really not praying to Mary???

[revduane]

Your grandmother couldn't stand to have you ask her to pray for you? You have a very strange grandmother if she refuses to pray for you. I think you have her all wrong.

Pray to her after she has left this earth. You knew what I meant.

 

[mike1reynolds]

No one is praying TOO Mary, they are asking FOR Mary to pray for them. To insist that Jesus' mother can't do this is not flattery to Jesus. You seem to think that you are flattering Jesus with your statements. Do you think that Jesus would feel flattered by having His mother insulted in such a fashion?

If He were here in person, you might find the reaction to be something much more extreme than anything that you expected. I know I wouldn't think much of anyone who insults my mother.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Pray to her after she has left this earth. You knew what I meant.

That was exactly what I was refering to. She hears you right now, and is probably insulted by being ignored. You know how mothers and grandmothers are, do you really think that changes when they go to Heaven?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't think Jesus would want even His mother to stand between you and God.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Jesus would be insulted by the notion that asking His mother for her prayers would stand between anyone and God. If you believe that Mary's prayers would separate you from God then prepare to meet her son's wrath.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Mary would say not to bow to her just as Micheal did.

 

[revduane]

As if this made it irrelevant. It is a reflection of popular culture. It wouldn’t be funny if it was an utterly idiosyncratic and unique behavior. Blacks in particular have a strong familial bond and can sense their deceased loved ones better than white people who tend to have less heart. (I grew up in an all black neighborhood in Atlanta and I will forever see the dominate culture as cold and distant compared to the warmth and heart of the culture I was raised in.)[/SIZE]

Lots of things, especially of the condemnatory variety.[/SIZE]

Mormons are a cult, what’s your point? You seem to be implying that this point of view is a reflection of Catholicism. From my point of view, any self-proclaimed revelation is similar. That would be you, not the RCC.[/SIZE]

Mike Grow up.

You like most people that follow doctrine that changes every other year, are always looking to discredit Non catholic or non orthodox Christians, so don't get self righteous about others condemning the CC. You have a personal beef with me. You follow me around like a puppy dog, and you get milage playing the devils advocate.

You have one of the worst theologies I have seen here. Or should I say Me-ology? Your intellectual appraisal of my posts, are comical, and far reaching. Your best friend is the one that agrees the most with you at the present moment, and it is sad.

 

[revduane]

You reversed it, Mary doesn’t need our prayers, we need HER prayers. The orthodox do not play TOO Mary, they pray for Mary to intercede with her prayers for us. The way you put it turns the way the orthodox do it on its head.

To disagree with someone is one thing, and quite respectable, but to reverse their meaning when disagreeing is quite something else.

Maybe you can remember your own advice.

 

[mike1reynolds]

You think it is immature to think your grandmother wants to hear from you? She is alive, she is not dead.

I am not distorting your beliefs, you sincerely think your grandmother in Heaven doesn't care about hearing from you. I think that this as much of an issue for your grandmother as it is for Jesus' mother. I don't think that either are pleased by assuming they that should be ignored.

 

[mike1reynolds]

BTW, when I said I disagree with you as much as anyone, I wasn't saying that I disagree with you MORE than anyone. You have altered my statement into this. I disagree with many others AS MUCH as I disagree with you. I have never said I disagree with you more than anyone. I haven't singled you out, I disagree with Calvinists just as much as I disagree with you.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I've never seen any scripture refering to prayers to the dead. That would be termed ancester worship, wouldn't it?

 

[revduane]

I've never seen any scripture refering to prayers to the dead. That would be termed ancester worship, wouldn't it?

And using familiar Spirits. Forbidden in the Word.

 

[mike1reynolds]

If you can't ask those in Heaven for their prayers then they must not really be alive. This assumption of yours assumes the invalidity of eternal life.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Familiars in the dictionary refers to animal spirits. Referring to your ancestors as familiar spirits is to assert that they are not human.

 

[HisKid1973]

I see a full house ..can anyone answer this please..thanks..Kim

Question for those who pray to saints and are bible scholars...Every time "saint" is used does it mean those both who are alive in Christ in the dead in Christ(meaning those alive on earth vs depatarted) or a reference to one or the other..How can you tell?..Thanks..Kim

 

[revduane]

If you can't ask those in Heaven for their prayers then they must not really be alive. This assumption of yours assumes the invalidity of eternal life.

Then why don't the CC pray to those in alleged purgatory? They will be in heaven someday wouldn't they?

Speaking of purgatory. Why do the RC's have expensive, I mean, special masses for the loved ones in purgatory, if they don't know if they are in purgatory? And why say special masses anyway, it couldn't get them out any quicker, I mean sin purging is sin purging, and they would have to be in purgatory for the proper amount of "Purging time" regardless of said masses.

 

[revduane]

Familiars in the dictionary refers to animal spirits. Referring to your ancestors as familiar spirits is to assert that they are not human.

But if they are dead, they aren't human anymore.

 

[mike1reynolds]

The answer is obvious, people in Purgatory are in trouble and in no position to give anyone help. You only ask for help from people who can give it, not from those in an even worse situation.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Do you think that going to Heaven means loosing your humanity? How are you defining humanity?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

In what way do others give help?