implications for YEC and Evolution (notto)
Natural Selection is not metaphysics (Pete Harcoff)
The Pillar of Evolution (Valkhorn)
The problem with Creation Science (Vance)
Quantum Mechanics and the Cosmological Argument (Lucretius)
Scientific method (lucaspa)
Statements of Faith and the Bias of creationist groups (Arikay)
The Theory of Evolution (is NOT...) (Pete Harcoff)
There is no theory of Intelligent Design (Pete Harcoff)
What exactly is the Theory of Evolution (GoSeminoles!)
What's the baseline for intelligent design? (Pete Harcoff)
what's the process for "peer-reviewed" work? (GoSeminoles!)
Who can identify a couple of created "kinds"? (Aron-Ra)

Miscellaneous/PRATT Related Info
The Age of the Universe (AnEmpiricalAgnostic)
Anatomy of a PRATT (AnEmpiricalAgnostic)
Are scientists stupid or is there a conspiracy (Arikay)
Argument from incredulity (h2whoa)
Aron's rebuttal of Mark Ramsey: Introduction (Includes Archive of Related Threads) (Aron-Ra)
Challenge to Creationists! (Vance)
The Collected Errors & Lies Of Kent Hovind (Mechanical Bliss)
A comparison of scholarship: typical creationist vs. qualified biologist(s) (mikeynov)
Conflicting Claims (Irish_Guevara)
Court's in Session: Creationist Lies -- Prove it (owen_rocks)
The Creationist/Evolutionist Turing Test (Jet Black)
Creationist FAQ (ashibaka)
Creationist Politicking (Mechanical Bliss)
A critique of BibleLife.org’s article about bird evolution (Aggie)
Dembski admits Intelligent Design is a religious position (Aron-Ra)
Dr. Dino, a look at an article... (Arikay)
Entropy and Closed Systems (Dragar)
Ever the Expert (Jet Black)
Evidence For creationism Take 3 (Arikay)
Evolution, creation science and economic impact (Pete Harcoff)
evolution and gravity: evidence is not interpreted (caravelair)
Faith Presumption and science (Vance)
How many experts, even Christian experts, accept Creation Science? (Vance)
Ica, not Inca stones. (Mistermystery)
If evolutionary theory is "bad science", then why do so many study it? (Late_Cretaceous)
Information theory and you: how random mutations add information to the genome (Chalnoth)
A Look at AIG's Evidence (Arikay)
Photosynthesis, entropy and the second law of thermodynamics (The Seeker)
Probability and Evolution (random_guy)
Quantum Mechanics and the Cosmological Argument (Lucretius)
A stance of arrogance? (h2whoa)
The Second Law Fallacy (chilehed)
Second Law of Thermodynamics (lucaspa)
The Sumerian Flood Narrative (Epic of Gilgamesh Tablet XI) (Vance)
TE and ID, ever the twain shall meet? (Vance)
Tornado Through a Junkyard? (aeroz19)
Transitional fossils and Xeno's Paradox (Ryal Kane)
We scientists (h2whoa)
What I'd like to see from creationists... (Pete Harcoff)
What "kind" is it? (Lady Shea)
Why do professional creationists lie? (Mechanical Bliss)
Why I post, or "Yes, you can be a Christian and accept evolution" (Vance)
Why 'ID theory' fails (Electric Sceptic)
YECists: If Genesis was absolutely disproven, what would you do? (aeroz19)
YECs require evolution (Pete Harcoff)
Your credentials (Humanista)
Embedded Age' and Why it's wrong(BananaSlug)

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

(C&E Thread Archive Cont'd)

Biology

Abiogenesis (lucaspa)
Beneficial mutation rates not a problem (Pete Harcoff)
Biogeography falsifies the worldwide flood (Frumious Bandersnatch)
Biogeography and global flood myth again (Frumious Bandersnatch)
Biology Textbooks & Abiogenesis (Randall McNally)
A comparison of human genetic code with the genetic code of other primates (samiam)
Common ancestry: Assumption or conclusion (Tomk80)
Conceptualizing evolution: microevolution, macroevolution, and the fossil record (Pete Harcoff)
Dembski, Behe, and Intelligent Design (The Bellman)
Designing By Darwinian Selection (lucaspa)
Did we evolve from apes? Well, yes and no (Karl - Liberal Backslider)
Evidence for Human Evolution (LadyShea)
Evidences for evolution (Ray K)
Evolution in action: Argentine ants in Australia (Late_Cretaceous)
Favorite evidence for evolution (HRE)
GULO Pseudogene as evidence for common ancestry among primates (AnEmpiricalAgnostic)
Haeckal in the textbooks? (The Seeker)
Here kitty kitty kitty (Aron-Ra)
Human / Ape Evolution (Discussion)
Human / Chimp Divergence (Mark Kennedy)
The Hallmark of intelligent design (Jet Black)
How would a global flood have affected fish populations? (nvxplorer)
Human Endogenous Retroviral Insertions and Hominid Evolution (HRE)
Information: a problem for evolution? (gluadys)
Insect diversity falsifies the flood myth (Frumious Bandersnatch)
Intelligent Design - another failure (The Bellman)
Is the definition of prokaryote fundamentally flawed? (mikeynov)
Mechanism in Evolution. SETMAR. The origin of a new gene. (rjw)
Men and apes, ducks and birds (Aron-Ra)
Mutation and Selection Producing a Beneficial Change: Glyphosate Resistance (Split Rock)
The Miller-Urey Experiments (Lucretius)
Observed Speciation (lucaspa)
No New Information? (HRE)
Pete's Sock Drawer of Impossibility (Pete Harcoff)
Plants Falsify YEC Global Flood... (Arikay)
Probability and Evolution (random_guy)
Protocells: life from non-life (lucaspa)
Punctuated Equilibrium and Evolution (w81minit)
Real world applications of evolutionary biology (WinAce)
Review of "Ten Major Flaws of Evolution" (Arikay)
The Role of Isolation in Speciation (AnEmpiricalAgnostic)
Six lines of evidence, one common conclusion - evolution ain't going away (mikeynov)
Smoking-Gun Evidence of Man-Monkey Kindred: Episode I (EvilDr.Frog)
Smoking-Gun Evidence of Man-Monkey Kindred: Episode II... Tails (EvilDr.Frog)
Smoking-Gun Evidence of Man-Monkey Kindred: Episode III - Fossils (EvilDr.Frog)
Some of the evidence for chimp-human common ancestry. (WinAce)
The systematic classification of life (Aron-Ra)
The Utility of Evolution (RufusAtticus)
Thought of the day - "new information" and saltation (mikeynov)
Vestigials 101 (USincognito)
Wells' "Icons" of Evolution (Peppered Moths Dispute) (lucaspa)
Whale Evolution, a tail of a wail [sic]. (Arikay)
What's the best evidence for evolution? (buckshot23)
What scientific accomplishments have scientists achieved with evolution? (Pete Harcoff)
Where were the ecosystems post flood? (comana)

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

(C&E Thread Archive Cont'd)

Quiet Threads

Carbon Dating (Jet Black)
Beneficial mutation rates not a problem (Pete Harcoff)
Chromosome Banding Patterns / Endogenous Retroviral Sequences / Transposons (Jet Black)
Common ancestry of humans and chimpanzees: mutations (sfs)
The design filter (jlerollin)
Evidence that the Laws of Physics have not changed over billions of years (Jet Black)
Evolution and gravity: evidence is not interpreted (Caravelair)
Evolution and the Human Brain (Mark Kennedy)
Fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change (Mark Kennedy)
geolgical implications of a recent global deluge (HRE)
Gravitational Time Dilation, Young Earth (Lucretius)
Human / Chimp chromosome fusing (Scigirl)
Human or Ape (Jet Black)
Ica stones are hoaxes, QED (Mistermystery)
Ice-cores prove that the Earth is more then 100,000 years old *at least* (Mistermystery)
Internal Traits and External Mechanisms (Mark Kennedy)
Karsts and the flood (GRMorton)
A refutation of BibleLife.org’s claims about bird evolution (Aggie)
The Misuse of Scripture in the Creation/Evolution Debate (raphael_aa)
Moon too clost to earth in past (Lucretius)
Moon too close to the Earth in past for life (Captain_Jack_Sparrow)
mutations can add "information" to the genome (caravelair)
Mutation Fixation in Human Evolutionary History (jnhofzinser)
Precambrian Unconformity (GRMorton)
Probability (random_guy)
Stomata,Fossil record, and what YEC leaders don't talk about (GRMorton)
Supernova's Remains (SNR) prove that the universe is not young. (Mistermystery)
Thick Large area Chalk deposits present a major problem for the Global flood (Jet Black)
Tiktaalik is neither a Tadpole nor a Crocodile (Jet Black)
Why was the flood so dry? (GRMorton)
Why was Tiktaalik where the scientists predicted it would be? (Jet Black)

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

Updated to include some of the suggestions form the original thread made after MB stopped participating.

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

6/19/2006: Added Index of Quiet Threads.

 

[b*unique]

please post your links here,for the OP to sort as he is able

 

[Edx]

I nominate this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t3007475-did-you-say-evolution-doesnt-teach-man-evolved-from-ape.html

Its so so brilliant. What we have is a Creationist strawman at the start, and then it turns into a massive debate (argument) about Taxonomy. Its the best inadvertant refutation of the OP post Ive ever seen, even if you didnt happen to agree with Aron. So much information here, it really does deserve to be put in the archive.

Ed

 

[fullcloud]

I nominate this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t3007475-did-you-say-evolution-doesnt-teach-man-evolved-from-ape.html

Its so so brilliant. What we have is a Creationist strawman at the start, and then it turns into a massive debate (argument) about Taxonomy. Its the best inadvertant refutation of the OP post Ive ever seen, even if you didnt happen to agree with Aron. So much information here, it really does deserve to be put in the archive.

Ed

Good

 

[fullcloud]

Good thread, Thank you!
exim@uu.pp121.net

 

[RichardT]

So the official CF position is pro-evolution.

 

[Dannager]

So the official CF position is pro-evolution.

No, as far as I'm aware CF takes no stance at all on this. If you'd like to add some creationist thread links to this thread, I don't think anyone would complain. No one has bothered to, though.

 

[ONEGod]

Evolutionist see the world as only viewed from "God's handiwork, and usually themselves.

Creationist see things as evidence of the Creator.

Some have short tunnel vision, and some open their eyes to see there is more that they know.
Dinosaurs do not discredit anything, unless you are a young earther, of which i am not.
It is indeed sad to see so many so easily lead astray.

 

[RichardT]

It is indeed sad to see so many so easily lead astray.

By following the reformation doctrine of sola scriptura we are led astray?

 

[ONEGod]

Explain how you see i said that RichardT. Some get confused by believing their interpretation is what the Bible said/meant. The self is had to keep a bay.

 

[RichardT]

Explain how you see i said that RichardT. Some get confused by believing their interpretation is what the Bible said/meant. The self is had to keep a bay.

Sola-Scriptura is not Scriptura sub Scientia

 

[Assyrian]

How do you think Martin Luther's Sola Scriptura was doing when he called Copernicus a fool?

People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth.

Was Sola Scriptura wrong?
Or was it a case of Interpretatio sub Scientia?

 

[ONEGod]

You are saying we are in conflict, spell out your conflict, Richard T.
Science studies God's handiwork, it does not suppose science takes precedence over God.
Learning of God from His Word (Bible), His Apostles/disciples or from His handiwork does in no way diminish God.

 

[RichardT]

How do you think Martin Luther's Sola Scriptura was doing when he called Copernicus a fool?

Was Sola Scriptura wrong?
Or was it a case of Interpretatio sub Scientia?

He's absolutely right. Sola Scriptura. You didn't know that I was a geocentrist.

 

[Assyrian]

I had forgoten that So how do you feel about flat earth from a Sola Scriptura point of view?

 

[RichardT]

I had forgoten that So how do you feel about flat earth from a Sola Scriptura point of view?

The bible teaches that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22

It is he that sitteth upon the circle (round) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Martin Luther knew the bible didn't teach the earth was flat.