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She did. His name was Joseph. I quoted the Scriptures.
There was no adultery with any man.
Thus, there was no violation of her vows with Joseph.
I embrace the Incarnation as a miracle of the Holy Spirt, not as a physical act of intercourse between Mary and a man not her husband.
Well, she was Joseph's wife.
Yes, she said it could all be as the angel said, but the angel said nothing about how she was to withhold intimacies with her husband until she died (or didnt'). The angel said NOTHING remotely about that.
There it is AGAIN.
It does seem to be the real basis of this dogma.
Catholics continually seem to suggest that the loving, mutual sharing of intimacies within the sacred bond of Marriage is somehow sinful or impure or defiles the wife. I find nothing in Scripture to confirm that, and certainly nothing in any text about Mary or Joseph that so indicates.
Yup.
Back to the topic...
Is the loving sharing of ourselves in marriage ever "necessary?" Well, there is that Scripture about not withholding ourselves in this way, but I'll leave that be.
I'm not sure this question forms a substantiation for the dogma that Mary and Joseph never once ever lovingly shared intimacies with each other within the sacred bonds of Marriage after Jesus was born. How a question does that, I don't know.
Sure. But her vow had nothing whatsoever, nothing remotely having to do with the issue of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. And what about her vow to Joseph? She was his wife...
I agree.
So how is it substantiation for the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary?
IMHO, you are getting our positions confused here.
It is MY position that I know NOTHING WHATSOEVER about the surpremely private issue of the sharing of these intimacies between Mary and Joseph after Jesus was born. They may have been frequent in such, they may not have done such at all - ever. I don't know. So, I have no pious opinion, no doctrine, no dogma on that point. I don't know. To be very blunt, I don't care - and I don't consider it any of my business. It's entirely moot anyway. God is understandably and respectfully silent about the extremely private aspect of their marriage - and so am I. I HAVE NO POSITION. No Protestant denomination known to me does.
YOU are the one with the DOGMA here. YOU are the one insisting - as the highest level of certainty and importance - that Mary and Joseph never once ever shared such intimacies. You KNOW that, for a fact, at the highest level of certainty, and it's of the greatest importance to know and believe that. YOU are the one saying you KNOW how often they "did it" (or not) and that it's critical.
I'm NOT speculating about anything.
You are DOGMATICLY stating that they never did.
EXACTLY!
You are far from alone in wondering why your denomination is so very, very interested in how often Mary and Joseph did it after Jesus was born. I think a LOT of people really wonder about that.
Remember: You are the one with the DOGMA, I don't even wish to have a personal opinion about this. I don't even want to speculate on how often my parents or sister and her husband "do it." Why in the world would I care how often Mary and Joseph did it - if at all?
Yeah, I agree. It IS a strange, strange thing.
1. I don't think asking a question provides substantiation for a dogma.
2. Where does the text say Joseph was old?
3. You MUST be aware that men are typically able to have intercourse throughout their entire lives, as are women. Even if Joseph was old (and there's nothing - nothing - in the Bible that so indicates), that would not prove that Mary was a PETPETUAL virgin.
My perspective...
Pax!
- Josiah
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