Holocaust

[Loukuss]

In advance I would like to explain that my question here is in regards to a debate I am having with my atheist friend.

Why didnt God stop the holocaust from happening?

I am versed in this subject adequately but need some help formulating a much better response. Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Yeznik]

Then how would man be held accountable for his actions? If God stepped in every time we did something wrong and didn't hold us accountable for it how would we then have free will?

 

[HypnoToad]

Yeah, free will.

Also, how do you know God didn't have any influence on preventing it from being worse than it was? Imagine of no one ever stopped Germany.

 

[Yeznik]

Yeah, free will.

Also, how do you know God didn't have any influence on preventing it from being worse than it was? Imagine of no one ever stopped Germany.

Thank God for the Russians.

 

[New_Wineskin]

In advance I would like to explain that my question here is in regards to a debate I am having with my atheist friend.

Why didnt God stop the holocaust from happening?

I am versed in this subject adequately but need some help formulating a much better response. Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks.

This is my take on it when I hear questions like this :

A lot of people have a big problem with predestination . They say that everyone would be a "robot" if that was true . They also like to have freedom to do whatever they wanted . If the Lord stopped them everytime they wanted to do something not right , they would say that they were stifled . Yet , when it comes to other people , they say that "god" should have prevented them from doing something . So , freedom for them - no freedom for others .

 

[PaladinValer]

God allows evils, but He doesn't cause it.

We have our own broken free will. We choose to do evil, we must pay the price.

 

[Solidlyhere]

God created the Universe.
God created people, to live in the Universe.

God created Satan.
God gave Satan power in this world.
Twice Jesus, Himself, called Satan the ruler (or Prince) of THIS World.
When Jesus was asked if He was the King, He said: "Not of THIS World."
So, Jesus is part of the OTHER World, the one where Heaven is.

People have a choice:
1) Try to focus on God, and follow HIS ways; or
2) Follow the "warped" ideas that Satan places in our minds.

The question: Why did God allow the Holocaust?

Why did God create EVERY person so that they would die some day?
Because, that's what God did.
Each person who is born, will die (and hopefully move on to the Afterlife).

This Holocaust question is really Bogus.
The same person can ask: Why did God allow the Civil War to happen?
Or, Why does God allow children to get Cancer and die?

God gives people the choice to live whatever Life they will Live.
If a particular person happens to be named Adolf Hitler, then he can live his Life the way he chooses to (just like the rest of us).
If this Hitler-guy gets given control over a country (like Germany), then he gets to make policy decisions about how his citizens live (or die).
In the case of the Holocaust, Hitler decided that he would like to have LESS Jews living in his Country.
He, as his country's leader, decided how to enforce his whim: "Hey, why don't I just kill-off all of the Jews?"
Because other people in his government obey their "king" ... they followed his orders.
A few years later, 6 Million Jews were dead.
It's about as simple as that.

God does NOT prevent all evil.
I am sure that God would prefer that people do NOT commit evil acts.
But, God has given us Satan, to confuse us, and cause problems (like the Holocaust).

Each person has the Option to be nice. This is what's important: What I do with my Life.
Other people have their own Life, and I hope that they will act nicely too.
But, the reality is: Many people do awful things.
My job, as a Christian, is to accept the things that have happened, and try to make a better World (in spite of it).

 

[TigerBunny]

In advance I would like to explain that my question here is in regards to a debate I am having with my atheist friend.

Why didnt God stop the holocaust from happening?

I am versed in this subject adequately but need some help formulating a much better response. Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks.

What was your original response?

 

[MezzaMorta]

God allows evils, but He doesn't cause it.

God created evil.

 

[KTatis]

God allows evils, but He doesn't cause it.

We have our own broken free will. We choose to do evil, we must pay the price.

Actually he dose.

 

[Nachtjager]

To one of the previous posts, do you know what you're saying?!!? Thank God for the most murderous regime in the history of mankind? The massacres of Joseph Stalin make the Holocaust pale in comparison, and Christianity was completely surpressed by Stalin's regime.

I have family from Germany. The things the Soviets did to my grandmother and her family in Potsdam after the fall of Berlin is the stuff serious nightmares are made of. The Soviet soldiers were savages, pure and simple, and committed atrocities too countless to name. Pick up any book about the war on the eastern front and you'll find plenty of documentary and photographic evidence. I have too many family stories to tell in this department, as you can tell, it's a sore subject, forgive me.

In regards to the original purpose of this thread, why does God allow any such tragedy? Why did WWII begin to start with? Why did the swine flu epidemic of 1919 kill more people in one year than WWI did in its entire course? God is not accountable to us, we are accountable to God. It's just that simple.

The Holocaust occurred because people were apathetic to its approach, both the German population, the world's population, and the Jews themselves. Nobody would accept that it would come to something like that, including those caught up in it. And history has taught us nothing, because in America today, we are once again completely apathetic and too many believe that there is no threat against Christians and Jews from Islam. And once something horrible happens, everyone will stand around and go, "how did it come to something like this?"

And God will be observing, once again, and holding those to account for their deeds - or lack thereof.

Heavy subject - take care and God bless!

 

[Nachtjager]

The question of good and evil is laid out quite well in Isaiah 45. I'd love to hear a sermon on this passage one day.
ISAIAH 45:
5) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8) Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

NKJ VERSION

Take care and God bless!

 

[Yeznik]

To one of the previous posts, do you know what you're saying?!!? Thank God for the most murderous regime in the history of mankind? The massacres of Joseph Stalin make the Holocaust pale in comparison, and Christianity was completely surpressed by Stalin's regime.

I have family from Germany. The things the Soviets did to my grandmother and her family in Potsdam after the fall of Berlin is the stuff serious nightmares are made of. The Soviet soldiers were savages, pure and simple, and committed atrocities too countless to name. Pick up any book about the war on the eastern front and you'll find plenty of documentary and photographic evidence. I have too many family stories to tell in this department, as you can tell, it's a sore subject, forgive me.

In regards to the original purpose of this thread, why does God allow any such tragedy? Why did WWII begin to start with? Why did the swine flu epidemic of 1919 kill more people in one year than WWI did in its entire course? God is not accountable to us, we are accountable to God. It's just that simple.

The Holocaust occurred because people were apathetic to its approach, both the German population, the world's population, and the Jews themselves. Nobody would accept that it would come to something like that, including those caught up in it. And history has taught us nothing, because in America today, we are once again completely apathetic and too many believe that there is no threat against Christians and Jews from Islam. And once something horrible happens, everyone will stand around and go, "how did it come to something like this?"

And God will be observing, once again, and holding those to account for their deeds - or lack thereof.

Heavy subject - take care and God bless!

The Russians were to first to beat back the Nazi's I am not talking specifically about Stalin or Lenin.

 

[MezzaMorta]

The Soviet soldiers were savages, pure and simple, and committed atrocities too countless to name.

The lesser of two evils, if the German people had not supported Hitler it would not have been necessary to support them in the war against Germany.

 

[Nachtjager]

No offense Bro. Yeznik, but who do you think the Russians were fighting for in 1945?

It was those average Soviet soldiers who machine gunned the priest my grandmother grew up with - and I'd rather not say what they did to what was left of the cathedral or to her and her sisters.

I just pray we learn from our past. Let's not repeat former mistakes. Take care brother, I hope I haven't caused any ruffled feathers. God bless!

 

[E.C.]

Why does God allow stuff to happen? Punishment or to teach a lesson.

 

[PaladinValer]

Actually he dose.

God created evil.

I very much disagree.

The word in Hebrew here is ra, which can mean evil but also can mean calamity, which is not automatically evil in and of itself.

You must remember that the Hebrew people thought all natural disasters were caused by God, for the punishment of sins or when He was angry. Earthquakes are calamities, not evil.

I also note that the opposite of peace is not evil. It is woe. Woe is not inheritently evil either; people are woeful when a close friend or family member passes on.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Here is the 'free will defense' of God in the problem of evil as formulated by Alvin Plantinga:

1. Creatures who are significantly free cannot be causally determined to do only what is right.
2. Thus, if God creates creatures who are significantly free, He cannot causally determine them to do only what is right. (from 1)
3. Thus, if God creates creatures who are significantly free, he must create creatures who are capable of moral evil. (from 2)
4. Thus, if God creates a world containing creatures who are significantly free, it will contain creatures who are capable of moral evil. (from 3)
5. If God creates a world containing creatures who are capable of moral evil, He cannot guarantee that there will not be evil in that world.
6. Thus, if God creates a world containing creatures who are significantly free, He cannot guarantee that there will not be evil in that world. (from 4 and 5)
7. A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more morally good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all.
8. Thus, God has good reason to create a world containing creatures who are significantly free. (from 7)
9. Thus, God has good reason to create a world, which He cannot guarantee will not contain evil. (from 6 and 8).

 

[KTatis]

I very much disagree.

The word in Hebrew here is ra, which can mean evil but also can mean calamity, which is not automatically evil in and of itself.

"I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known me; that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things." (Isa. 45:5-7)

It is important to note that the translation of verse 7 varies according to Bible version:

The NIV says, "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

The New American Standard Bible says: "The One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."

And the English Standard Version: "I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."

 

[DArceri]

God created everything good...It's in Genesis.

Just like cold is the absence of heat, or dark is the absence of light, then evil is the absence of good. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good. In other words, God does not create evil, He only allows it.