Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[PassthePeace1]

no evidence to suggest this is remotely true. In fact, if you read the bible, you see error springing up in the first century. Which Paul wrote MANY letters to correct.

There is 2000 years of evidence, and you really proved my point...by bringing up Paul. Here we have one of the earliest examples, of the Holy Spirit's protecting the Church from error. We see Paul, correcting, teaching, and praying for those in error....and even necessary disciplinary action, if they fail to make corrections.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Uphill Battle no evidence to suggest this is remotely true. In fact, if you read the bible, you see error springing up in the first century. Which Paul wrote MANY letters to correct.

There is 2000 years of evidence, and you really proved my point...by bringing up Paul. Here we have one of the earliest examples, of the Holy Spirit's protecting the Church from error. We see Paul, correcting, teaching, and praying for those in error....and even necessary disciplinary action, if they fail to make corrections.

What teachings and errors were those?

Hebrew 12:23 to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to a mediator/#3316 mesites of a new covenant--Jesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!

 

[lionroar0]

Yeah, I know. You don't think that wasn't on purpose C.B.?

Regarless of thought. It is the same line of argumentation that atheist use.

Whatever. That's a bunch of bull. Though I'm not surprised. In the last days we are living in teachings such as this will become more and more common. Yeah, I did just say that. And you know something else? I'm not backing down. I'm not wrong in saying what the C.C. teaches is fallacy, because I have found no evidence/proof of what they say anywhere in the Bible. Things such as

But yet proof has been provided. I have see no post from you showing this poor Catholic to prove the Trinity explicitly from Scripture or the Hypostatic union.

Perptual Virginity
Purgatory
Views on Communion
Mary in general
Baptisim of infants... I could go on and on. But I have a life, so I'll stop there.

Lionroar's axioms when debating an educated Catholic.

1. Stick to one subject and try to show the fallacy of that subject till refuted.

2. Change the subject

3. When in doubt read axioms 1-2 wash,rinse,and repeat.


Peace

 

[FrauleinElsa]

I have see no post from you showing this poor Catholic to prove the Trinity explicitly from Scripture or the Hypostatic union.


Lionroar's axioms when debating an educated Catholic.

1. Stick to one subject and try to show the fallacy of that subject till refuted.

2. Change the subject

3. When in doubt read axioms 1-2 wash,rinse,and repeat.


Peace

So...that means I'm an un-educated Protestant? Btw, you're doing the same thing with changing the subject to debate the Trinity, are you not?

 

[Ave Maria]

There is no "source" other than the Father.

There are many methods of conveyance.

Forgive me....

I agree with you.

 

[lionroar0]

So...that means I'm an un-educated Protestant? Btw, you're doing the same thing with changing the subject to debate the Trinity, are you not?

NO I'm using the Trinity as an example to show a double standard.

So...that means I'm an un-educated Protestant?

Nope.

What it means is that there are some protestants who think they know what Catholicism is and try to tell Catholics what it is. When these protestants are met with educated Catholics who can actually defend their position they go crying foul any way that they can.

Such as trying to change the subject or trying to make it personal.

Peace

 

[Nadiine]

I don't understand what's up with the flood of Mary threads in these sections?

As I recall, Jesus said this:

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
​

It would seem to me, that no one is greater than John the Baptist... so why is Mary elevated over John the Baptist? & I didn't notice Mary's name is noted as greatest 'female'.
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Perptual Virginity
Purgatory
Views on Communion
Mary in general
Baptisim of infants... I could go on and on. But I have a life, so I'll stop there.

Jesus alone saves.

(Young) Romans 10:9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved,

(Young) Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Miyka'el, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the Book. [The Book of the Life of the Lamb]

 

[lionroar0]

I don't understand what's up with the flood of Mary threads in these sections?

That's two of us.

As I recall, Jesus said this:

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
​

It would seem to me, that no one is greater than John the Baptist... so why is Mary elevated over John the Baptist? & I didn't notice Mary's name is noted as greatest 'female'.
​

Well Catholics don't say that she is greater then John the baptist. So I have no idea what you mean.

Peace

 

[Uphill Battle]

mayve we played it differently.

indeed.

And as I said I read ever-virgin. We obviously disagree.

yes, becase it doesnt SAY EVER VIRGIN. you are adding your ideology to the text.

to this.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
The Didache also says ever-virgin
between (50-120)
Eusibus Life of contantine book 4 mentions Mary being Ever Virgin 265-340
The Acts of St. Peter of Alxandria Mentions Mary being Ever-Virgin written between 300 and 311 and fragmenst.​

as nobody has denied that by 300 or so AD, people were teaching ever virginity, I'll ignore most of these. Howeer, the Didache (unless there is more than one, and I'm reading a different one) doesn't mention this AT ALL.

or are you talking about the vastly edited copy of st. James divine liturgy?

[/quote=lionroar]

I have already explained this excerpt.​

[/center][/quote]right, but the point was not your explanaition. I demonstrated the ever increasing marian teachings, as time passed.

 

[Uphill Battle]

There is 2000 years of evidence, and you really proved my point...by bringing up Paul. Here we have one of the earliest examples, of the Holy Spirit's protecting the Church from error. We see Paul, correcting, teaching, and praying for those in error....and even necessary disciplinary action, if they fail to make corrections.

some of the error came from supposedly "divine promised not to teach error" Peter.

 

[Uphill Battle]

See other post



Here is the DBL standard. You stated that there is no verse that explicitly states the Trinity just as I said that there is no explicit verse that states that Mary is Ever-Virgin but yet the Trinity is clearly demostrated. Just as I have stated that the Ever-Virginity of Mary is clearly stated.



The same can be said on your view of the Trinity

The only difference is that we both hold to the Trinity.

Peace

I'm sorry, there is NO statment, vague or otherwise, of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Hence, there is no double standard. Again, you only attribute this, because you CANNOT demonstrate your viewpoint in scripture.

 

[Uphill Battle]

That's two of us.



Well Catholics don't say that she is greater then John the baptist. So I have no idea what you mean.

Peace

they don't have to state it. If they believe Mary was sinless, but John the baptist wasn't, then is stands to reason Mary is considered greater.

Despite the words of Christ, mind you.

 

[Nadiine]

That's two of us.

glad I'm not the only one wondering what's the deal with all this?

Well Catholics don't say that she is greater then John the baptist. So I have no idea what you mean.

My whole point is this: if John the Baptist IS greater than Mary, then why aren't they elevating John the Baptist & praying to him for 'intercession'?
I never see any "John the Baptist is HOLY" threads... only Mary given glorification, etc.

 

[Benedicta00]

they don't have to state it. If they believe Mary was sinless, but John the baptist wasn't, then is stands to reason Mary is considered greater.

Despite the words of Christ, mind you.

but we do believe he was sanctified in his mother's womb by Mary's voice.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

but we do believe he was sanctified in his mother's womb by Mary's voice.

Hi. This is the first time I have heard of this.
In what way was Jesus sanctified by Mary's voice in her womb?

 

[PassthePeace1]

some of the error came from supposedly "divine promised not to teach error" Peter.

And the Church was protected from error, wasn't She...that was my point.

 

[Uphill Battle]

but we do believe he was sanctified in his mother's womb by Mary's voice.

interesting opinion on the matter.

 

[Uphill Battle]

And the Church was protected from error, wasn't She...that was my point.

ok... but please demonstrate the promise of freedom from error. It's not in there!

 

[lionroar0]

as nobody has denied that by 300 or so AD, people were teaching ever virginity, I'll ignore most of these. Howeer, the Didache (unless there is more than one, and I'm reading a different one) doesn't mention this AT ALL.

or are you talking about the vastly edited copy of st. James divine liturgy?

Yes it is the Devine Liturgy of St. James. It is lumped together in newadvent as part of the Didache for some reason.

as nobody has denied that by 300 or so AD, people were teaching ever virginity, I'll ignore most of these. Howeer, the Didache (unless there is more than one, and I'm reading a different one) doesn't mention this AT ALL.

I also did a search on Advent on Trinity and the earliest date that I could find comes from Origen 185-232.

Eusibus Life of contantine book 4 mentions Mary being Ever Virgin 265-340. This is the earliest mention of Mary being Ever Virgin that I could find.

Both teachings appear explicitly about the same time.

Peace