NonBelievers Go To Hell? Seriously...?

[phoenixgw]

I happened to be reading the book of John today. John is a good book to read for people who wonder who Jesus is & what they have to do to experience the kingdom of God.

The fact that you believe there is a God, Jesus, & a hell put you in better shape than most people in this world. You're halfway there & you didn't even realize it! As long as this belief is in your mind, you will have no choice but to see it to its final conclusion.

Life, including the Christian life, is a journey of discovery. You are who you are, and no matter what circumstances surround you, your true character will manifest itself. Do sunflower seeds grow up to be corn?
Can one decide if one is a wheat or a tare? They both look the same growing up, yet one is nutritious & the other poison. We will be surprised, all of us, when we see who goes to the New Jerusalem & who is thrown in the lake of fire.

Keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking; you're on the right track. Find people who have that "inner peace" that Christianity affords and don't let go of them until you get what you want--that's what I did.

You're in a lot better shape than you think. I will pray for the light of Christ to shine on you, so that you might turn to Him & be healed.

 

[prophecystudent]

Regarding who goes to hell and who goes to be with Christ, consider the following.

God is righteous and perfect in His judgement.

God gave mankind a one-question test (regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil) and they failed.

God told the two of them prior to the test that if they failed the test they would die (which they later did)

God provided a method by which mankind can be reconciled to God and spend eternity in continuous fellowship with Him.

In the old testament days the way to cleanse yourself of sin was to sacrifice a perfect lamb, the blood was what washed away the sin.

Unfortunately, the blood only covered past sins and every time they sinned (like several times a day) they had to offer another sin offering to God.

God provided His own Perfect Lamb as a one-time sacrifice to cover all the sins of mankind, once for all.

That perfect Lamb was Jesus Christ, God's only Son. God loves us so much that He sent His only Son to die to pay the price of our sins.

God only placed one requirement on that salvation. Consider it another test. That requirement is that we acknowledge His offering up His Son as the perfect, once for all, sacrifice. That we accept His free gift of love by acknowledging Christ and His sacrifice for us.

If we simply acknowledge Christ as our means to salvation, we are saved and spend eternity with Christ and God.

If we fail the test, that is to deny that Christ is the Son of God, that He died for ours sins, then we are sent to hell where God promised all unforgiven sinners would go.

Consider, if your son came to you and said that he was going to die for someone else, to save them, wouldn't you feel that you had a right to establish the rules under which they would be saved?

It is surely not too much for God to ask of us that we acknowledge His gift and Christ's sacrifice for our salvation.

God offers us a free ticket to salvation, all we have to do is accept it. Reject it, and you go where He said those who reject his offer will go. To the eternal lake of fire.

You may not feel this is "fair" but God provided a simple way for us to avoid going to hell. There are those who will refuse to accept the gift and they will pay the price.

If such elegantly simple concepts annoy people that is too bad for them. Nobody can tell God what to do. He made the rules, they are simple, easy to follow, and He is ever faithful to follow thru on His promise. We should to our best to keep our end of the bargain.

Fred

 

[flowerpower711]

Prophecystudent, your remarks only hold merit if I take the Bible as God's word. Right now I feel that ehh it might, it might not.

The world is complicated - not as simple as you have seemed to put it.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Please, remember this: Church is not where your faith lies in. It's in Jesus.
It's all fair, you see.
Let me define Hell for you.. I've studied what Hell would be like and such and such. Please, do not be so alarmed because of "hell."
Hell, is place we go to due to the choices we make. You are agnostic, yes? Then you must believe in higher power which is good thing.

Like Morgen wrote, Hell is choice for us. Hell is place for those who despised Lord and even after "death" they still despise and thus, they put themselves from Lord and hide in darkness..this..is void and void..is hell.
Without light or love. Without hope or path, it is void. It is void because it has nothing but hopelessness, suffering, and sadness. Perhaps anger and hatred. Within those, there is fire.. fire caused because they are in void..because they are in hell.
Fire is sin and sin is suffering. We all sin without knowing and sometimes even knowing.
I'm Christian and I still sin, without doubt. What can I do? I try my best to correct it and live for another day..hoping* to live with Lord. You see, hope is what I strife for.. hope is what I exactly needed.. I was also agnostic, you see. It was about 3 years ago.
I thought this to myself, "I'm good guy, I did good things and didn't do anything wrong..so I won't go to hell"
It was simple.. because I had no belief. I could say it and believe in it because I had no faith in Jesus.
But this is my testimony. It depends on you to take it or not..call me pathetic as you please, I am as I be as God brought me to do so. I thank God for delivering but from this secret suffering.....but it gets even worse when I actually became Christian, just let you know..because I am aware of all things around me like what I did and what I am doing. It's even harder but..at least I'm changing bit by bit.

Now, for your comment:

It hurts me that people feel this way. It hurts more that my friend thinks I deserve Hell for trying to live life the best I can. Belief is just that, Belief. The fact that someone should be punished for that disgusts me.

Sir, due to all respect, your friends said wrong things to you and I believe it's their fault what they did, as a human being. What is this..I mean wow! How can "friends" tell you, "You deserve hell because you are trying to live a life best as possible"
No! Non-sense! Jesus never did this. He never accused a person who is trying to do his best, like the rich man who came to Jesus and asked him how to achieve eternal life! Instead of accusing, he, in fact, gave him advise saying, "Give all your wealth to poor".
sadly, he didn't because he had so much pride...anyways, Jesus did not accuse this person nor did he tell him that his going to hell. If Jesus did not do this, then what gives us, Christians, right to accuse another? I thought we were to become like-Christ?
Again, with all the respect for your friends, they have caused you great grief.. and I pray for the wound to heal..
Please, let their words not disturb you sir.
Freedom is yours to believe..yours to take..and yours to use. I simply gave this to Christ and earned my way of freedom.
But as we accuse you none but came to help, please, be in peace.

 

[YourChild]

Prophecystudent, your remarks only hold merit if I take the Bible as God's word. Right now I feel that ehh it might, it might not.

I am glad to know that you believe God exists. So consider this. He created man and this place which we dwell. From this position we can see 2 points...that God has created us and left us on our own..or..He created us and is here with us, guiding us through our lives. If we honestly take a look around us and open our eyes and ears to what other Christians are witnessing to, we will see that they are actually having a "connection/relationship/communion" with God. Its not just 1 person professing this. There are millions making this same claim. What can you conclude from this? That these million Christians are deliberately lying to everyone while they are preaching that lying is a sin?
Then another point to look at is...the Christian walk is not an easy one. It can infact, sometimes be really difficult, but yet, why are there so many people who hang onto the Christian walk ....many have even given their lives up for the love of God. Apparently there is something going on...something deep that is greater than what you are merely seeing with your eyes.

Now you figure...that since God has not left us but is ever longing to be with us more than we can imagine...don't you think that He has given us something for us to go by...some sort of instruction/guidelines/rules/regulations/laws? Obviously He cant just let us sit here and make up our own rules. It makes perfect sense that a parent lay out the rules for their children who lives under their roof, so as the teacher who also has a set of rules for her students in the classroom. and the same goes for a government that governs a nation. So then it makes sense for God to lay out the instruction/guidelines/rules/regulations/laws on how to live a life that pleases Him. And for Him to do this, doesnt it make sense that He is going to put it all down in writing, in a book format, in words, for us to read so that we all can have access to exactly what He wills for our lives? I mean, how would you expect Him to describe His character, His love, His mercy, His instruction, His grace, His laws to you if it wasn't going to be in a written format of a book? What other way do you think would be best for you to understand who He is and what His heart desires? ...did you expected a bird to come flying into your window with a little note attached to its feet? did you expected something to fall out of the sky and hit you on the head which has a heading that says, "This is the Word of God, from God to 'flowerpower'"? I mean, how would you want to teach your children in the most effective and practical way?

If you really go through the Bible, put your pride aside, and read it with a humble heart, you will see that His Law absolutely makes sense. go through His 10 Commandments and really see what it says. you will realize that your own conscience bears witness to His Laws. In other words, your conscience will agree to His Laws because He has written His Laws in the conscience of everyman. Prophecies have been fullfilled, scientific evidence is there. Testimonies are all over the place. the question is...and I'll say it again...are you willing to accept His Gift of Salvation?

 

[asianangel]

Well said YourChild...I especially liked your God vs Science trivia! Even though I've read them before it just makes me realise again what a supernatural book the Bible is . Anyway if flowerpower feels like she can't convert now no amount of words we type are gonna change her heart.

Then another point to look at is...the Christian walk is not an easy one. It can infact, sometimes be really difficult, but yet, why are there so many people who hang onto the Christian walk ....many have even given their lives up for the love of God. Apparently there is something going on...something deep that is greater than what you are merely seeing with your eyes.

Jesus never promised an easy life...he never promised a happy life...he promises hurts and trials and struggles and all kinds of horrible things but underneath it all he promises eternal life...is that not enough? Is salvation not enough my dear friend? People make the mistake that God is some cosmic genietsk tsk

Oh and I absolutely get really annoyed when athiests or non Christians 'feel sorry' for Christians...don't pity us! Save your tears. You pick your path and we pick ours. We might not have more money or more power or more good in our hearts than any non believer but I can assure I'm a lot happier than most Peace...I'll keep praying for you flowerpower!

 

[calidog]

don't forget asianangel that in addition to troubles, Jesus promises He will give us peace through it:

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Oh and I absolutely get really annoyed when athiests or non Christians 'feel sorry' for Christians...don't pity us! Save your tears. You pick your path and we pick ours. We might not have more money or more power or more good in our hearts than any non believer but I can assure I'm a lot happier than most Peace...I'll keep praying for you flowerpower!

This feels..out of topic.
Forgive me for saying such..

 

[Emmy]

Dear flowerpower 711, non-believers don`t go to hell, only those who do NOT want to know God, who do not accept that there is a God who loves us, who made us in His image, and who wants us to be kind and loving too. You had some good replies, flowerpower, just think about it, and if possible read about Jesus, God`s Son, in one of the Gospels in the Bible. Don`t let anybody frighten you, our God is all LOVE, and He is waiting for you to come to Him of your own free will. I can promise you though, Jesus is a most loving Teacher and Friend. I say this humbly and kindly, flowerpower, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S. Hell is for Satan`s followers, and men or women who do NOT want to go to God, will end up in outer darkness, a place without God.

 

[prophecystudent]

Prophecystudent, your remarks only hold merit if I take the Bible as God's word. Right now I feel that ehh it might, it might not.

The world is complicated - not as simple as you have seemed to put it.

Agreed that the world is complicated. But you are not dealing with the world, you are dealing with God and His Son.

It says in the bible that God chooses to use simple things to confound the "wise". In other words, He uses simplicity so that the so-called wise men cannot understand it.

The issue is truly as simple as I put it. Only people make it more complicated than it is.

If you want "proof" that God exists, or that Christ existed (or is the Son of God) then you will have to read the bible, intensively, and refer to heaps of historical documents to get the historical support for what is written in the bible.

There are more than 300 prophecies regarding Christ recorded in the bible. The only ones left unfulfilled are those related to the end times; like the rapture and the tribulation period.

Fulfilled prophecy, for one thing, proves the accuracy of the bible, and that Christ is exactly who He claimed, and we believe He is.

We cannot "prove" to you that Christ is who we believe He is. You have to do that for yourself. We have been trying to help you find that proof. To restate it, you will have to read, and really really study, the Word, along with all the supporting documents that prove its accuracy. To do that will take you years and years. I base this statement on the fact that non-believers have been trying for nearly 2000 years to prove that the bible is false, and they only provide more proof that it is true.

I am truly sorry that your friend seems to have relegated you to some status that bothers you. That, in itself, is UNCHRISTIAN!

To take that approach is less than Christian, in my opinion, and she (and you) would have been better served if she had done some studying on evangelism before she started trying to convert you.

Christ gave His life out of love for us. Consider that your friend also loves you enough to get you to accept His offer of salvation. Agreed that she did it the wrong way, but that does not make her message wrong. The approach she used was wrong. Too often that happens when young/new believers get into spreading the Word before they are ready.

One thing you must understand, God seems to consider all things as either/or.

You are good, or bad. You are a sinner or not. You are saved or not. Righteous or unrighteous.

God gave us free will. We can choose to follow Him, or choose not to follow Him. Our choice. He provided the way, it is our choice to accept or reject it.

I much prefer the message of love that Christ gave us when telling people about Him and His wonderful salvation. Fire and brimstone have their place, but only as a last resort. Christ loved us so much that He died for our sins. That is the truth.

I especially like the analogy of the plane to London in prior post. It perfectly describes the situation.

In the analogy, you/we have a choice. We want to go to London so we get on a plane. If we get on a plane to Sidney we don't go to London. Our choice to get on the wrong plane.

If we choose to reject God's love gift for us, then we also end up in the wrong place.

And, for the record, those who do not accept His gift, do end up in the ETERNAL LAKE OF FIRE.

There are two different interpretations on how long those who go there will actually stay there. Some believe that they stay there for some period of time and then are restored to heaven. Most believe that once in the lake of fire, they stay there for eternity.

The bible seems pretty clear that those who go to that lake of fire go there for eternity.

So, you see, even among "educated" bible scholars there are differences of opinion on some of the minor details. However, there is no disagreement on the major theme called salvation.

The rule is , believe and accept Christ, or not. If you do not then you end up where all unbelievers go.

Sorry if the simplicity bothers or confuses you, but that is the way it is.

Fred

 

[flowerpower711]

No one has yet to tell me if they have sought truth in other works. Have you read every religious doctrine in the world? Then how can you be sure that there isn't an even more true or accurate religion? Not to mention all the things that have simply been thought or things that the human mind can not even ponder.

Shouldn't we look at all there is in the world and then if you can actually do that make an accurate and justified choice?

 

[flowerpower711]

And btw the simplicity of what you are saying Prophecy student does not bother me. It's the hate and cruelty that you preach that disturbs me. I understand that most Christians preach love, and that is the part of Christianity that I like. But God sending people to Hell because they weren't sure if Jesus Christ was their savior...no that doesn't seem believable.




Thankfully there are many Christians that don't believe this and to them I say good for you!

 

[calidog]

No one has yet to tell me if they have sought truth in other works. Have you read every religious doctrine in the world? Then how can you be sure that there isn't an even more true or accurate religion? Not to mention all the things that have simply been thought or things that the human mind can not even ponder.

Shouldn't we look at all there is in the world and then if you can actually do that make an accurate and justified choice?

How many truths are there? Is one thing more truer than another?

 

[Merlin]

Merlin, in your analogy of the plane trip to London, I understand that you and most Christians believe that Chrisitianity is the only way to get to Heaven.

I'm not saying Christianity is the only way.
I am saying that Jesus is the only mechanism.
It is only by His sacrifice for us.
Nothing we can ever do is enough.

If it were that easy then wouldn't everybody be Christian? For a lot of people, it takes more than what is said in the Bible.

One would think that since it is so simple that everyone would choose Jesus.
Yet, it is hard for many. It requires being humble enough to accept that nothing we do can be enough.

Also, just because I am posting on this does not mean God is speaking to me.

It does mean precisely that God is talking to you.
You just don't want to accept it as truth.
You prefer to think yourself in control.

I'm on here because 1. I feel like my friend has deserted me for no reason and I want her to read my posts on how I am feeling and 2. A lot of what Christianity says distrubs me. The fact that so many people believe these hurtful things is incredibly disheartening.

From mankind's perspective it may be hurtful, but from the perspective of God and eternity it is not.

The only way someone can know for sure if the Bible, or any doctrine, is the word of God or right is by reading everything that has ever been written, everything that has ever been thought, even things that have never even been pondered. Only then can you really decided whether the ideas in the Bible are as prophetic or true as you say they are.

Not true.
I do not need to eat every possible poison to know that to eat any poison is harmful.

Thats a pretty daunting, and impossible task.

Yes

It hurts me that people feel this way. It hurts more that my friend thinks I deserve Hell for trying to live life the best I can.

The best you can is not good enough.
No one is good enough.

Belief is just that, Belief. The fact that someone should be punished for that disgusts me.

Belief is just belief. I agree.
But there is a reality. No belief will change that.
The sun will rise tomorrow, regardless of one's belief.
The only way to avoid hell is by Jesus, regardless of belief.

I'll probably stop posting here. Because its not going to change how you feel, it won't change how my friend feels about me.

You might change how I feel.
You might change my beliefs.
Your posting won't change reality though.

 

[reddogs]

I hate to tell you this flowerpower, but most who are agnostic or atheist go in that direction to do what Jonah did, keep as far away from God as posible. Oh yeah, they know the truth is there and God is seeking them, but they rather not be bothered, and that works till you need God, when danger or death is near. Then the question is, will you reach out to God or seek to hide in the other direction, that is what will determine where you will be when the end comes........

 

[prophecystudent]

Flowerpower,
Salvation is BY FAITH. It is our faith that God did as the bible says, that He sent His Son to be the Perfect Lamb, and to once for all shed blood for remission of our sins.

God's grace allows Him to accept us because of our faith in Him and His Son.

Nobody can tell you more than any one of us on this board.

You seem to have made up your mind that you refuse to believe. That is your choice, even though we all feel it is the wrong one. You, like all of us, have free will. You exercise that free will as you decide to believe, or not.

For your education, only those who believe in Christ and His salvation are properly called Christians.

Anyone who professes to be a Christian and does not believe the basic tenets of Christianity, is not a Christian in any sense of the word.

I sincerely hope you find that for which you are searching.

The bible is perfectly clear about what is required to be saved. It is not by works, it is by faith. None of us can work hard enough, do enough "good deeds" etc to earn salvation. That salvation comes through our faith and trust in Christ.

I am sure we will all be praying that you find your way to Christ.

I hope you find your answers before it is too late.

Fred

 

[YourChild]

And btw the simplicity of what you are saying Prophecy student does not bother me. It's the hate and cruelty that you preach that disturbs me. I understand that most Christians preach love, and that is the part of Christianity that I like. But God sending people to Hell because they weren't sure if Jesus Christ was their savior...no that doesn't seem believable.




Thankfully there are many Christians that don't believe this and to them I say good for you!

What disturbs me even more is that some Christians have taken the liberty to remove the doctrine of hell. They have deceived themselves into disbelieving what God has many times, stated in the Bible, that Hell is real and its where all sinners will go. We can go on pretending to you, covering up the reality of hell, and preach God's love all day long....but what good would that do for you if you cannot understand and appreciate the extent of God's love by observing and realizing how He humbled Himself all the way to the Cross so that you and others should not perish? People must be alarmed and they must know the truth! Christ would not have to die such a cruel and brutal death if Hell is not real. Why else would He step off from His throne and humble Himself to be a man so that He can get spit on, punched, kicked, scourge, then nailed to a tree and hung there?
Because He loves you so much that He would go through all of that just so you will not have to go to such a horrifying place.

We would be demeaning the sacrafice of Christ if we persisted on telling you that God loves you and will not send you to hell, even if you continue to reject Him all the way until you take your last breathe on your death bed. We would be LYING to you and the message of the Cross would then be meaningless. Christ did not die in vain! Hell is a scary reality and it cannot be hidden. It is the very reason why He came to this earth and its the very reason why He is called the Savior.

 

[calidog]

just because I am posting on this does not mean God is speaking to me. I'm on here because 1. I feel like my friend has deserted me for no reason and I want her to read my posts on how I am feeling and 2. A lot of what Christianity says distrubs me. The fact that so many people believe these hurtful things is incredibly disheartening.

It is almost ALWAYS in hind-sight that we realize it was God Who used circumstances to accomplish His will.

the secular person would call this "fate".

When ever you come to the faith God is briinging you to, think back on all the events that brought you to your faith.

That is why God says "it (faith) is a gift of God, (so) that no man can boast (that he came about it on his own)"

 

[calidog]

flowerpower711:

You will discover that all christians came to faith through God's grace and love upon them.

It was never the threat of hell that accomplished it, although that usually got our attention.

It was Gods kindness that sealed the deal.
Every christian has no greater anticipation than the day we will see our Lord in person.

 

[asianangel]

But God sending people to Hell because they weren't sure if Jesus Christ was their savior...no that doesn't seem believable

Sorry if I sound irritable...so tired...but you just blasphemed God by saying that... I know you might not have meant it though. He doesn't send anyone to hell. People are either with satan or with God there is no in-betweens. Sorry if it offends people because Christians who TRULY love God will never never never sugar coat the truth. God would never change the Bible just to make humans happy...he's not scared of us.The ones who love you the most will tell you the most truth-and that's God (through the Bible)

In fact it disgusts me whe pastors keep preaching the romantic side of the Bible all sugar coated it's twisted and bordering on heresy...listen to Paul Washer's preaching on modern American Christianity and I know lots of people got really angry about it-but it's true! I noticed that you enjoy hearing the sweet side of the Bible...well you can get a lot of people into a church building that way but you can't build a true church and fellowship if Jesus Christ is not in the centre of it holding it all together. Not trying to scare you but the raw truth is not sweet and it is really dangerous if pastors keep trying to walk on eggshells just to get people into their church...they're most likely false preachers..not saying they are...but most likely.