False Translation of the word "homosexual" - 1 Cor 6:9

[RMDY]

Dave, I believe that you and I have different idea about obedience to God. Do you believe that it is possible to be a christian and willingly commit incest? Do you believe it is a christian and possible to ignore God's commands to not steal and go about all your life stealing things?

I'm asking you here a question like: Do you believe sin and grace are compatible? Do you believe God will save your a rebellious soul?

After all, Satan is an angel and is in the presence of God right now.
Satan knows what sin and isn't sin, but continues to cause trouble for everyone despite God's love for all, angels and humans alike.
In the end, it is Satan's disobedience to God, to continually sin and cause sin for everyone that causes this false angel of light to be cast out of Heaven and to be at war with God.

God loves us but if we go the way of Satan and willingly sin and ignore what the Holy Spirit is telling us and believe our feelings and knowledge more than we believe our Spirit, that is Jesus living within us: who is the truth, the way, and the life, in the end we will have destruction because of our rebellion to Jesus, to the God One and Only. I am not suggesting to you that you won't be saved, but giving an example of what disobedience and an unrepenting heart can do to a christian if they go all their life not properly loving their God. (first commandment love your God with all your mind, body and soul)

Have you ever experienced disobedience to your Father before? He will forgive you all the time because he loves you, but if you die, he won't be able to forgive himself because of his broken heart. In the end, sinners will suffer. Being baptised to God means you become his, but if you bear no fruit and your heart is filled with evil despite how much you want to serve him and you don't even ask for forgiveness, what is God going to think. Do you think he sent Jesus into this world so you can continue to sin and do whatever you want? Do you think following is all about earthly things and lawlessness, immorality, strife, anger and problems? Jesus didn't come into this world to smash the wall that is the law only to have sin pouring out constantly into our lives, but to keep that wall that is the law and stop the sin from being poured out into our lives by forgiveness and not sacrificial atonement. Big different here! You are saved by Jesus blood and not sacrificial atonement and self-righteousness through a law! But God commands us to abstain from the same things, immorality, anger, hate, strife, slander, greed, idols, ect. and to walk in love with others and God.

Our bodies are not our own but God's. You don't seem to realize this. When the Holy Spirit dwells within us, that is God, it belongs to God and not yourself. It is not your body, but God's. It is God's body, to be used to serve him, not to be touched by immoral things and used in evil ways.

God bless you Davedjy,
peace be to you from Jesus Christ.

 

[davedjy]

Dave, I believe that you and I have different idea about obedience to God. Do you believe that it is possible to be a christian and willingly commit incest? Do you believe it is a christian and possible to ignore God's commands to not steal and go about all your life stealing things?

I'm asking you here a question like: Do you believe sin and grace are compatible? Do you believe God will save your a rebellious soul?

After all, Satan is an angel and is in the presence of God right now.
Satan knows what sin and isn't sin, but continues to cause trouble for everyone despite God's love for all, angels and humans alike.
In the end, it is Satan's disobedience to God, to continually sin and cause sin for everyone that causes this false angel of light to be cast out of Heaven and to be at war with God.

God loves us but if we go the way of Satan and willingly sin and ignore what the Holy Spirit is telling us and believe our feelings and knowledge more than we believe our Spirit, that is Jesus living within us: who is the truth, the way, and the life, in the end we will have destruction because of our rebellion to Jesus, to the God One and Only. I am not suggesting to you that you won't be saved, but giving an example of what disobedience and an unrepenting heart can do to a christian if they go all their life not properly loving their God. (first commandment love your God with all your mind, body and soul)

Have you ever experienced disobedience to your Father before? He will forgive you all the time because he loves you, but if you die, he won't be able to forgive himself because of his broken heart. In the end, sinners will suffer. Being baptised to God means you become his, but if you bear no fruit and your heart is filled with evil despite how much you want to serve him and you don't even ask for forgiveness, what is God going to think. Do you think he sent Jesus into this world so you can continue to sin and do whatever you want? Do you think following is all about earthly things and lawlessness, immorality, strife, anger and problems? Jesus didn't come into this world to smash the wall that is the law only to have sin pouring out constantly into our lives, but to keep that wall that is the law and stop the sin from being poured out into our lives by forgiveness and not sacrificial atonement. Big different here! You are saved by Jesus blood and not sacrificial atonement and self-righteousness through a law! But God commands us to abstain from the same things, immorality, anger, hate, strife, slander, greed, idols, ect. and to walk in love with others and God.

Our bodies are not our own but God's. You don't seem to realize this. When the Holy Spirit dwells within us, that is God, it belongs to God and not yourself. It is not your body, but God's. It is God's body, to be used to serve him, not to be touched by immoral things and used in evil ways.

God bless you Davedjy,
peace be to you from Jesus Christ.

I gave you the true interpretations, and yes, I respect and obey my parents!
Get to know the facts about homosexuality:

http://gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/gay_and_christian_yes.htm

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]You have not.

Disprove this one, just ONE:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

< Pro-homosexual link omitted>[/SIZE]

FACT: An anonymous homosexual trying to legitimize what God has condemned, saying "Fact," does not make it so.

FACT: The anonymous dood at the link does not present any historical, grammatical, or lexical evidence for his opinions.

FACT: From the time Moses delivered the law, to the Israelites, about 1200 BC, until the present, Jewish scholars interpreted the O.T. scriptures as condemning ALL same gender sex acts; by ALL persons, male and female; at ALL times, in ALL places, and under ALL circumstances, NO exceptions.

FACT: Here are citations from the actual historical writings, which CANNOT be nor have been refuted by anyone posting here.

Talmud -- Sanhedrin 54a

MISHNAH. HE WHO COMMITS SODOMY WITH A MALE OR A BEAST, AND A WOMAN THAT COMMITS BESTIALITY ARE STONED. . . . Our Rabbis taught: If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]. . . [Note: All upper case appears in the original]

Sanhedrin 54b

This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? &#8212; From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.[sup]1[/sup] . . . whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? &#8212; Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:[sup]2[sup] and it is further said, . . .

Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused &#8212; R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. . . .

for there shall be no Sodomite applies to sodomy with mankind. [sup]13[/sup] . . .

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Jewish Encyclopedia - Dog

The shamelessness of the dog in regard to sexual life gave rise to the name ("dog") for the class of priests in the service of Astarte who practised sodomy ("kedeshim," called also by the Greeks &#954;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#959;&#953;, Deut. xxiii. 19 [A. V. 18]; compare ib. 18 [17] and Rev. xxii. 15; see Driver ad loc.), . . .(see "C. I. S." i., No. 86).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=415&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Chastity

(e) The unnatural crimes against chastity, sodomy and pederasty, prevalent in heathendom, were strictly prohibited (Lev. xviii. 22, 23; xx. 13, 15, 16; Deut. xxvii. 21).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=386&letter=C

Jewish Encyclopedia - DIDACHE -

Dependence upon Jewish Custom.

2: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. xx. 14). (This includes: "Thou shalt not commit sodomy nor fornication.") "Thou shalt not steal" (Ex. xx. 15). . . .

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=341&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Crime

In three cases the person on the point of committing a crime may be killed: where he pursues a neighbor in order to kill him; where he pursues a male to commit sodomy;

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=301&letter=L

Jewish Encyclopedia - The 613 Commandments,: 3347-53.

Adultery, sodomy, etc. Lev. Xviii. 7, 14, 20, 22, 23.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=689&letter=C​

"We Can't Legitimate Homosexuality Halakhically" (USCJ Review, Spring 2004): Joel Roth

The two verses in the book of (Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) which deal with homosexuality are really quite clear, despite the efforts of some to call their clarity into question. (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 absolutely forbid homosexual intercourse between males. The Rabbis, in the Sifra (Aharei Mot 9:8), also understand the Torah to forbid lesbianism. The Torah&#8217;s prohibitions, let it be clear, are against actions, like male homosexual intercourse, not against fantasies or attractions.

The Torah and the Rabbis do not distinguish between types of homosexuals in any way... The Rabbis were well able to conceive of monogamous and loving relationships between members of the same sex, and I quote in my paper the texts that prove this beyond reasonable question. But their words cannot possibly be read to imply that such monogamous or loving gay relationships are in a different halakhic [Jewish legal] category than any other relationships between members of the same sex. The prohibition is clear and total.&#8221;​

http://www.uscj.org/POINTRoth6331.html

Naomi Grossman, freelance journalist, states in her April 2001 article in Moment Magazine, "The Gay Orthodox Undergound":

"The Torah strictly forbids homosexual sex, and rabbis have consistently upheld that prohibition through the ages... The prohibition against homosexual sex comes from Leviticus: 'Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence' (18:22). In biblical times, the punishment for violating that code was clear. 'If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death -&#8212; their bloodguilt is upon them' (Leviticus 20:13). The Talmud extends the prohibition to lesbian sex [Hilchot Issurei Bi'ah 21:8]."

Official Orthodoxy makes no distinction between the sex act, which the Torah flatly prohibits, and homosexuality as a sexual identity. "Homosexuality is not a state of being in traditional Judaism; it's an act," Freundel says. "Desires are &#8230; not relevant."​

http://members.aol.com/gayjews/moment.html​

 

[davedjy]

Satan does not want people to live out their lives as gay people! As if same sex love is wrong? As if God would be so arbitrary as to say: "you have to be with a woman if you are a man, otherwise you are living in sin". It's preposterous, and it isn't true. There are 450 Vertebrate species born gay, bi, lesbian and transgender.

Get to know the facts. Google and research before making me waste more energy with posts, please. Thank you.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]You have not.

Disprove this one, just ONE:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one&#8217;s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

<pro-homosexual link omitted>[/SIZE]

FACT: Posting the same link over and over and over does NOT make anything a fact.

FACT: The early church fathers, including Ignatius and Polycarp, disciples of John, and Ireaneus, a disciple of Polycarp, from, about, 50 AD to 258 AD, interpreted the N.T. scriptures as condemning ALL same gender sex acts; by ALL persons, male and female; at ALL times, in ALL places, and under ALL circumstances, with NO exceptions.

The ECF did NOT even mention, and did NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, &#8220;homosexual rape,&#8221; &#8220;temple prostitution,&#8221; pagan temples and/or pagan religious activities!

The early church interpreted &#945;&#961;&#963;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#951;&#962;/arsenokoités [1 Cor 6:9] variously as,

&#8226; &#8220;sodomy,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;filth of sodomy,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8221;lawless lust,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;lust,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;impurity,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;works of the flesh,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;carnal,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;lawless intercourse,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;shameless,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;burning with insane love for boys,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;licentiousness,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;co-habitors with males,&#8221;
&#8226; &#8220;lusters after mankind
&#8226; &#8220;monstrosities,&#8221; etc.​

Quoted from;

&#8226; Ignatius, 30-107 AD;
&#8226; Polycarp 65 - 155 AD;
&#8226; Irenaeus, 120-202 AD;
&#8226; Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD;
&#8226; Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217 AD;
&#8226; Tertullian, 145-220 AD;
&#8226; Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and
&#8226; Origen, 185-254 AD.​

The word &#945;&#961;&#963;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#951;&#962;/arsenokoités is one of the words that the above link claims is mistranslated as "homosexual."

Epistle Of Ignatius [Disciple of John] To The Ephesians [A.D. 30-107.]

But as to the practice of magic, or the impure love of boys, or murder, it is superfluous to write to you, since such vices are forbidden to be committed even by the Gentiles. I do not issue commands on these points as if I were an apostle; but, as your fellow-servant, I put you in mind of them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.html

Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]

In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9] " nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.iv.ii.html

Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]

So also he who has continued in the aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle [Paul] testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

Since, therefore, in that passage [1 Cor 6:9] he [Paul] recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers],

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.html


Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.

And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit. Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iv.ii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. . . .Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria Exhortation To The Heathen

And what are the laws? &#8220;Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God.&#8221; And the complements of these are those laws of reason and words of sanctity which are inscribed on men&#8217;s hearts: &#8220;Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; to him who strikes thee on the cheek, present also the other;&#8221; &#8220;thou shalt not lust, for by lust alone thou hast committed adultery.&#8221;

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.ii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

But life has reached this pitch of licentiousness through the wantonness of wickedness, and lasciviousness is diffused over the cities, having become law. Beside them women stand in the stews, offering their own flesh for hire for lewd pleasure, and boys, taught to deny their sex, act the part of women. Luxury has deranged all things; it has disgraced man. A luxurious niceness seeks everything, attempts everything, forces everything, coerces nature. Men play the part of women, and women that of men, contrary to nature; women are at once wives and husbands: no passage is closed against libidinousness; [i.e. every possible body orifice is used for &#8220;lechery&#8221;/&#8220;libidinousness.&#8221;] and their promiscuous lechery is a public institution, and luxury is domesticated.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.i.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves

Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious: the whole earth has now become full of fornication and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.

Just as, again, among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that "adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9]" he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it. But to them from whom "the kingdom" is taken away, of course the life which exists in the kingdom is not permitted either. Moreover, by superadding, "But such indeed ye have been; but ye have received ablution, but ye have been sanctified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God;" [1 Cor 6:9]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI.

Demanding then a law of God, you have that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle [Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html

Tertullian VII. On Modesty.[sup]1[/sup] Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.

Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]

65. That all sins are put away in baptism.

In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.xii.html

Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD] [student of Clement of Alexandria]

and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, &#8220;men with men working that which is unseemly.&#8221; [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.ix.viii.html​

 

[MercyBurst]

FACT: An anonymous homosexual trying to legitimize what God has condemned, saying "Fact," does not make it so.

FACT: The anonymous dood at the link does not present any historical, grammatical, or lexical evidence for his opinions.

FACT: From the time Moses delivered the law, to the Israelites, about 1200 BC, until the present, Jewish scholars interpreted the O.T. scriptures as condemning ALL same gender sex acts; by ALL persons, male and female; at ALL times, in ALL places, and under ALL circumstances, NO exceptions.

FACT: Here are citations from the actual historical writings, which CANNOT be nor have been refuted by anyone posting here.

Talmud -- Sanhedrin 54a ​

MISHNAH. HE WHO COMMITS SODOMY WITH A MALE OR A BEAST, AND A WOMAN THAT COMMITS BESTIALITY ARE STONED. . . . Our Rabbis taught: If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]. . . [Note: All upper case appears in the original]​

Sanhedrin 54b​

This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? — From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.[sup]1[/sup] . . . whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? — Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:[sup]2[sup] and it is further said, . . .​

Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused — R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. . . .​

for there shall be no Sodomite applies to sodomy with mankind. [sup]13[/sup] . . .​

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><​

Jewish Encyclopedia - Dog​

The shamelessness of the dog in regard to sexual life gave rise to the name ("dog") for the class of priests in the service of Astarte who practised sodomy ("kedeshim," called also by the Greeks &#954;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#959;&#953;, Deut. xxiii. 19 [A. V. 18]; compare ib. 18 [17] and Rev. xxii. 15; see Driver ad loc.), . . .(see "C. I. S." i., No. 86).​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=415&letter=D​

Jewish Encyclopedia - Chastity​

(e) The unnatural crimes against chastity, sodomy and pederasty, prevalent in heathendom, were strictly prohibited (Lev. xviii. 22, 23; xx. 13, 15, 16; Deut. xxvii. 21).​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=386&letter=C​

Jewish Encyclopedia - DIDACHE - ​

Dependence upon Jewish Custom.​

2: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. xx. 14). (This includes: "Thou shalt not commit sodomy nor fornication.") "Thou shalt not steal" (Ex. xx. 15). . . .​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=341&letter=D​

Jewish Encyclopedia - Crime​

In three cases the person on the point of committing a crime may be killed: where he pursues a neighbor in order to kill him; where he pursues a male to commit sodomy;​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=301&letter=L​

Jewish Encyclopedia - The 613 Commandments,: 3347-53.​

Adultery, sodomy, etc. Lev. Xviii. 7, 14, 20, 22, 23.​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=689&letter=C​

"We Can't Legitimate Homosexuality Halakhically" (USCJ Review, Spring 2004): Joel Roth​

The two verses in the book of (Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) which deal with homosexuality are really quite clear, despite the efforts of some to call their clarity into question. (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 absolutely forbid homosexual intercourse between males. The Rabbis, in the Sifra (Aharei Mot 9:8), also understand the Torah to forbid lesbianism. The Torah’s prohibitions, let it be clear, are against actions, like male homosexual intercourse, not against fantasies or attractions.​

The Torah and the Rabbis do not distinguish between types of homosexuals in any way... The Rabbis were well able to conceive of monogamous and loving relationships between members of the same sex, and I quote in my paper the texts that prove this beyond reasonable question. But their words cannot possibly be read to imply that such monogamous or loving gay relationships are in a different halakhic [Jewish legal] category than any other relationships between members of the same sex. The prohibition is clear and total.”​

http://www.uscj.org/POINTRoth6331.html

Naomi Grossman, freelance journalist, states in her April 2001 article in Moment Magazine, "The Gay Orthodox Undergound":

"The Torah strictly forbids homosexual sex, and rabbis have consistently upheld that prohibition through the ages... The prohibition against homosexual sex comes from Leviticus: 'Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence' (18:22). In biblical times, the punishment for violating that code was clear. 'If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death -— their bloodguilt is upon them' (Leviticus 20:13). The Talmud extends the prohibition to lesbian sex [Hilchot Issurei Bi'ah 21:8]."​

Official Orthodoxy makes no distinction between the sex act, which the Torah flatly prohibits, and homosexuality as a sexual identity. "Homosexuality is not a state of being in traditional Judaism; it's an act," Freundel says. "Desires are … not relevant."​

http://members.aol.com/gayjews/moment.html
​

Der Alter, let me give you a helpful little tip here.

I mean I really appreciate all the hard work you do, and your posts are carefully thought through, no doubt, and chocked full of the best and finest scriptures with their immaculate historicity, this is true.... but you have to remember the audience here: they can't even read a bible.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]FACT: Same old tired link.[/SIZE]

I don't post "links," you do! I post credible, verifiable, historical evidence, and link to my primary sources. Evidence which, OBTW, neither you nor any other person posting pro-homosexual arguments has even made any reasonable attempt to address.

[SIZE=-1]FACT: There are LOTS Of gay Affirming Christian Churches in the United States, MCC being one of them[/SIZE]

Irrelevant, derailing your own thread. In case you have forgotten, the title is, "False translation of the word 'homosexual' - 1Cor 6:9"

And I can probably find some kind of church that affirms almost anything.

[SIZE=-1]FACT: Most forum members who troll here are gay themselves[/SIZE]

Being homosexaul must be a bad thing, to you, since you keep trying to insult people by calling them homosexual. And here you are equating homosexual with being a troll.

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter, let me give you a helpful little tip here.

I mean I really appreciate all the hard work you do, and your posts are carefully thought through, no doubt, and chocked full of the best and finest scriptures with their immaculate historicity, this is true.... but you have to remember the audience here: they can't even read a bible.

Preaching to the choir, my brother. Bintheredunthatgotthetshirtdontfit.But if I keep posting the truth, maybe I can reach just one person who is questioning, undecided, unsure and that one person can truly turn to God, then it will all have been worth it.

 

[MercyBurst]

Preaching to the choir, my brother. Bintheredunthatgotthetshirtdontfit.But if I keep posting the truth, maybe I can reach just one person who is questioning, undecided, unsure and that one person can truly turn to God, then it will all have been worth it.

I must admit, you do your homework, and show yourself diligent with scripture. Well done. Peace be with you.

 

[MercyBurst]

Originally Posted by davedjy
[SIZE=-1]FACT: There are LOTS Of gay Affirming Christian Churches in the United States, MCC being one of them[/SIZE]

Never heard of 'em.

uhh ohhh now I see why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church

The MCC has been repeatedly denied membership in the National Council of Churches,

Even the liberal churches can't stomach this one:


Member denominations (February 2007)

• African Methodist Episcopal Church -- [1]
• The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
• Alliance of Baptists -- [2]
• American Baptist Churches USA -- [3]
• Diocese of the Armenian Church of America -- [4]
• Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) -- [5]
• Christian Methodist Episcopal Church -- [6]
• Church of the Brethren -- [7]
• The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America -- [8]
• The Episcopal Church in the United States of America -- [9]
• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- [10]
• Friends United Meeting -- [11]
• Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America -- [12]
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America -- [13]
• International Council of Community Churches -- [14]
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America
• Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
• Mar Thoma Church
• Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province -- [15]
• National Baptist Convention of America -- [16]
• National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. -- [17]
• National Missionary Baptist Convention of America -- [18]
• Orthodox Church in America -- [19]
• Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA -- [20]
• Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends -- [21]
• Polish National Catholic Church of America -- [22]
• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) -- [23]
• Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc. -- [24]
• Reformed Church in America -- [25]
• Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada -- [26]
• The Swedenborgian Church of North America -- [27]
• Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch -- [28]
• Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America -- [29]
• United Church of Christ -- [30]
• The United Methodist Church -- [31]

The United Church of Christ [ref 29] marries gays so I hear. Even they got admitted. Well Dave you sure know how to pick a LOSER.

 

[PastorJim]

Way to go PJ!!

What's this verse I read about people that are contentious with the bible -- like they aren't even worth listening to? Something like that.

Thanks. Romans 16:17 comes to mind.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Der Alter, let me give you a helpful little tip here.

I mean I really appreciate all the hard work you do, and your posts are carefully thought through, no doubt, and chocked full of the best and finest scriptures with their immaculate historicity, this is true.... but you have to remember the audience here: they can't even read a bible.

That depends on what side of the mason Dixon line one resides.

 

[DMagoh]

That depends on what side of the mason Dixon line one resides.

Yeah, I hear that northerners dont even read the Bible.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Yeah, I hear that northerners dont even read the Bible.

maybe so but we can use Phoenics and sound out the words if we wish .

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Davedjy,

I gave you the true interpretations,

You gave the wrong one, you have been given the Christian one. I have stated the words and their meanings which you can see are widely held by scholars and have been so in the various translations.

Get to know the facts about homosexuality:

get to know the facts about Christianity

 

[davedjy]

Dear Davedjy,

You gave the wrong one, you have been given the Christian one. I have stated the words and their meanings which you can see are widely held by scholars and have been so in the various translations.

get to know the facts about Christianity

Christianity means reaching out to others in love.

Some people here need to stop hiding behind false doctrine on homosexuality. That is a word for a member here in this forum.

 

[RMDY]

Christianity means reaching out to others in love.

Some people here need to stop hiding behind false doctrine on homosexuality. That is a word for a member here in this forum.

Following Christ also means to follow God and align your will with his.

"To confess, in the original Greek language, means to agree with God --- in at least two ways:

1. I know that certain attitudes or actions which are contrary to God's Word and will are sinful.
2. I agree with God that Christ's death on the cross has paid the penalty for my sins, according to Colossians 1:13, 14 and Hebrews 10:10. I repent --- I change my attitude --- toward those sins, and that results in a positive change in my actions."

Seven things God hates:

"Let me describe for you a worthless and a wicked man; first he is a constant liar; he signals his true intentions to his friends with eyes and feet and fingers. Next, his heart is full of rebellion. And he spends his time thinking of all the evil he can do, and stirring up discontent.
'But he will be destroyed suddenly, broken beyond hope of healing. For there are six things the Lord hates --- no, seven: haughtiness, lying, murdering, plotting evil eagerness to do wrong, a false witness, sowing discord among brothers' (proverbs 6:12-19 TLB)"


haughtiness - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiorsarrogance, hauteur, highhandedness, lordliness
pride - the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards
hubris - overbearing pride or presumption
domineeringness, imperiousness, overbearingness - the trait of being imperious and overbearing
condescension, disdainfulness, superciliousness - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
superiority - displaying a sense of being better than others; "he hated the white man's superiority and condescension"
snobbery, snobbishness - the trait of condescending to those of lower social status




e·vil play_w("E0255300") (

v

l)adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est 1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com

 

[davedjy]

Following Christ also means to follow God and align your will with his.

"To confess, in the original Greek language, means to agree with God --- in at least two ways:

1. I know that certain attitudes or actions which are contrary to God's Word and will are sinful.
2. I agree with God that Christ's death on the cross has paid the penalty for my sins, according to Colossians 1:13, 14 and Hebrews 10:10. I repent --- I change my attitude --- toward those sins, and that results in a positive change in my actions."

Seven things God hates:

"Let me describe for you a worthless and a wicked man; first he is a constant liar; he signals his true intentions to his friends with eyes and feet and fingers. Next, his heart is full of rebellion. And he spends his time thinking of all the evil he can do, and stirring up discontent.
'But he will be destroyed suddenly, broken beyond hope of healing. For there are six things the Lord hates --- no, seven: haughtiness, lying, murdering, plotting evil eagerness to do wrong, a false witness, sowing discord among brothers' (proverbs 6:12-19 TLB)"


haughtiness - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiorsarrogance, hauteur, highhandedness, lordliness
pride - the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards
hubris - overbearing pride or presumption
domineeringness, imperiousness, overbearingness - the trait of being imperious and overbearing
condescension, disdainfulness, superciliousness - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
superiority - displaying a sense of being better than others; "he hated the white man's superiority and condescension"
snobbery, snobbishness - the trait of condescending to those of lower social status




e·vil play_w("E0255300") (

v

l)adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est 1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com

You have yet to prove that being gay is evil, so your English lexicon, does not help your point here.

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one&#8217;s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

FACT: Your sexual constitution has nothing to do with salvation.

Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

 

[RMDY]

You have yet to prove that being gay is evil, so your English lexicon, does not help your point here.

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

FACT: Your sexual constitution has nothing to do with salvation.

Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

God declared what sexual practices are evil in Leviticus 18 and 20. As Christian's, we don't worship in temples to the Lord, so laws only apply to us morally. God doesn't limit those laws to rituals and ceremonies, just like God doesn't limit Sabbath worship to a temple.

 

[davedjy]

God declared what sexual practices are evil in Leviticus 18 and 20. As Christian's, we don't worship in temples to the Lord, so laws only apply to us morally. God doesn't limit those laws to rituals and ceremonies, just like God doesn't limit Sabbath worship to a temple.

5. Temple Prostitution in Canaan (Leviticus 18:22)
Temple prostitution played also a vital role in the Canaanite religion of worshipping Molech in the OT. In the Canaanite religion, the fertility of the land depended upon Molech having sex with the love goddess Astoroth. The Canaanites, imitated this through prostitution in their worship rituals. The prostitute would play the part of Astoroth, while the customer/worshipper played the part of Molech.

However, the prostitutes playing Astoroth's role were not females, but instead were males... they would dress up as women, wearing elaborate Goddess vestments and Goddess masks on their faces. The customers/ worshippers were also males- Those males would lie with a male as if a female.

It seems almost too simple. For those who wish for further proof that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid lying with one of Molech's temple prostitutes I have put together the following arguments:

A. CONEXT: Leviticus 18:2-5 says that practices following, including obviously the "homosexual" acts in 18:22, were part of "the doings... of Canaan". Also see 19:26-29.

So the "homosexual" acts in Leviticus 18:22. 20:13 were part of Canaanite rituals. Funny thing is, the only form of homosexuality used by the Canaanites in their rituals was that of transvestitic temple prostitution.

The end of chapter 20 says that those practices were labeled as "abomination" because they were the idolatrous practices of the Canaanites.

B. THE DEATH PENALTY AND DEUTERONOMY: If you make a list of crimes in Leviticus in which the punishment is death, you will notice that all the death penalty crimes are repeated once again in the Old Testament, especially in Deuteronomy.

But homosexuality is not repeated there (nor anywhere else in the Old Testament), even though ALL of the other death penalty crimes are. However, Deuteronomy does mention male temple prostitution, and calls it toevah.

Here is the list:

Leviticus 20:3-5: Child sacrifice. This is repeated in 2Kings 16:3 and Deuteronomy 12:31.

Leviticus 20:6: Mediums and wizards. This is included in Deuteronomy's 'no other gods', 5:7 et al.

Leviticus 20:9: Cursing one's parents. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 27:16.

Leviticus 20:10: Adultery. Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:18, 22:22.

Leviticus 20:11: Incest with father's wife. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:20.

Leviticus 20:12 Incest with child's spouse. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:23.

Leviticus 20:13: Allegedly homosexuality in general. Not repeated anywhere else in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20:14: Incest: both daughter and mother. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:23.

Leviticus 20:15: Man committing bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:21.

Leviticus 20:16: woman commiting bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:21

"Seven out of nine are repeated precisely in Deuteronomy - down to the details of which degree of consanguinity is involved in acts of incest. 20:12 (incest with a daughter-in-law) is not repeated precisely, but the same degree of consanguinity is forbidden in Deut. 20:23. Necromancy is not specifically forbidden again in Deuteronomy, but it is attested in a number of places outside of Leviticus 18/20, notably in I Samuel 14:32-35, which refers to the death penalty associated with the practice." -- Royce Beuhler

http://home.wanadoo.nl/inspiritus/The%20Mystery.htm