If I came to a Babtist church and did the following

[arunma]

Who can claim that Luther?

Well like a good Reformed Protestant, I am of course going to say that God himself determined the canon. But I need not appeal to Martin Luther. Saint Athanasius himself listed a canon that is almost identical to the Protestant canon ("almost" means the only difference was that he put Baruch in the canon and Esther in the Apocrypha).

Where did you get your deuterocanonicals? I've been looking for 'em.

I got mine at Barnes and Noble. Apparently they published the KJV Apocrypha on their own, so I'm sure that any Barnes and Noble store will have it. But be advised: the book is quite minimalist. There's no commentary, no footnotes, and nothing else of that nature. Pretty much all you get is the text of the Apocrypha. But you can't beat $8.95.

Oh wait, before I forget, there's actually a funny story behind this. I got my Apocrypha on my 22nd birthday last year. I was at the bookstore with one of my friends from college, and he proposed buying me a birthday present. He had found a poker set at the discounted price of only $10. It had everything: cards, chips, instructions, and various other stuff. The only problem was that it was made by Playboy, and I wasn't about to play with a deck of Playboy cards. I happened to run into the Apocrypha, and suggested that my friend buy that for me instead. But he adamently refused, claiming that I was being a prude and that I was giving up a great deal. My only response was, "but I don't want a pack of cards with bunny symbol!" So being hapless college students, we arrived at a rather strange agreement. I would buy the book, he would buy the poker set, and we would exchange. After that, he would give me the book as a birthday present, and I would give him the cards as a random present. I had no idea why he wanted to do this. But this man talks a lot, and I know that if I didn't pacify him, he'd never stop talking. So alas, I received the Apocrypha as a birthday "present."

 

[Ramona]

Oh wait, before I forget, there's actually a funny story behind this. I got my Apocrypha on my 22nd birthday last year. I was at the bookstore with one of my friends from college, and he proposed buying me a birthday present. He had found a poker set at the discounted price of only $10. It had everything: cards, chips, instructions, and various other stuff. The only problem was that it was made by Playboy, and I wasn't about to play with a deck of Playboy cards. I happened to run into the Apocrypha, and suggested that my friend buy that for me instead. But he adamently refused, claiming that I was being a prude and that I was giving up a great deal. My only response was, "but I don't want a pack of cards with bunny symbol!" So being hapless college students, we arrived at a rather strange agreement. I would buy the book, he would buy the poker set, and we would exchange. After that, he would give me the book as a birthday present, and I would give him the cards as a random present. I had no idea why he wanted to do this. But this man talks a lot, and I know that if I didn't pacify him, he'd never stop talking. So alas, I received the Apocrypha as a birthday "present."

You cute, silly boy!

Hahaha. I needed that.
xoxo
Mumbai

 

[Flynmonkie]

Joy, you can find copies of all these free on the net if you need quick reference (believe it or not, I hate reading off the monitor though but they have come in handy!). There are varying sites, just do a search. Of course, as you know, just be careful of "translation" as with all the "free advice" out here in neverland!

 

[Gear853]

i personally think the idea of "Purgatory" is just as silly as repenting right before you die to insure your way to heaven...

i have always read the bible as what it is. a little off topic - but that's why baptist suit me the best - and to follow it. as what it said in it.

 

[dave90]

i personally think the idea of "Purgatory" is just as silly as repenting right before you die to insure your way to heaven...

i have always read the bible as what it is. a little off topic - but that's why baptist suit me the best.

I find Biblical backing for purgotory, its Bibilical for me.

We dont believe purgotory is a second chance, all souls in purgotory are saved.

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

I find Biblical backing for purgotory, its Bibilical for me.

We dont believe purgotory is a second chance, all souls in purgotory are saved.

where is Purgatory in the Bible?

Sure there was Paradise, but that was before Christ came and pay the sin debt which allowed all the faithful believers before Him that were in Paradise to enter Heaven.

 

[mesue]

I find Biblical backing for purgotory, its Bibilical for me.

We dont believe purgotory is a second chance, all souls in purgotory are saved.

Got a Book, Chapter and Verse for this backing?

 

[Gear853]

i like to know that as well. thanks.

 

[arunma]

I think this may be the Scripture passage that Catholics have in mind:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)​

It's interesting to note that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory only arose about a hundred years after the schism of 1054. As such, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not endorse the doctrine of purgatory, but instead holds to the doctrine of theosis. Loosely put, theosis is the belief that after death, we are reshaped more into God's image (but not by suffering for our own sins). This seems to be more in line with the above Scripture, IMHO.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

The Catholics read the Catholic Bible, and in the Catholic Bible, it talks about Purgatory. That is why he can find it, and you can't.

 

[rainbowpromise]

The Catholics read the Catholic Bible, and in the Catholic Bible, it talks about Purgatory. That is why he can find it, and you can't.

Doing an online search lists many passages that are interpreted to indicate that belief. Not in the Catholic Bible.
It is in the interpretation. Context is an issue as well.

 

[dave90]

The Catholics read the Catholic Bible, and in the Catholic Bible, it talks about Purgatory. That is why he can find it, and you can't.

there is one verse in the apocrypha regarding puratory, nothing else. And all that verse says is pray for the dead so they may be releved from sin.

I'd advice you to stop getting your information from Jesus-is-lord.com i remember you quoting from that website in GT, which is very well a anti-catholic website.

btw we have the exact same Bible as you do minus the apocrypha, we out error which is in the kjv.

 

[mesue]

I think this may be the Scripture passage that Catholics have in mind:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)​

It's interesting to note that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory only arose about a hundred years after the schism of 1054. As such, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not endorse the doctrine of purgatory, but instead holds to the doctrine of theosis. Loosely put, theosis is the belief that after death, we are reshaped more into God's image (but not by suffering for our own sins). This seems to be more in line with the above Scripture, IMHO.

This speaks of our reward in Heaven. Our motivation for doing things (works) Wood, hay, stubble are things that burn, The works I do for self glory and recognition. This will easily burn when tried by the fire.
Gold Silver and precious jewels are the works I do because I love the Lord and want to minister to His people. These things don't burn, but remain after being tried by fire and are my eternal reward.
Please note that even if I did nothing after my salvation, I'd still have the Crown of Salvation which will not burn when tried by fire.

 

[Monica02]

Where did you get your deuterocanonicals? I've been looking for 'em.

As an interesting side-note, our Baptist church in Austria did read from them in services.

It might be easier to just get a Catholic bible. I know our larger (Barnes &Nobel and the like) have several copies. A Catholic Church or religious order might give you one for free.

 

[Windlord]

I think this may be the Scripture passage that Catholics have in mind:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)​

It's interesting to note that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory only arose about a hundred years after the schism of 1054. As such, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not endorse the doctrine of purgatory, but instead holds to the doctrine of theosis. Loosely put, theosis is the belief that after death, we are reshaped more into God's image (but not by suffering for our own sins). This seems to be more in line with the above Scripture, IMHO.

Btw, the part of Theosis that is reshaping more into God's image does fit within the loose belief structures that surround the Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory. That is what I believe.

Peace,

Windlord.

 

[Rion]

In the morning service all of the elderly would give you dirty looks and make "hmph" noises.

In the noon service they probably wouldn't hear you over the music.

 

[cubanito]

As previously alluded to, we of the BaBtist denomination do believe in purotory. We hold to the salvation of kittens, where they can purr for all time.

We also hold to a post-mealenean rapture, which accounts for the wearing of the Babs.

As to our view of the Apocrypha, we are pacifists, and as such opposed to all canons. For the same reason we permit no rosaries or other necklaces, lest someone get too heated during an argument and misuse these items. We still mourn "the Day of the Garrote" when those thoroughly un-humorous Presbytereans wrung the necks of thousands of us.

JR (a Presby)

 

[arunma]

As previously alluded to, we of the BaBtist denomination do believe in purotory. We hold to the salvation of kittens, where they can purr for all time.

We also hold to a post-mealenean rapture, which accounts for the wearing of the Babs.

As to our view of the Apocrypha, we are pacifists, and as such opposed to all canons. For the same reason we permit no rosaries or other necklaces, lest someone get too heated during an argument and misuse these items. We still mourn "the Day of the Garrote" when those thoroughly un-humorous Presbytereans wrung the necks of thousands of us.

JR (a Presby)

Posts like this are why every forum on CF ought to have JR.

 

[N728DA]

If you were to show up and do all that at the churches I attended in my childhood, you probably would have come close to ending up in the hospital.

In one church, I surmise that the pastor would have summoned all the men of the church to physically make you leave; You would be asked to not come back.

At another church, the pastor would have no doubt pointed his finger in your face and "slightly raise his voice" until he turned white and breathless, then he would've asked you to leave and be about the "devils business".

And at yet another church, the pastor's son (assistant pastor) would have taken you into his office, thrown you against the wall and hit you over the head with a bible, perhaps he would've broken your nose--as he once did to a teen who refused to go on a "soul-winning" trip-- then he would have had several people testify for him that he did not touch you. You would be welcomed back as long as you repeated the sinner's prayer, publically apologized to everyone in the congregation, then got baptized so that they could add you to their church statistics in order to brag about how many baptisms and sinners' prayers took place because of them.

Thats sad that certain people would resort to violence. Not only is this unholy behavior but also illegal. I've never known any Baptists (Or any other Christians) to behave like that.

-N728DA

 

[Want2bLast]

I have found the verse you are referring to ... which you should always have all the weapons at your disposal before you go into battle ... it is 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
"And making a gathering, he (Judas) sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection," & continuing " It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." ... now for the dismantling of the verse ... first & most importantly this particular verse is part of the Apocrypha & not from the majority of the Bible that most Baptists & Catholics could agree on ... finally, the Apocrypha wasn't even recognized by the early Catholic church ... it wasn't till 1546 AD and the Council of Trent that it was added and it was added because parts of it agreed with practices the Catholic church wanted to act upon (i.e. praying for the dead, the idea of purgatory, and the ultimate reason for the separation of all Protestants & Catholics - indulgences (the belief that one could pay for sins & be forgiven by a man)