Water into Wine.

[DiscipleDave]

Now we know, Wine the longer it is aged the better it will taste. So then the older that it is, the better it is.

Now in the Miracle where Jesus turned water into wine, it was not bad wine, but was the best wine, therefore aged, old. consider the verses:

Jn:2:9: When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10: And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Now then here is the Question, if Jesus can instantly make wine that is OLD, that is to say well AGED. How is it a great thing that God can create the EArth and all things thereon in 6 days, that in every way appears to be old and aged, yet are days old?

Jesus in a matter of seconds created a wine that was seconds old, but in every way tasted as AGED wine.

There are two types of people in this world concerning this topic, Those who believe the Words of God and what they say ( creationist ) and those who doubt what the Words of God say. ( Evolutionist )

Scriptures teach the Earth was created in 6 days, you either believe God or you believe men. It is that simple.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Mallon]

Would an earth designed with meteor craters, dinosaur fossils, and high isotope daughter product ratios necessarily make it better, though?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Would an earth designed with meteor craters, dinosaur fossils, and high isotope daughter product ratios necessarily make it better, though?

The earth was not created with fossils already in it, fossils are created by whatever is creating the fossil. Dinosaurs were alive and living, then die, then covered, then fossil. but in the creation of the Earth fossils were not here.

Sorry if i did not understand you question

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ

DiscipleDave

^i^

 

[Jase]

Now we know, Wine the longer it is aged the better it will taste. So then the older that it is, the better it is.

Typically, yes.

Now in the Miracle where Jesus turned water into wine, it was not bad wine, but was the best wine, therefore aged, old. consider the verses:

You're assuming the wine Jesus made was actually aged. Maybe Jesus just made really really good young wine?

Now then here is the Question, if Jesus can instantly make wine that is OLD, that is to say well AGED. How is it a great thing that God can create the EArth and all things thereon in 6 days, that in every way appears to be old and aged, yet are days old?

Because God would have had to not only create the Earth to appear old, but he would have had to create it with history. It's known as the Omphalos argument. Was Adam created with a belly button and scars and wrinkles as though he had had a history?

There are two types of people in this world concerning this topic, Those who believe the Words of God and what they say ( creationist ) and those who doubt what the Words of God say. ( Evolutionist )

This is a false dichotomy. The Bible never says what creationists claim it does. Did it ever occur to you that Hebrew reads much differently than English? What version are you basing your viewpoint on again?, oh yeah, the English.

Scriptures teach the Earth was created in 6 days, you either believe God or you believe men. It is that simple.

I will trust the physical evidence in God's creation before I will fall for the lie that is creationism again.

 

[Jase]

The earth was not created with fossils already in it, fossils are created by whatever is creating the fossil. Dinosaurs were alive and living, then die, then covered, then fossil. but in the creation of the Earth fossils were not here.

Sorry if i did not understand you question

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ

DiscipleDave

^i^

Dinosaurs were killed by an asteroid. There have been thousands of asteroid and meteor impacts on Earth. There have been 5 mass extinctions in Earth's history, 2 of which wiped out almost all life on Earth, including 90% of Sea life. Good luck fitting that into a literal reading of Genesis.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Typically, yes.

You're assuming the wine Jesus made was actually aged. Maybe Jesus just made really really good young wine?

WINE, in and of itself is old, else it would be grape juice, know you not the fermenting process???

Because God would have had to not only create the Earth to appear old, but he would have had to create it with history.

Why? i mean why would the Earth HAVE to have history, as everyone says it would? If God created a tree by merely saying " Tree ", and in every way it appeared to be hundreds of years old, and has over 300 rings if examined, does it need History?

It's known as the Omphalos argument. Was Adam created with a belly button and scars and wrinkles as though he had had a history?

Again, do not understand why one must be created with History. If God created Adam as a man, HE HAD NO HISTORY OF CHILDHOOD. Do not understand the logic associated with this thinking. If something is created instantly why does it need history?

This is a false dichotomy. The Bible never says what creationists claim it does.

The Bible that the Lord in Heaven gave us common, simple folks to follow, does. It says that God created the Earth in 6 days, and guess what, i know He did, and can do exactly that, i am sorry you do not feel that God can do this as He said He did. i am more sorry that you have no guidence to what is the Truth. i mean, if you do nto believe in Faith the Words that God gave us English speaking people today, then how will you learn the Truth? Must you become learned in order to know the Truth, or does the Holy Ghost reveal to whom He wills to know the Truth?

Did it ever occur to you that Hebrew reads much differently than English? What version are you basing your viewpoint on again?, oh yeah, the English.

i am basing what i know, because it is what Jesus told me. That is what i believe, and it just so happens to coincide with His Words

I will trust the physical evidence in God's creation before I will fall for the lie that is creationism again.

And therein shows where your Faith is, it is in evidence, and proof, not in Faith.

Heb:11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But you are a witness against your own self, saying that you trust in the physical evidence, and will not merely believe what it says, therefore you altogether lack Faith that what it says is True, You are one that needs evidence.

Do you believe in Christ ? What physical evidence do you have? Or do you believe some parts, without physical evidence, while requiring physical evidence on other parts ? The very book that teaches you about Christ, teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days, Do you then pick and choose what parts you want to believe without evidence, and what parts you will believe because of physical evidence.
As for me and my family we believe everything in Scriptures, not needing any proof at all, we merely believe it because it is the Words of God, and God counts that towards us as righteousness by Faith.
You go ahead and believe the physical evidence, i will go ahead and believe God and His Words. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Mallon]

The earth was not created with fossils already in it, fossils are created by whatever is creating the fossil. Dinosaurs were alive and living, then die, then covered, then fossil. but in the creation of the Earth fossils were not here

But how can you tell?
You are arguing that Earth's geology was created with age -- a "false history," if you will. (Many will also argue the same for starlight in transit.)
You are also arguing that the fossils of the earth were once living -- a "real history."
So how do you objectively distinguish between "false history" and "real history"?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Dinosaurs were killed by an asteroid. There have been thousands of asteroid and meteor impacts on Earth. There have been 5 mass extinctions in Earth's history, 2 of which wiped out almost all life on Earth, including 90% of Sea life. Good luck fitting that into a literal reading of Genesis.

i do not understand why you think that all this that you mentioned belongs in Genesis. There was this one time that a T-rex stepped on a turtle and smashed it to smithereens, although this happened, it is not written in Genesis. Although there have been thousands of asroides that have hit the planet, what does that have to do with Genesis? There were 5 mass extinctions in Earths History, what does that have to do with Genesis, and why does Genesis have to mention those things? know you not there were many things that happened to the Earth, that is not recorded in Genesis, What is recorded in Genesis is for our Salvation and Faith, The Earth being hit by many astroids is irelevent to my salvation and my Faith, therefore no need to mention that in Genesis. So i do not see why there is a need to fit that in the literal reading of Genesis, So then please tell me why you think it is relevant?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Jase]

WINE, in and of itself is old, else it would be grape juice, know you not the fermenting process???

Grapes ferment in a couple days. Not really "old".

Why? i mean why would the Earth HAVE to have history, as everyone says it would? If God created a tree by merely saying " Tree ", and in every way it appeared to be hundreds of years old, and has over 300 rings if examined, does it need History?

It by definition has history. 300 riings means it's gone through 300 growth cycles, with climate change patterns recorded in those rings. The Earth has tons of history. It has meteor impacts, scars, plate tectonics, mountains, sedimentary rock layers with fossils not sorted by water.

Again, do not understand why one must be created with History. If God created Adam as a man, HE HAD NO HISTORY OF CHILDHOOD. Do not understand the logic associated with this thinking. If something is created instantly why does it need history?

It doesn't need history. But the Earth has history. What we are saying is your claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, despite billions of years worth of history marking its surface is the equivalent of God creating Adam out of dust instantly, and giving him a belly button, scars, and wrinkles despite him never being born, never being cut or injured, and never aging.

The Bible that the Lord in Heaven gave us common, simple folks to follow, does. It says that God created the Earth in 6 days, and guess what, i know He did, and can do exactly that, i am sorry you do not feel that God can do this as He said He did. i am more sorry that you have no guidence to what is the Truth. i mean, if you do nto believe in Faith the Words that God gave us English speaking people today, then how will you learn the Truth? Must you become learned in order to know the Truth, or does the Holy Ghost reveal to whom He wills to know the Truth?

God didn't give us the Bible, man did. God also never says the Earth was created in 6 24 hour human days, 6000 years ago. All of this is a modern invention of Young Earth Creationists. Christians like Aquinas and Augustine and Galileo did not believe what you believe. Are you claiming they were less Christian then you? Augustine even ridiculed creationists for making Christianity look so stupid by holding to a literal Genesis.

i am basing what i know, because it is what Jesus told me. That is what i believe, and it just so happens to coincide with His Words

Well, since Genesis was written in Hebrew poetry, which does not translate the same way in English, you aren't basing it on what you know, you're basing it on what other creationists tell you, and a false interpretation of the text. Jesus never said any of what you believe about Genesis was literal.

Do you believe in Christ ? What physical evidence do you have? Or do you believe some parts, without physical evidence, while requiring physical evidence on other parts ? The very book that teaches you about Christ, teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days, Do you then pick and choose what parts you want to believe without evidence, and what parts you will believe because of physical evidence.
As for me and my family we believe everything in Scriptures, not needing any proof at all, we merely believe it because it is the Words of God, and God counts that towards us as righteousness by Faith.
You go ahead and believe the physical evidence, i will go ahead and believe God and His Words. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I'm on the verge of not believing anymore, but that's beside the point. And your last line is so indicative of the creationist mentality. You are aware that it is against board rules to claim someone isn't saved right? Saying we will be weeping and gnashing teeth is blatantly claiming Theistic evolutionists aren't saved because they don't follow your viewpoint.

 

[DiscipleDave]

But how can you tell?
You are arguing that Earth's geology was created with age -- a "false history," if you will. (Many will also argue the same for starlight in transit.)
You are also arguing that the fossils of the earth were once living -- a "real history."
So how do you objectively distinguish between "false history" and "real history"?

Can God create a Tree, by merely saying "Tree" ? Yes or no ?

If then God is able to create a full grown Tree by merely His Word, why then is it false history? It is false History because that is what you say. But Here is the History, it is written that God made that Tree, therefore NO HISTORY NEEDED, only those who seek PROOF, need the history, and if there is no history they holler, false History. Lets just assume for a moment, if you are able to do so, that God, The most powerful being in the Universe, creator of All things visible and invisible, created this planet in 6 days, with trees, plants, animals and everything on the Earth, remember just try to assume this for a moment, that He actually did what He says He did in His Words, Why is this so hard of a thing to imagine for you ????????? Why doubt ??????? If He did exactly as He says He did and created the EArth in 6 days, and this is written ( WRITTEN, WHICH IS HISTORY ), why then do you say it is false history if He did in fact do exactly what He said He did.
funny thing here, for over Six thousand Years, the Earth being created in 6 days was HIstorically taught to all peoples, even the children Historically learned this, and EVERYONE, even the Disciples of Jesus Christ, believed it Historically, they all believed without any doubts whatsoever that the 6 day created was a, listen to this now, a Historical Fact, a Historical Truth, leave it to this wicked and perverse generation of the Last Days to say and teach and think otherwise, calling all those who lived in the past for 6000 years LIARS, that they did not have the Truth, that for some reason the Truth was only revealed to the LAST DAY generation. lol
Give me a break, i choose to believe the Words of God, i choose to believe the Disciples, i choose to believe, well, Everyone in that last past 6000 years.
What then, should i believe God and His Words or men and there supposed evidence? easy, i choose to believe God and His Words, and it will be counted unto me as righteousness through Faith.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Jase]

i do not understand why you think that all this that you mentioned belongs in Genesis. There was this one time that a T-rex stepped on a turtle and smashed it to smithereens, although this happened, it is not written in Genesis. Although there have been thousands of asroides that have hit the planet, what does that have to do with Genesis? There were 5 mass extinctions in Earths History, what does that have to do with Genesis, and why does Genesis have to mention those things? know you not there were many things that happened to the Earth, that is not recorded in Genesis, What is recorded in Genesis is for our Salvation and Faith, The Earth being hit by many astroids is irelevent to my salvation and my Faith, therefore no need to mention that in Genesis. So i do not see why there is a need to fit that in the literal reading of Genesis, So then please tell me why you think it is relevant?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

Um, it's relevant because it poses a glaring problem. If evolution is false, and humans existed at the beginning of Earth's history 6000 years ago, how did humans survive thousands of asteroid impacts, and 5 mass extinctions that wiped out almost all life? There was only 1 Ark at 1 point in time, not thousands of Arks. And since 90% of all life was exterminated more than once, how did that life repopulate the Earth without evolution?

 

[DiscipleDave]

It by definition has history. 300 riings means it's gone through 300 growth cycles, with climate change patterns recorded in those rings. The Earth has tons of history. It has meteor impacts, scars, plate tectonics, mountains, sedimentary rock layers with fossils not sorted by water.

Historically speaking people can't walk on water, but Jesus did, do you belive He did or didn't because of History?

 

[DiscipleDave]

It doesn't need history. But the Earth has history. What we are saying is your claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old, despite billions of years worth of history marking its surface is the equivalent of God creating Adam out of dust instantly, and giving him a belly button, scars, and wrinkles despite him never being born, never being cut or injured, and never aging.

Tell me, i have a scar on my leg, how long ago did i recieve that scar, can you tell me ? you can guess.
A astroid crater impact in on the EArth, how long ago did it take place, can you tell me ? you can guess.
You says, despite billions of years of markings on this earth, tell me then which marking is that? tell me if you are able to do so, what marking on the EArth says billions of years old ? and how did they come up with estimation, and tell me, how that estimation is NEVER wrong ?
My point is this, what people say is a billion year marking on the earth, may not be billions of years at all, but may be 5000 years old. What carbon 14 dating, take my bone right now and carbon 14 date it, and i assure you even though it is under 50 years old, carbon 14 will put it at around 300 years old, carbon 14 is flawed and is not accurate, you can measure the same item several times and get several answers none of them being the same, so then it is Flawed, not to mention the air was entirely different then it is now, 4000 years ago, which carbon dating only works accurately if the air was the same today as it has been for billions of years, and it was not the same.
So then if you would be so kind tell me of one of these markings that humans say is billions of years old, and how did they determine it was billions of years old, by what methods did they use, else are you merely believing them because they said so?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Well, since Genesis was written in Hebrew poetry, which does not translate the same way in English, you aren't basing it on what you know, you're basing it on what other creationists tell you, and a false interpretation of the text. Jesus never said any of what you believe about Genesis was literal.

What i know, is what Jesus told me, because i asked Him. Therefore if you will not hear me, you will not hear Him either, for it is He who has told me these things, and i do not lie.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

I'm on the verge of not believing anymore, but that's beside the point. And your last line is so indicative of the creationist mentality. You are aware that it is against board rules to claim someone isn't saved right? Saying we will be weeping and gnashing teeth is blatantly claiming Theistic evolutionists aren't saved because they don't follow your viewpoint.

you do error in saying that i have said anyone is not Saved, and by saying there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, this does not mean they will be doing so because they are not Saved based on what they believe is the Truth or not the Truth, i have not did this evil thing that you have said that i did, for i do not do anything that is contrary to my Master Jesus Christ, i do not knowingly and willingly commit any sin that is against Christ:

1Jn:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Now i have said if you will not hear me, you will not hear Him, for it is He that is in me that has told me these things, therefore it is not i that says them, but Him, if then you will not believe Christ, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Um, it's relevant because it poses a glaring problem. If evolution is false, and humans existed at the beginning of Earth's history 6000 years ago, how did humans survive thousands of asteroid impacts, and 5 mass extinctions that wiped out almost all life? There was only 1 Ark at 1 point in time, not thousands of Arks. And since 90% of all life was exterminated more than once, how did that life repopulate the Earth without evolution?

That is how, look above at the underlining of your own words, they were never altogether entirely wiped out, but almost, therefore some remained.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Jase]

That is how, look above at the underlining of your own words, they were never altogether entirely wiped out, but almost, therefore some remained.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

And how do we have so much diversity of life on Earth, if 90% of all life went extinct without evolution? In other words, if 90% of the Earth's "kinds" went extinct, how did we get them back?

 

[Jase]

Tell me, i have a scar on my leg, how long ago did i recieve that scar, can you tell me ? you can guess.
A astroid crater impact in on the EArth, how long ago did it take place, can you tell me ? you can guess.
You says, despite billions of years of markings on this earth, tell me then which marking is that? tell me if you are able to do so, what marking on the EArth says billions of years old ? and how did they come up with estimation, and tell me, how that estimation is NEVER wrong ?
My point is this, what people say is a billion year marking on the earth, may not be billions of years at all, but may be 5000 years old. What carbon 14 dating, take my bone right now and carbon 14 date it, and i assure you even though it is under 50 years old, carbon 14 will put it at around 300 years old, carbon 14 is flawed and is not accurate, you can measure the same item several times and get several answers none of them being the same, so then it is Flawed, not to mention the air was entirely different then it is now, 4000 years ago, which carbon dating only works accurately if the air was the same today as it has been for billions of years, and it was not the same.
So then if you would be so kind tell me of one of these markings that humans say is billions of years old, and how did they determine it was billions of years old, by what methods did they use, else are you merely believing them because they said so?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

Carbon 14 isn't used to date the Earth. It only can date up to 50,000 years. There are numerous other forms of radiometric dating that are used to date the Earth. Meteorites that have hit the Earth are what are dated to 4.5 billion years old. You might have a point about 1 method of dating the Earth being error prone, if that's all that was used. But there is countless evidence attesting to the old age of the Earth. To claim that every field of science is wrong is absurd.

And you have a bigger problem to deal with when it comes to the age of the universe. We can observe stars 13 billion light years away.

 

[gluadys]

Tell me, i have a scar on my leg, how long ago did i recieve that scar, can you tell me ? you can guess.

Not over the internet, no. But if I were a doctor who had knowledge of how scars heal, and if I examined you personally, I could make a good estimate of how long ago you received the scar.

A astroid crater impact in on the EArth, how long ago did it take place, can you tell me ? you can guess.

More than guess. A geologist can date an crater impact fairly accurately.

You says, despite billions of years of markings on this earth, tell me then which marking is that? tell me if you are able to do so, what marking on the EArth says billions of years old ? and how did they come up with estimation, and tell me, how that estimation is NEVER wrong ?

How much time do you have? There is an awful lot to cover. Most people take several years of university level education to become knowledgeable about the evidence.

My point is this, what people say is a billion year marking on the earth, may not be billions of years at all, but may be 5000 years old.

And if you can provide evidence of this, you would be a candidate for a Nobel Prize. Meanwhile, there is no reason not to go with the estimate current data suggests.

What carbon 14 dating, take my bone right now and carbon 14 date it, and i assure you even though it is under 50 years old, carbon 14 will put it at around 300 years old, carbon 14 is flawed and is not accurate,

That is not evidence it is flawed. It is evidence it is being used improperly. You cannot get an accurate radio-carbon date of anything still alive.

not to mention the air was entirely different then it is now, 4000 years ago,

Scripture doesn't tell you that. Science doesn't tell you that. What makes you think that is true?

 

[Mallon]

Can God create a Tree, by merely saying "Tree" ? Yes or no ?

Sure. But if God can create a tree merely by speaking the words, then surely he can create a fully-functional universe without having to inject signs of ageing, too. But, as you admit, He did. According to you, He created trees with growth rings. So the question is: "Why?" Surely God could have created perfect trees with but one growth ring.

Give me a break, i choose to believe the Words of God

Yeah. Everything except Matthew 7:1, right?