This bugs me...the chosen people

[ThePumpkin]

thank you for the knowledge!

 

[ThePumpkin]

God has chosen every one But he gave A chance to the jewish people to see if they will follow him,but As all men do They have sinned time after time.

 

[BamaLady53]

I really like this forum. Never been here before. Read numerous posts. Lot of meat. FYI. I believe in one God, Yahweh; one savior, Yeshua.
Note: Because someone or something is called a god, does not make it a supreme, sovreign, all-knowing eternal creator and lover of our souls. Let's not be confused. Amen?

 

[Nimrauko]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

I would like to respond beings my mother is jewish.
Its not that the jewish people are gods "Chosen People". Its like my mothers rabbi says, "We are not the chosen people but a chosing people". They CHOSE to follow gods commandments, thus accepting the terms of the covenant he made with them. AN EVERLASTING Covenant. The New Covenant that was fulfilled by Christs coming, doesnt null void the abrahamic covenant. I dont think any ways. The jewish people (aside for some of the reform movement) Follow most of the 613 commandments god gave us in the old testament. (the ones that still apply). I hope that helped you.

 

[Nimrauko]

God spoke to many at the time of Abraham. Just as one example, Lot! And Abraham gave a tithe to a person called Melchizedek. A tithe is not rightly given to an idolator.

Although it is true that multiple persons called "gods" are discussed in Genesis and Exodus, with the Hebrew word "Eloheem", there is one Person cited in these books which cannot be found in idolatrous theologies. In the earliest books of the Bible, in Hebrew, it is "Yahweh Eloheem"; in English it is usually, somewhat poorly, translated to "Lord God". I would suggest that the best rendering in English, is probably "Lord of the Eloheem". This is identical in grammatical pattern to "Melech Yisroel", which is rendered "King of Israel". It is useful to know that this word "Eloheem" can be translated fairly well to all of "God", "gods", and "angels".

I speak hebrew, and Eloheim is the plural of El (God). It commonly is used when talking about angels, or angelic beings. The way king james translated the torah into english, is eroneous. The torah does not accept the existence of other gods. Its just been mistranslated. (In reference to the person who you were adressing). Also Jehova isnt the name of god. It was a mistranslation by a german scholar, of the hebrew YHVH. No one knows how to pronounce that name of god anymore. Jewish tradition teaches you shouldnt even try to figure it out. Only the high priest on yom kippur could say it, and under certain conditions. Its gods True name. The Ineffable name. After I am done getting my diploma, I am going to catholic seminary to become a priest. I am a bit of a religious scholar. Just thought Id throw that out there.

God Bless,

SMM

 

[IXOYE<><]

I am not sure how to answer this. But, I like Serapha's answer best.

 

[cookiebaker]

my honest answer also is...I dont really know why. My own thoughts are that God had to choose where his Son would come from, or be born into rather.
also, it does seem that God loves all people, but I am not sure if he loves Israel more, or they are like his true children? I really dont know for sure...bc the Bible does say goign way back that Israel is his beloved, that he will always watch over Israel, that although they rejected him in large part he will not give up on them ever. I disagree with those who say Israel is no different than any land..it's clear God has his eye on them, and has helped them prevail over much larger enemies. It also says he will bless the nations of the world through them, and I am not saying nobody else IS blessed, but in my own experience, almost anytime I had a Jewish friend, doctor, or wahtever, that somehnow I am blessed by the interaction. That may sound simplisitc, obviousy there are bad Jewish people, but overall, imy own experience it bears out.

I do believe that God loves any person r egardless of their race, so it's not that he is indifferent to non-Jews, not at all...but there is some plan for his people and that land

 

[Nimrauko]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people

That is a good place to read up and familiarize yourself with the thoughts behind the "Jews being a chosen people".

Hope that helps

God Bless,
SMM

 

[visionary]

I believe it was because of the people within the tribe of Israel that were faithful through the ages and that was what God encouraged.

There was only one tribe of people who had enough people within the tribe who were true to God and worshipped Him who created the earth and kept the story alive through the telling of the events that occurred over time. These were written in the book and taught to their grandchildren who taught it to their children.

They were identified by the God they worshipped as they moved around the countries. Their style, lifestyle, and steadfastness to God, was rewarded. Because they became the only tribe on earth that still worshipped the one true God, God honored them above all nations with more blessings and promises of more blessings if they remain faithful, and troubles if they fall into the ways of the pagens around them.

We read it like they were isolated and God only communicated with them. But it is not so, for God has said that all nations know of Him.

Ex 9:1 Then ADONAI said to Moshe, "Go to Pharaoh, and tell him, 'Here is what ADONAI, the God of the Hebrews, says: "Let my people go, so that they can worship me.

Maybe not knowing Him as the chosen people do, but it wasn't for a lack of trying on God's part. When Ninevah was visted by a prophet of God, they repented... so obviously they had some knowledge of the one true God.

 

[GodsBelovedAngel]

Ischus put it simply the best~~~~>He is not biased. The only reason that he chose a specific people was first of all to have a tangible line for the Messiah to come from, and also because the Jews were one of the few groups of people who ever allowed God to use them to reveal more of His word, his Will, his character, etc

 

[AformerChristian]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

I agree with you kau2u. Majority of population are unchosen. Seems so unfair.

 

[visionary]

Ischus put it simply the best~~~~>He is not biased. The only reason that he chose a specific people was first of all to have a tangible line for the Messiah to come from, and also because the Jews were one of the few groups of people who ever allowed God to use them to reveal more of His word, his Will, his character, etc

It was not so much that God wouldn't have all the nations of the earth worship Him, it was that a remnant of believers was all that was left. The Israelites may have done a poor job of obeying God, but there was always a remnant among them that were true followers and it kept the faith alive.

Many nations of this earth do not want to be identified as God's people. Take a look at what is happening in the USA. If it were possible, there are groups actively working on getting "in God we trust" off of our currency. They are working on getting any semblence of the Ten Commandments off the government buildings, and off the law books. They are trying to keep people from praying to God publically. Right now, the believers are holding the line and calling on the government to keep the faith. Our nation's blessings come from our relationship with God. If we do not learn the same lessons that the Israelites went through, we will experience the captivity of spiritual babylon, eqypt and sodom.

 

[dialee16]

I'll state my beleifs about this thread. I think some of it has to do with the last days of earth. Becuase of the way things went, a lot of jews rejected jesus, and will be left behind when the rapture occcurs. After the rapture, the antichrist will decive earth, and the Jews will relize what a mistake they made. The Jews will stand up to the antichrist and continue worshiping the true god.

The other posters on this thread made some good points to.

 

[OzSpen]

I agree with you kau2u. Majority of population are unchosen. Seems so unfair.

If by "chosen" it is believed that only a certain smallish section of humanity is forced to believe, I would agree that that would be "unfair."

That is a Calvinistic view with which the Bible and most of church history disagrees. Except for the later writings of St. Augustine, who concluded that people were forced to believe because they were elected/chosen, most of the leading Christian thinkers up to the time of the Reformation believed that people had the choice to believe or not believe, even in their fallen, sinful state.

Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) is but one example. He stated: "God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall certainly be punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably (wicked), but not because God created them so. So if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God" (Dialogue, CXLI).

In fact, St. Augustine (AD 354-430), in an early work, wrote that "free will, naturally assigned by the creator to our rational soul, is such a neutral power, as can either incline toward faith, or turn toward unbelief" (On the Spirit and the Letter, 58).

The Scriptures are clear that God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4). All human beings are made with the ability to say, "Yes," or, "No," to God's offer of salvation. God in his foreknowledge knew who would respond to the Gospel offer and elected them to salvation.

Why won't most people desire God's salvation when the Gospel is proclaimed? God will not force anybody to love and serve Him. The human rebellious nature causes people to choose rebellion against God rather than to bow the knee and serve Him. "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick [wicked]. Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

There is nothing unfair in this understanding of God's election. His offer of salvation is made to all but we are chosen, based on how we respond to God when the Gospel is proclaimed to us.

For a fuller understanding of this perspective, I'd recommend a read of Norman Geisler 1999, Chosen But Free, Bethany House Publishers.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

The question is, who defines what is "fair" and acceptable and good?

I would suggest that, according to God, He is the only one who is good.

J.E.B.

 

[OzSpen]

J.E.B. You stated

The question is, who defines what is "fair" and acceptable and good?

I would suggest that, according to God, He is the only one who is good.

I agree wholeheartedly. The idea being debated here seems to be: Is God fair when he decrees that only a small section of humanity can be chosen for Israel and then to be Christian?"

Do you believe that God elects most of humanity to damnation and a smaller group to eternal life? Is that your view?

 

[Henaynei]

the election was not about salvation ... it was about being given the responsibility of carrying His Torah, preserving it and obeying it.... from the beginning anyone who chose to obey Torah was "saved" -by the very words of Torah NONE could be excluded who submitted to G-d's instruction and commandments ... to have a relationship with G-d one has to do it G-d's way - that is the message of Torah and the "New Testament"

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

The idea being debated here seems to be: Is God fair when he decrees that only a small section of humanity can be chosen for Israel and then to be Christian?"

I do not know the meaning of this word "fair". Can you expand?

Do you believe that God elects most of humanity to damnation and a smaller group to eternal life? Is that your view?

My view is that all things written which God Himself is quoted as saying, as quoted within Holy Scripture (consisting of Genesis through Revelation as extant when Revelation was first written), are true.

There are verses which appear to require the belief that you are asking about above. There are verses which appear otherwise. I shall not argue with men and women; I shall devote myself simply to agreeing, believing, and loving in all the things God Himself has said as quoted within His Holy Scripture. I shall not argue with men and women concerning stances and beliefs in which men and women combine things God has said in ways that God has not said them, and label the combinations either "obvious" and "certain" and "essential", or "unfair", "idiotic", "intolerant", or "old-fashioned". Thus I shall devote myself to the pure truth of God, and not to that which is not holy.

J.E.B.

 

[visionary]

Since the Kingdom of Heaven is what we think of as Jewish in flavor with its sabbath keeping, feasts keeping and abiding by God's rules, everyone who is uncomfortable with that will have difficulty with the chosen ... because they chose to follow what God asked of them, even if they did it poorly.

 

[AformerChristian]

If by "chosen" it is believed that only a certain smallish section of humanity is forced to believe, I would agree that that would be "unfair."

That is a Calvinistic view with which the Bible and most of church history disagrees. Except for the later writings of St. Augustine, who concluded that people were forced to believe because they were elected/chosen, most of the leading Christian thinkers up to the time of the Reformation believed that people had the choice to believe or not believe, even in their fallen, sinful state.

Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) is but one example. He stated: "God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall certainly be punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably (wicked), but not because God created them so. So if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God" (Dialogue, CXLI).

In fact, St. Augustine (AD 354-430), in an early work, wrote that "free will, naturally assigned by the creator to our rational soul, is such a neutral power, as can either incline toward faith, or turn toward unbelief" (On the Spirit and the Letter, 58).

The Scriptures are clear that God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:4). All human beings are made with the ability to say, "Yes," or, "No," to God's offer of salvation. God in his foreknowledge knew who would respond to the Gospel offer and elected them to salvation.

Why won't most people desire God's salvation when the Gospel is proclaimed? God will not force anybody to love and serve Him. The human rebellious nature causes people to choose rebellion against God rather than to bow the knee and serve Him. "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick [wicked]. Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

There is nothing unfair in this understanding of God's election. His offer of salvation is made to all but we are chosen, based on how we respond to God when the Gospel is proclaimed to us.

For a fuller understanding of this perspective, I'd recommend a read of Norman Geisler 1999, Chosen But Free, Bethany House Publishers.

soooooo complicated! I look at this world, and it's so butifully simple... God the Creator, I mean the real one, not the one out of the Bible, wouldn't need a 'chosen' people. He's chosen all. Even the American Indians. Even Australian aborigens. Even the Africans. Even the Asians. And so on. Not just the small amount of the Jews.

The modern Western mentality, alas, is very, very narrow.

ALL THE WORLD IS CHOSEN, EVERY PERSON WHO EVER LIVED.

God chose us to live, to be happy, all of us, if he exists.

Otherwise, it is not a God, maybe some bad spirit.