Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[lionroar0]

You have a wonderful way of twisting things. It would be HALF brother since they had the SAME mother and diffrent fathers. COME on...at least make sense. It the catholic denomination that tries to twist it to make it say something it doesn't. Just because it doesn't say James t he second..DUH..Jesus was the FIRST born..if there is a first...there is undoubtedly a second?? IF Not, why say first?? COME on....YOU stop adding to scripture. the chuch is the body of believers..NOT the catholic denomination. NO where as CJ has pointed out several times ANY mention of pope, bishops NOT EVEN catholic denomination. GET a grip

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And the word for brother being used is adelphos which could mean cousins. Half brother. Brother. Clansman. Brother in Christ.

Since James is mentoined a brother along with others and sister but none are the Children of Mary then they are either cousins. Half rbothers through St. Joseph, brothers in Christ or clans men/women.

There is the Mystical Church wich is made up of all Christians. It includes all Christians regardless of church affiliation and also it includes those that have died before us.

There is also the Church Militant. That is the visible Church nited in one belive and practice.
I do tno deny the Mystical Chruch but I also do not deny the Church militant.

Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

Is it any wonder why Protestants are seen as "putting Mary down"?
This is WHY. We refuse to Elevate her (giving her glory or going to her as a Mediator to God etc.), and in putting her in her rightful place, and contending against such elevations, it seems as if we don't give her ANY honor or think she's anything special at all.

This is how it happens. John the Baptist is elevated by Jesus too, why is he ignored? I may never understand this.
But, I'll unsubscribe to this thread anyways becuz I'm really done with this obsession on these threads with her.

We don't ignore John the baptist though.. we honor him as Jesus did, as the greatest prophet who was ever born of a woman...

we also say he was 'sinless' as he wa sanctified in Elizabeth's womb at the sound of Mary's voice (who brought Christ to him- Christ presence that Mary brought to him is what sanctified him.)

So yes, he is high up there to us.

Also as long as you know that we go to Mary to intercede for us in prayer, (like the way you ask your freids to intercded for you) not that we go to her to forgive our sins (that is what the term "mediator" in the bible references.)

I respect your position and no...I do not expect you to respect ours, if you disagree, then you do, such is life, but I just want to make sure you realize what we do indeed believe.

It's not that Mary is a goddess and that she has any power to remove our sins. Or that she is who answers our prayer from her own divinity or anything like that.

As long as we are clear on that because they way things have been presented in this thread, it has been very misleading and confusing.

catholics do not worship Mary, no way, no how.

I can't make people understand this, i can't make them believe that we don't. All I can do is keep saying it I guess when we see it implied or when we see how others do not understand our beliefs properly.

And it's IAA who is a SDA who is obsessed with our devotion to Mary. We aren't the ones who open these threads.

It is IAA who wishes to make sure that all of you have the misrepresented 'truth' about us. One must wonder why that is? Why one would be so motivated for other to believe things about us that are not true.

 

[Benedicta00]

where does it say Mary is a mediator? where where where?

i know the Bible says Christ is a mediator... so why should anyone go to Mary?

did Mary just become a mediator because someone decided it was so? because i don't see it anywhere in the Bible...

please see my post above.

 

[Benedicta00]

really? the 2nd one says not to bow down yourselves in front of statues... but i guess no catholic has done that...




don't build any statues of anything in any likeness... did you even bother to read the 1st and 2nd commandment... Exodus 20



i know because i have eyes... where are your Jesus beads? where are your Jesus statues in the church surrounded by candles?

based on observation... i've seen statues of Mary in the car... rosary beads hanging on the rearview... statues in the church... statues in the home... again, i ask... why so much focus on Mary? there is no way in the making and buying of all the Mary periphinalia that Jesus is 100% of the focus... it's not possible...

the Bible never says Mary intercedes on our behalf in heaven... that's not biblical... it does however say Jesus does... so why not ask Him to intercede on your behalf? I'm sure He has more pull than Mary...
if you're going to ask someone to intercede and the head guy says you can come directly to him... why don't you?

but we don't worship them.. we have devotion to them, to the saints and Mary.

Do you believe me? i can't offer you anything more then my word... and documents from the Church that will confirm it.

we are not bowing down to the statue or the image- we are genuflecting, like when a man bows to a lady... it's a gesture, just to show our love and respect for them.

This is the explanation for why we do those crazy things we do. I hope it suffices.

 

[icedtea]

we are not bowing down to the statue or the image- we are genuflecting, like when a man bows to a lady...

Except the lady is there in front of them, breathing.

 

[HisKid1973]

Just what is the catholic version of these verses if I may ask?
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

 

[Benedicta00]

Here is the foundation which is already laid.. 1 Corinthians 3 Not Christ and Mary.. Not Mary being any gate But Christ.

I agree that Christ is the gate in which we enter...

 

[IamAdopted]

.

And the word for brother being used is adelphos which could mean cousins. Half brother. Brother. Clansman. Brother in Christ.

Since James is mentoined a brother along with others and sister but none are the Children of Mary then they are either cousins. Half rbothers through St. Joseph, brothers in Christ or clans men/women.

There is the Mystical Church wich is made up of all Christians. It includes all Christians regardless of church affiliation and also it includes those that have died before us.

There is also the Church Militant. That is the visible Church nited in one belive and practice.
I do tno deny the Mystical Chruch but I also do not deny the Church militant.

Peace

I have given the greek words in an above post.. These tell us the truth of the greek word.. Not someones view of them..

 

[Benedicta00]

Pastors are limited in what they are to preach. They are not allowed to change the scriptures to make them what they want them to say.. The Pope says he is the vicar of Christ.. Pastors say they are the teachers of the scriptures.. Therefore there is a big difference..

Nether is the pope... which is why when he wants to make a dogma- we check with the Early Church...

 

[IamAdopted]

Here is a definition of what you said you were doing..

1. To bend the knee or touch one knee to the floor or ground, as in worship.
2. To be servilely respectful or deferential; grovel.

1. genuflecting

 

[IamAdopted]

why check the early church and not the scriptures?

 

[Benedicta00]

Just what is the catholic version of these verses if I may ask?
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

That the word is hardly exclusive.

I would answer the same way John of Damascus answered in the 7th century.

The ever-virgin One thus remains even after the birth still virgin, having never at any time up till death consorted with a man. For although it is written, And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born Son, yet note that he who is first-begotten is first-born even if he is only-begotten. For the word first-born' means that he was born first but does not at all suggest the birth of others. And the word till' signifies the limit of the appointed time but does not exclude the time thereafter. For the Lord says, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, not meaning thereby that He will be separated from us after the completion of the age. The divine apostle, indeed, says, And so shall we ever be with the Lord, meaning after the general resurrection."
John of Damascus,Orthodox Faith,4:14(A.D. 743),in NPNF2,IX:86

 

[Benedicta00]

Here is a definition of what you said you were doing.. genuflecting[/LIST]

yea- respecting.

 

[Benedicta00]

why check the early church and not the scriptures?

because Tradition and scripture is one.

 

[Benedicta00]

Except the lady is there in front of them, breathing.

So... we are not to respect the dead?

I don't see the bible saying we can't show respect by genuflecting to those who have gone before us.

 

[HisKid1973]

s a SDA who is obsessed with our devotion to Mary.[/b] We aren't the ones who open these threads.

It is IAA who wishes to make sure that all of you have the misrepresented 'truth' about us. One must wonder why that is? Why one would be so motivated for other to believe things about us that are not true.

Double posting somehow..See below

 

[HisKid1973]

s a SDA who is obsessed with our devotion to Mary.[/b] We aren't the ones who open these threads.

It is IAA who wishes to make sure that all of you have the misrepresented 'truth' about us. One must wonder why that is? Why one would be so motivated for other to believe things about us that are not true.

This is a personal attack and is really not necessary, benificial or edifying. After viewing some of these Marian festivals,I happen to agree that it gets obsessive and sure looks like worship to me..

 

[IamAdopted]

Ia any of this true IAA?

No this is not true..I want the truth of Christ to be preached for one reason.. That people may hear and see and read the truth and in doing so may come to the saving knowledge of Christ so they can have fellowship with the Father...

 

[Benedicta00]

This is a personal attack and is really not necessary, benificial or edifying. After viewing some of these Marian festivals,I happen to agree that it gets obsessive and sure looks like worship to me..

That's what I'm saying man...

I hope this is not what IAA is doing- trying to misrepresent Catholics and even Orthodox, for what would he want to do that?

 

[Benedicta00]

No this is not true..I want the truth of Christ to be preached for one reason.. That people may hear and see and read the truth and in doing so may come to the saving knowledge of Christ so they can have fellowship with the Father...

So why bring Catholic teaching into this?

The Church agrees with you... Mary is not our grace, God is. She is not to be worshipped, God is..etc.

Catholics agree with you.. so what "truth" are you trying to get out by posting a phrase that is no more then a figure of speech?

We do not worship Mary- do you believe us, yes or no?