Prayers to Mary in concerning Matthew

[Forest]

Jesus = God.
Mary = Jesus' Mother.

If Mary is the Mother of Jesus, then Mary is also the Mother of God. It is a syllogism you cannot escape without de-deifying Jesus.

Using logic to define the incarnation or the trinity will get you into trouble.

 

[ScottBot]

Using logic to define the incarnation or the trinity will get you into trouble.

Who is the creator of logic, our brains, and gives us the incentive to use them together?

 

[GregoryTurner]

Who tells us to "lean not on your own understanding" ?

 

[AngCath]

Buzzbee, have you not read in Matthew 22:

"And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Our Blessed Mother and all the saints are alive in Christ praying without ceasing. I invite you to join them in prayer.

 

[leothelioness]

Our Blessed Mother and all the saints are alive in Christ praying without ceasing. I invite you to join them in prayer.

We will gladly join them in prayer, but we won't pray to them.

 

[leothelioness]

Who tells us to "lean not on your own understanding" ?

Good one!

 

[leothelioness]

Jesus = God.
Mary = Jesus' Mother.

If Mary is the Mother of Jesus, then Mary is also the Mother of God. It is a syllogism you cannot escape without de-deifying Jesus.

It's also one you cannot escape without deifying Mary.

 

[leothelioness]

I have no problem with the title "Mother of God." I often use it myself.

But, of course (and as Vatican II affirmed), she is not God. So praying to Mary is not, in any sense, praying to God.

And, of course, such has nothing whatsoever to do with her being born without sin or assuming into heaven upon her death (or not), or her being a PERPETUAL virgin. It just means that Mary is the mother of Jesus who is God.


My $0.01


Pax!


- Josiah



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Your $0.01 was worth a lot.

 

[ScottBot]

We will gladly join them in prayer, but we won't pray to them.

You do realize the the etymological root of pray is to ask, right.

To quote old English literature, "Pray tell me, wherefore art thou?"

Modern English, "May I ask where you are?"

Pray to Mary is not done with the same intent as praying to God. Although they are both petitions for help. A "prayer" to Mary is not unlike asking a friend to pray for you. A prayer to God is a direct plead for help. If its okay to ask other Christians to pray for you, there is nothing wrong with asking Mary or the other saints in heaven, because they are still part of the Church.

 

[leothelioness]

You do realize the the etymological root of pray is to ask, right.

To quote old English literature, "Pray tell me, wherefore art thou?"

Modern English, "May I ask where you are?"

Yes, I am quite familiar with Elizabethan english (it's not old english). But when you apply that to a deity praying is not only asking, but prayer is also intended to be a form of worship and deep spiritual connection to God. Prayer was reserved strictly for communication between God and man. Prayer is something so intimate it is to be shared with no one but God.

Pray to Mary is not done with the same intent as praying to God. Although they are both petitions for help. A "prayer" to Mary is not unlike asking a friend to pray for you. A prayer to God is a direct plead for help. If its okay to ask other Christians to pray for you, there is nothing wrong with asking Mary or the other saints in heaven, because they are still part of the Church.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but what you must know is that in order for a spiritual being (other than God) to be able to hear and answer a prayer requires omnipotence and omniscience and those are powers that are solely attributed to God and His Son.

The saints in heaven have no communication with those in this world. They are disconnected from this world. They hear not and see not the goings on of this world, but simply anticipate the coming of their brethren and wait for the will of God to be done.

 

[Nickolai]

It's also one you cannot escape without deifying Mary.

How in any way does saying she's the Mother of God deify Mary?

What is the definition of Mother to you?

The Websters says "a female parent".

What is a parent to you?

The Websters says "a person who brings up and cares for another". and it's Latin etymological root means "to give birth to"

Was Jesus not God when Mary gave birth to Him? If He wasn't God then when did he become God? Which heretical belief would you subscribe to if that's the case? Sabellianism? Arianism? Either way it's heresy.

You are so caught up in NOT agreeing with the Catholic Church on this that you've thrown out logic and reason (which were given to you by God).

Here's something you may not have heard before. Your mother did not create your person. My mother did not create my person either. Of ALL the people on ALL of these fora, none of our mothers created our persons. God created our persons (He put us together in our mother's womb), but our mothers all gave birth to our persons. In Jesus Christ's case, He was begotten, not created, but the logic still holds true. Mary gave birth to His whole person, she therefore is His parent. And being that she is His female parent, she is His mother. She is the Mother of God.

Reader Nikolai

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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IMHO...


Whether the title "Mother of God" is appropriate for Mary or not is entirely moot to whether it is of highest importance and certainty that Mary and Joseph were deprived of a blessed sharing of intimacies within the sacred bond of Holy Matrimony after Jesus was born.


Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah



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[ScottBot]

Yes, I am quite familiar with Elizabethan english (it's not old english). But when you apply that to a deity praying is not only asking, but prayer is also intended to be a form of worship and deep spiritual connection to God. Prayer was reserved strictly for communication between God and man. Prayer is something so intimate it is to be shared with no one but God.


I understand your viewpoint on this, but what you must know is that in order for a spiritual being (other than God) to be able to hear and answer a prayer requires omnipotence and omniscience and those are powers that are solely attributed to God and His Son.

The saints in heaven have no communication with those in this world. They are disconnected from this world. They hear not and see not the goings on of this world, but simply anticipate the coming of their brethren and wait for the will of God to be done.

According to your theological view. In the view of the traditional Apostolic Churches, the Church consists of the Church Militant (those of us here on earth making our way to heaven) and the Church Triumphant (those who are already there0. We are all part of the Church, and we are all still connected to each other through Christ.

[bible]john 15:1-8[/bible]

As long as we abide in Him we remain grafted to the vine. It says nothing about death separating us from the vine.

 

[leothelioness]

According to your theological view. In the view of the traditional Apostolic Churches, the Church consists of the Church Militant (those of us here on earth making our way to heaven) and the Church Triumphant (those who are already there0. We are all part of the Church, and we are all still connected to each other through Christ.

[bible]john 15:1-8[/bible]

As long as we abide in Him we remain grafted to the vine. It says nothing about death separating us from the vine.

Okay, you COMPLETELY missed my point. Never did I say we were "separated from the vine". Neither are we separated in spirit. We are separated as far as communication goes. We cannot communicate with the spirits of the dead, and they cannot hear, pass on, or answer our prayers. Got it?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

According to your theological view. In the view of the traditional Apostolic Churches, the Church consists of the Church Militant (those of us here on earth making our way to heaven) and the Church Triumphant (those who are already there0. We are all part of the Church, and we are all still connected to each other through Christ.

I, and every Protestant known to me, completely and passionately agrees. (Where we disagree is when thus is subjected to an institutional denominational view that largely contradicts it, but that's a WHOLE other subject for another day and thread)


Now, what does this have to do with Mary?

 

[ScottBot]

I, and every Protestant known to me, completely and passionately agrees. (Where we disagree is when thus is subjected to an institutional denominational view that largely contradicts it, but that's a WHOLE other subject for another day and thread)


Now, what does this have to do with Mary?

Communication with Saints in heaven, of which Mary is one.

 

[ScottBot]

Okay, you COMPLETELY missed my point. Never did I say we were "separated from the vine". Neither are we separated in spirit. We are separated as far as communication goes. We cannot communicate with the spirits of the dead, and they cannot hear, pass on, or answer our prayers. Got it?

You make this statement like its doctrine, which completely contradicts the traditional Apostolic view of the intercommunion between the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant.

If the saints in heaven (the Church Triumphant) are completely oblivious to what is happening to the Church Militant, how would they know what to pray for?

 

[Iollain]

This post is VERY bogus. Mary DID NOT have ANY other children. You hear this nonsense from anti-Catholics or sites that are so. What Bible do you quote from?? Imagine Mary naming one of her kids JUDAS..this approach toward the Catholic faith is what othr faiths are confused about. When people like this come on and defame Our Blessed Mother.
My advice to you is to learn how to pray the Rosary to her,and read all about her apparitons over the centuries.
Jesus was Divine. Her task was to give birth to the Son of God and nothing more. "ALL NATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESS-ED".

It was custom that names stayed in families back then, and Judas was one of them...






Luk 1:59 ¶ And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.


Luk 1:60 And his mother answered and said, Not [so]; but he shall be called John.


Luk 1:61 And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.


Luk 1:62 And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called.


Luk 1:63 And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all.



All nations do call her blessed


and what if the apparitions are demonic?

 

[pgp_protector]

I'm not Catholic , and I don't "ask" non Biological people Living in this Realm people to pray for me, but I'm so getting tired of these threads.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Mary DID NOT have ANY other children.

I guess if you say so, it's unquestionably and infallibly so....


The reality is that God's holy inerrant written Word does not remotely teach this.

You hear this nonsense from anti-Catholics or sites that are so.

I wouldn't know about that, but I do hear this from people who have read the Bible. It says NOTHING about Mary and Joseph's children other than Jesus, and it CERTAINLY says nothing about the number of times that this couple shared sexual intimacies within the loving and sacred bond of the Sacrament of Marriage after Jesus was born.

What Bible do you quote from??

I was about to ask YOU that question, LOL.
What Bible do YOU quote from that says that Mary and Joseph had no other children besides Jesus? And what Bible do you quote from that says that Mary was deprived of the normal, blessed sharing of intimacies within the sacred bond of marriage after Jesus was born?

Her task was to give birth to the Son of God and nothing more .

I think we need to be careful of such potentially defaming remarks. After all, we are to esteem and venerate Our Lady above all, not make such comments.



My perspective.


Pax!


- Josiah



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