Water into Wine.

[DiscipleDave]

Mallon says and asks >>> Sure. But if God can create a tree merely by speaking the words, then surely he can create a fully-functional universe without having to inject signs of ageing, too. But, as you admit, He did. According to you, He created trees with growth rings. So the question is: "Why?" Surely God could have created perfect trees with but one growth ring. <<<

I answered this question directly more than 10 days ago, Dave. My answer is here. There is no need to continue repeating yourself.

Now I hope you will reciprocate and kindly answer the question I asked in the same post.

Do i know the mind of God ? How can i answer a question as to why He does what He does ? i am not God, nor do i know His mind. why He created the Earth in 6 days, i know not, the reason WHY, i only know He did. i know that He did create the earth in 6 days, because that is what He said He did, as to Why He did it, i know not, nor do i question His motives behind what He does, He is God, and we, should not question Him at all.

My Question can God make a full-grown tree? is a question of His power, Can He or can't He ? yes He can make a full grown tree, He is God. Now as to your question " Why would He " i know not, nor do i question Him and what He does, i merely believe what He says, even as Abraham took his only son to be sacrificed, Did he question God? No, but obediently took his own son to be sacrificed, no questioning at all. Did Noah question Him? But he also did what He told him to do. If then God says in His own Word that He left for His children, that He created the Earth in 6 days, i believe it, i do not question Him as to why He would do this thing, therefore i cannot answer your question as to WHY? ask Him yourself, why He created the Earth in 6 days, exactly like He said He did. i will not answer for God.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[Deamiter]

Scriptures is to be read literally unless the immediate text clearly indicates otherwise ( ie a parable )

Ah, an utterly unbiblical hermeneutic. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible even remotely suggesting that it is all historical unless clearly labeled otherwise.

The Bible teaches that the earth was created in six days within a mythological construct paralleling other ancient near east religions in order to show how God created each of the realms of the other ancient near eastern gods in the order of their importance.

This in no way indicates that God actually created the earth in six days any more than John 15 indicates that Jesus is actually a vine.

I actually find it interesting that you claim John 15 was a parable as nothing in the text indicates that this passage is not to be taken literally!

Your utterly inconsistant hermeneutic reveals the true source of your interpretation. It's interesting that you say you don't know the mind of God, yet you are so sure which passages should be interpreted literally (even when there is no indication in the text as we've just shown).

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Scriptures is to be read literally unless the immediate text clearly indicates otherwise ( ie a parable )

chapter and verse which unequivically says this please?

Not to mention, of course, that very rarely does it specifically say when we are to take anything as parabel and anything as historical fact... its pretty much all open to interpretation

 

[lucaspa]

Do i know the mind of God ? How can i answer a question as to why He does what He does ? i am not God, nor do i know His mind. why He created the Earth in 6 days, i know not, the reason WHY, i only know He did. i know that He did create the earth in 6 days, because that is what He said He did, as to Why He did it, i know not, nor do i question His motives behind what He does, He is God, and we, should not question Him at all.

There are three problems here:

1. God didn't say He created the heavens and the earth in 6 days -- men did.

2. In Genesis 2:4, scripture says God created the heavens and the earth in one day, when you read the Hebrew.

3. If God could have created the universe to look as young as it is -- and He could -- then if God created it to look old (which you say it is not), then God is deceiving us. Judeo-Christianity cannot tolerate God being a deceiver. After all, if God deceives us here, He could deceive us anywhere, including areas where we must trust Him absolutely -- such as salvation.

In trying to save young earth creationism, what you end up doing is destroying Christianity!

This was recognized by Christians as soon as the Appearance of Age argument was first made. You need to know the history. Look at the part I bolded:

In 1844 a pamphlet entitled Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation, espousing an evolutionary viewpoint, was published. In response Philip Gosse, a minister in the Fundamentalist group called the Plymouth Brethren, wrote Oomphalos, published in 1857. In it Gosse made the first written argument that creation only LOOKS old. In it, Gosse even argued that Adam and Eve had navels because that is what one would expect in God-created creatures.
Gosse expected Oomphalos to be attacked by scientists. What he should have expected, but didn't, was the denunciation by the religious community. Asked to write a review of Oomphalos, his friend Charles Kinglsey, a minister and author of Westward Ho! refused and wrote the following letter to Gosse.
"You have given the 'vestiges of creation theory' [the pamphlet discussed above] the best shove forward which it has ever had. I have a special dislike for that book; but, honestly, I felt my heart melting towards it as I read Oomphalos. Shall I tell you the truth? It is best. Your book is the first that ever made me doubt the doctrine of absolute creation, and I fear it will make hundreds do so. Your book tends to prove this - that if we accept the fact of absolute creation, God becomes God-the-Sometime-Deceiver. I do not mean merely in the case of fossils which pretend to be the bones of dead animals; but in ...your newly created Adam's navel, you make God tell a lie. It is not my reason, but my conscience which revolts here ... I cannot ...believe that God has written on the rocks one enormous and superfluous lie for all mankind. To this painful dilemma you have brought me, and will, I fear, bring hundreds. It will not make me throw away my Bible. I trust and hope. I know in whom I have believed, and can trust Him to bring my faith safe through this puzzle, as He has through others; but for the young I do fear. I would not for a thousand pounds put your book into my children's hands." Garret Hardin, ""Scientific Creationism'" - Marketing Deception as Truth" in Science and Creationism edited by Ashley Montagu, 1982.

I would not, for ANY amount of money, expose anyone's children to the Appearance of Age argument. There are a few other things that would be just as good at driving them away from Christianity, but none that would do so better.

 

[lucaspa]

Why is that the question?
He said He did, why is that not enough?

1. Because Jesus tells us that God didn't write the Bible. Men did. And sometimes they made errors.

2. A literal reading of scripture in Genesis 2:4 says, in Hebrew, that God created the heavens and earth in one day. Therefore, since literal readings contradict, it is a clear sign that a literal reading is not correct.

3. God's Creation is even more God speaking that the Bible. And God says clearly in His Creation that He did not create in 6 days.

You are worshipping a book. You are supposed to be worshipping God.

 

[lucaspa]

Please read Genesis chapter one, or is that chapter removed from the Bible that you read, because the Bible that i read CLEARLY teaches He created the EArth in 6 days, so specific in fact, that He teaches us what He created on which day of the week.

Dave, is Genesis 2 removed from your Bible? Look at the order of creation:

20: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21: And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22: And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23: And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24: And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. [/quote]

You have all flying creatures created on Day 5, then land creatures on Day 6, then humans -- and both men and women are created together! But in Genesis 2 you have a single man created first, THEN birds and land creatures, and then women. So why do you conveniently ignore that sequence?

[/quote]2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[/quote]

Look at what Paul is saying. Is he saying "all scripture is historically accurate"? NO. He is saying all scripture is useful for "instruction in righteousness".

And Genesis 1 is useful for that. In fact, Jesus uses Genesis 1 for that very purpose in Mark 10 and Matthew 19. Jesus reproves the Pharisees because they adhere to Deut 24:1 and allow men to divorce their wives. Jesus corrects this by saying Deut 24:1 is wrong (because Moses wrote it wrong) and instructs them in righteousness in forbidding divorce -- because God created men and women as stated in Genesis 1.

Do you believe All of Scriptures or just parts of it, that you agree with?

"Scriptures" is not capitalized. Scripture is not a god. You make it one. God cannot contradict God, so when God's Creation contradicts our reading of scripture, then our reading of scripture is in error.

You, OTOH, appear to accept "Scripture" as your god. That is violating the First Commandment.

i believe all Scriptures are true, i do not beleive for one second that God would allow me to believe something that is false.

God grants us free-will. So, yes, if you choose to believe what is false, God won't stop you.

Could He not change every single Bible in the Entire world, without our even knowing it was changed?

He could, but it is not necessary. All that is necessary is that His children use a little common sense when reading.

What kind of God would allow HIS BOOK to be corrupted, to be wrong, to be incorrect?

The same loving God that allowed scripture to be misused in the past. Remember, people used scripture to justify slavery, genocide, persecution, racism, etc. Why didn't God correct that? Because He loves us enough to let our lives have meaning, even when that means we go against what He wants.

Has He not power to preserve His Own Word?

I have news for you: the Word is Jesus, not the Bible. Haven't you read John 1?

2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

A very good description of creationism and Biblical literalism.

Let me understand what you are saying here, i am leading people astray because i teach them they should believe what the Scriptures teach ?

You are leading people astray because you are worshipping scripture instead of God. That you capitalize "Scripture" is evidence of this.