*Revelation 11:18 / *Rev. 11:18 -
"Them which destroy the earth" does not have to include every non-Christian, but can refer to the ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire, who will destroy the cities of the nations right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2-21).
(See also the "Amillennialism?" section of Luke 17:26 above. And see Revelation chapters 17-18 below)
~
(Wrath)
Revelation 11:18 does not require that the entire future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath. In Revelation 11:18 the original Greek can be translated as "thy wrath is come", meaning that it will be at the Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15) that the plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16), the Tribulation's final stage, will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).
(See also 1 Thessalonians 5:9 above)
~
(Destroy)
In Revelation 11:18 the original Greek word (diaphtheiro: G1311) translated as "destroy" does not require annihilation. For the same Greek word is used elsewhere (Luke 12:33) to refer to how a moth merely "corrupts" (that is, eats only parts of) things, such as a woolen piece of clothing or a bag of rice. Similarly, the Greek word is used to refer to men of merely "corrupt" minds (1 Timothy 6:5), not annihilated minds.
--
*Revelation 11:19 / *Rev. 11:19 -
(Temple)
This refers to a literal temple building in heaven which coexists with the temple of Jesus Christ's individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19), and with the temple of the Church as a whole (Ephesians 2:20-22).
~
(Ark of his testament) / (*Ark of the Covenant)
Here the original Greek word "diatheke" (G1242) translated as "testament" can mean "covenant" (Hebrews 8:8).
Revelation 11:19 refers to a point in time in our future when some people in heaven will literally see God's heavenly Ark of the Old Covenant (cf. Hebrews 9:4), which is in God's heavenly temple building, after the pattern of which the earthly Ark of the Old Covenant (Hebrews 9:4) and the tabernacle were fashioned in the time of Moses (Hebrews 8:5, Hebrews 9:23-24).
God still keeps His Ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in His temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) because the Old Covenant Mosaic law remains holy before Him (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), now that the New Covenant is in effect (Matthew 26:28; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).
(See also the "Law" section of Ephesians 2:15 above)
~
(Re: Is the Ark being "seen" not literal?)
The heavenly Ark of the Old Covenant being "seen" in the heavenly temple at the future time of Revelation 11:19 should be taken literally, just as every other word in Revelation 11:19 should be taken literally, and just as "see", in, for example, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 22:4, and 1 John 3:2 should be taken literally.
~
(Re: Does the Ark being in heaven mean that it will not be found on the earth?)
The Ark in heaven is the original Ark, after the pattern of which the earthly Ark was fashioned (Hebrews 9:23-24).
~
(*Hail)
A miraculous hail will occur three separate times during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24: First at the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), then years later at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15,19), and then months later at the seventh vial (Revelation 16:21). Also, after the Tribulation and the subsequent Second Coming and Millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10), the divine defeat of which will include a hail (Ezekiel 38:22). God also sent hail as a judgment at different times in the Old Testament (Exodus 9:18, Joshua 10:11, Haggai 2:17).
~
(*Lightnings / *Voices / *Thunderings)
These will occur more than once, for while Revelation 11:19 will be part of the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), Revelation 8:5 will occur before the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), and Revelation 4:5 will occur before any of the seals have been unsealed (Revelation 6). So Revelation 4:5, Revelation 8:5, and Revelation 11:19 will be three separate instances of lightnings/voices/thunderings. The first instance will occur before the seals, the second instance will occur before the subsequent trumpets, and the third instance will occur before the subsequent vials, the plagues of which will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). Then Revelation 16:18 will occur as part of the seventh-and-last vial (Revelation 16:17).
(See also the "Chronological" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) above)
--
*Revelation 12 / *Rev. 12 -
(*Woman)
The woman in Revelation 12 represents the Church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the twelve apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26) who have been placed over the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28).
Her giving birth to the "man child" and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6) represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).
Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the Church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the Church during that time who will not flee into wilderness places but will remain in the cities and will be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
Also, Genesis 37:9-10 is not (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1, for in Revelation 12:1 the Church/Israel is not clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the Church/Israel does not have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the Church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the Church/Israel does not have Jacob's twelve sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the twelve apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her twelve tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
~
(Re: Is it the 144,000 who will flee?)
No, they will instead be taken in their mortal bodies into the third heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus).
(See Revelation 7:4 above)
~
(Re: Where to flee?)
See paragraphs 3-4 of Matthew 24:16 above.
~
(Re: Not MSOG)
The woman in Revelation 12 does not represent any particular denomination in the Church, but the Church in general, that is, all Christians in all denominations in the Church.
~
(Re: Is the woman's crown the constellation *Pleiades?)
What would be the twelve stars (Revelation 12:1) of the Pleiades, historically seen as being only six or seven stars? Also, what about the constellation Alpha Coma Berenices, also called "Diadem" or "Crown" Berenices, part of Coma Berenices, which is over the head of the reclining Virgo (the "Virgin") (cf. the Church as a virgin in 2 Corinthians 11:2b)? Also, Virgo has Serpens Caput (the "Serpent's Head") (cf. the dragon-serpent Satan in Revelation 12:9) at her feet, as if ready to devour her child at its birth (Revelation 12:4b).
--
*Revelation 12:3 / *Rev. 12:3 -
This refers to Satan in his true form: a seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:9).
(See the Beast empire is "not Satan" section of Revelation 13:5 below. Also, see section 2 of Revelation 13 below)
~
(Heaven)
Initially, both the dragon and the woman are seen in heaven (Revelation 12:1,3). Then the woman is also seen on the earth (Revelation 12:5-6,14-16). And Satan (the dragon) and his angels are seen being cast out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9,12-13).
Satan being seen in heaven at the future, mid-tribulation time of Revelation 12:3 does not contradict that he can live on the earth (Revelation 2:13; 1 Peter 5:8, Job 1:7, Job 2:2), or contradict that his mid-tribulation attempt to storm heaven will fail and he will be cast back to the earth (Revelation 12:7-17); just as, on the side of good, the woman/Church/Israel being seen in heaven in Revelation 12:1 does not contradict that the Church can live on the earth, or contradict that a part of the Church will flee mid-tribulation into protected wilderness places on the earth (Revelation 12:6,14-16).
(See also Revelation 12:12 below, and Isaiah 26:19 above)
--
*Revelation 12:4 / *Rev. 12:4 -
This will occur in our future (Revelation 4:1b). When it says: "his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth", this represents Satan being responsible for his (fallen) angels being cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:9b) after he wages and loses a future, mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9).
--
*Revelation 12:5 / *Rev. 12:5 -
(*Rod of iron / *Man child)
The "man child" is not Jesus Christ, for Revelation 12:5 is not about past things but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from four different angles what will happen right before the start, and during, the literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying: "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient Church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the Millennium, during the future Tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church will be caught up in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the Church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).
(See also Revelation 7:4 above)
~
(Re: Does not Revelation sometimes refer to the past? For example, "five have fallen")
That tells you that they are past. But nothing says or requires that the (figurative) birth, and the ascension, of the man child (the 144,000) is past.
~
(Re: Is not Revelation 5 past?)
Note that nothing requires that Revelation 5 is past, in that Jesus Christ may have not yet received (even still today) the seven-sealed scroll from God the Father (Revelation 5:7). He might not receive it until the future point in time when He will begin unsealing it (Revelation 5:5,9, Revelation 6).
--
*Revelation 12:6 / *Rev. 12:6 -
(Re: Does this refer to the first half of the Tribulation, before the war in heaven, and Satan being cast down?)
No, Revelation 12 will be during the second half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. The literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). Revelation 12:6 refers to the same, future, literal 3.5 years in the wilderness as Revelation 12:14. Revelation 12:7-10 just goes back to show that the future war in heaven will occur right before that time, that is, it will occur mid-tribulation.
~
(Re: *Fleeing)
(See Matthew 24:16 above)
(Re: Is there no use in fleeing, because if we deny the Antichrist's mark we will all be killed anyway?)
Not necessarily, for there will be some divinely-protected wilderness places which some Christians will flee to at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16), which will be during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. And some Christians will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), which will be immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:4).
~
(Re: Should Christians flee anything?) / (Where to flee)
Matthew 10:23 commands Christians to flee persecution whenever it occurs. And Matthew 24:15-16 commands Christians to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16).
(See Matthew 24:16 above)
~
(Re: Instead of fleeing, should we load up on guns and ammo, and fight?)
No, see Matthew 5:39 above.
~
(Re: Does fleeing show that we think that God is not strong enough to defeat the enemy?)
No, Revelation 12:14 and Matthew 24:16 do not mean that the ones fleeing think that God is not strong enough to defeat the enemy (when He decides to), just as Matthew 10:23a does not mean that. But we should still obey Matthew 24:16 and Revelation 12:6,14 when we see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16), just as we should obey Matthew 10:23a during any current persecution which we might face. We should never become so spiritually proud that we think that we can stand up to a persecution when God is telling us to flee from it, because, for example, He knows that it will involve our being tortured in a way which will be too much for us to bear without us committing apostasy, to the ultimate loss of our salvation from hell (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12), or because He knows that we will be killed, and He wants us to be among those who will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
(See also Luke 10:19 above)
~
(Re: Doesn't fleeing mean that we fear harm, and love this world?)
Not necessarily, for obeying God's command to flee any persecution (Matthew 10:23a, cf. Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14) does not require that we have any fear of persecution (Luke 12:4-5), or any love for this world (1 John 2:15). It simply means (like was pointed out above) that we are humble enough to admit that we might not stand up well to a persecution which God is telling us to flee from.
Also, the general command to flee any persecution (Matthew 10:23a) is so that the Church can continue to preach in places where it is not being persecuted, and where people still need to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why waste time fighting verbally with people in one place who do not want to hear the Gospel, when there are so many other people in other places who might be willing to hear it? Indeed, Matthew 10:23b means that we will never run out of different places to preach before Jesus returns.
Also, it makes sense to move on whenever persecution arises, so that we do not overly harden the hearts of the people who are doing the persecuting. For once non-Christians get hostile against Christians preaching to them, they are not going to suddenly cool down if Christians just stand there and keep on preaching to them: They are going to get more and more angry, hardening their hearts more and more against the preaching, to where they might not ever give any other preacher a chance in the future. But if Christians calmly walk away when hostility starts, the angry hearts of the non-Christians can begin to cool down right away, so that their hearts might be willing to give another preacher a chance in the future.
~
(Re: But doesn't running away like a frightened deer just make a Christian look weak?)
Note that it has not been said that a Christian should ever "run" from anything, in the sense of literally running away like a frightened deer. For that can incite the attack-mode of human persecutors no less than it incites the attack-mode of dogs. But simply walking away calmly and coolly from a human persecutor, without any fear whatsoever, can help that persecutor to cool down. And if that persecutor comes after a Christian anyway and, say, hits him, then the Christian should calmly turn around and turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39), to show that he has no intention of fighting the persecutor, and also to show that he has no fear of the persecutor (Matthew 10:28). And if the Christian gets hit again, he should simply try to walk away again, until the persecutor tires of following him.
Fox's Book of Martyrs refers to Christians who were killed for their beliefs, by being captured and imprisoned or tied up so that they could not walk away from the persecution. This is how it will be for those Christians who will not or cannot flee from the cities when they see the future abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14): They will be captured and beheaded by the future Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4).
(See also Luke 10:19 above)
~
(Re: What is this "abomination of desolation" that you keep referring to?)
See Daniel 11:31 above.
--
*Revelation 12:7-9 / *Rev. 12:7 -
This has not happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).
Just as what the apostle John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between the archangel Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).
Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this does not mean that Satan will not be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and His army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).
For before Revelation 12:7-9 happens...
(See "an army" under the "Details" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) above)
~
Parts of Revelation 12 are literal and parts are symbolic, just as, for example...
(See Revelation 5:6 above)
~
(Re: Will Satan be cast down from heaven at the start of the future Tribulation, so that he will be here for seven years?)
No, Revelation 12:7-9 will be mid-tribulation, just as Revelation 12:6,14 will be mid-tribulation.
~
(Re: Are Satanists and fallen angels stupid?)
Satanists and fallen angels can be both intelligent and deceived, for Satan could be showing them his power in such a way (and YHWH God could be purposely delaying in showing them that He is infinitely greater in power) so that they reasonably, yet still mistakenly, think that Satan has or will be able to muster the same power, or even more power, than YHWH God.
(See Revelation chapters 17-18 below, and section 2 of Revelation 12:12 below)
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Jan 1, 2019
"Them which destroy the earth" does not have to include every non-Christian, but can refer to the ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire, who will destroy the cities of the nations right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2-21).
(See also the "Amillennialism?" section of Luke 17:26 above. And see Revelation chapters 17-18 below)
~
(Wrath)
Revelation 11:18 does not require that the entire future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath. In Revelation 11:18 the original Greek can be translated as "thy wrath is come", meaning that it will be at the Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15) that the plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16), the Tribulation's final stage, will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).
(See also 1 Thessalonians 5:9 above)
~
(Destroy)
In Revelation 11:18 the original Greek word (diaphtheiro: G1311) translated as "destroy" does not require annihilation. For the same Greek word is used elsewhere (Luke 12:33) to refer to how a moth merely "corrupts" (that is, eats only parts of) things, such as a woolen piece of clothing or a bag of rice. Similarly, the Greek word is used to refer to men of merely "corrupt" minds (1 Timothy 6:5), not annihilated minds.
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*Revelation 11:19 / *Rev. 11:19 -
(Temple)
This refers to a literal temple building in heaven which coexists with the temple of Jesus Christ's individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19), and with the temple of the Church as a whole (Ephesians 2:20-22).
~
(Ark of his testament) / (*Ark of the Covenant)
Here the original Greek word "diatheke" (G1242) translated as "testament" can mean "covenant" (Hebrews 8:8).
Revelation 11:19 refers to a point in time in our future when some people in heaven will literally see God's heavenly Ark of the Old Covenant (cf. Hebrews 9:4), which is in God's heavenly temple building, after the pattern of which the earthly Ark of the Old Covenant (Hebrews 9:4) and the tabernacle were fashioned in the time of Moses (Hebrews 8:5, Hebrews 9:23-24).
God still keeps His Ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in His temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) because the Old Covenant Mosaic law remains holy before Him (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), now that the New Covenant is in effect (Matthew 26:28; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).
(See also the "Law" section of Ephesians 2:15 above)
~
(Re: Is the Ark being "seen" not literal?)
The heavenly Ark of the Old Covenant being "seen" in the heavenly temple at the future time of Revelation 11:19 should be taken literally, just as every other word in Revelation 11:19 should be taken literally, and just as "see", in, for example, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 22:4, and 1 John 3:2 should be taken literally.
~
(Re: Does the Ark being in heaven mean that it will not be found on the earth?)
The Ark in heaven is the original Ark, after the pattern of which the earthly Ark was fashioned (Hebrews 9:23-24).
~
(*Hail)
A miraculous hail will occur three separate times during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24: First at the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), then years later at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15,19), and then months later at the seventh vial (Revelation 16:21). Also, after the Tribulation and the subsequent Second Coming and Millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10), the divine defeat of which will include a hail (Ezekiel 38:22). God also sent hail as a judgment at different times in the Old Testament (Exodus 9:18, Joshua 10:11, Haggai 2:17).
~
(*Lightnings / *Voices / *Thunderings)
These will occur more than once, for while Revelation 11:19 will be part of the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), Revelation 8:5 will occur before the first trumpet (Revelation 8:7), and Revelation 4:5 will occur before any of the seals have been unsealed (Revelation 6). So Revelation 4:5, Revelation 8:5, and Revelation 11:19 will be three separate instances of lightnings/voices/thunderings. The first instance will occur before the seals, the second instance will occur before the subsequent trumpets, and the third instance will occur before the subsequent vials, the plagues of which will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). Then Revelation 16:18 will occur as part of the seventh-and-last vial (Revelation 16:17).
(See also the "Chronological" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) above)
--
*Revelation 12 / *Rev. 12 -
(*Woman)
The woman in Revelation 12 represents the Church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the twelve apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26) who have been placed over the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28).
Her giving birth to the "man child" and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6) represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).
Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the Church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the Church during that time who will not flee into wilderness places but will remain in the cities and will be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
Also, Genesis 37:9-10 is not (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1, for in Revelation 12:1 the Church/Israel is not clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the Church/Israel does not have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the Church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the Church/Israel does not have Jacob's twelve sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the twelve apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her twelve tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
~
(Re: Is it the 144,000 who will flee?)
No, they will instead be taken in their mortal bodies into the third heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus).
(See Revelation 7:4 above)
~
(Re: Where to flee?)
See paragraphs 3-4 of Matthew 24:16 above.
~
(Re: Not MSOG)
The woman in Revelation 12 does not represent any particular denomination in the Church, but the Church in general, that is, all Christians in all denominations in the Church.
~
(Re: Is the woman's crown the constellation *Pleiades?)
What would be the twelve stars (Revelation 12:1) of the Pleiades, historically seen as being only six or seven stars? Also, what about the constellation Alpha Coma Berenices, also called "Diadem" or "Crown" Berenices, part of Coma Berenices, which is over the head of the reclining Virgo (the "Virgin") (cf. the Church as a virgin in 2 Corinthians 11:2b)? Also, Virgo has Serpens Caput (the "Serpent's Head") (cf. the dragon-serpent Satan in Revelation 12:9) at her feet, as if ready to devour her child at its birth (Revelation 12:4b).
--
*Revelation 12:3 / *Rev. 12:3 -
This refers to Satan in his true form: a seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:9).
(See the Beast empire is "not Satan" section of Revelation 13:5 below. Also, see section 2 of Revelation 13 below)
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(Heaven)
Initially, both the dragon and the woman are seen in heaven (Revelation 12:1,3). Then the woman is also seen on the earth (Revelation 12:5-6,14-16). And Satan (the dragon) and his angels are seen being cast out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9,12-13).
Satan being seen in heaven at the future, mid-tribulation time of Revelation 12:3 does not contradict that he can live on the earth (Revelation 2:13; 1 Peter 5:8, Job 1:7, Job 2:2), or contradict that his mid-tribulation attempt to storm heaven will fail and he will be cast back to the earth (Revelation 12:7-17); just as, on the side of good, the woman/Church/Israel being seen in heaven in Revelation 12:1 does not contradict that the Church can live on the earth, or contradict that a part of the Church will flee mid-tribulation into protected wilderness places on the earth (Revelation 12:6,14-16).
(See also Revelation 12:12 below, and Isaiah 26:19 above)
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*Revelation 12:4 / *Rev. 12:4 -
This will occur in our future (Revelation 4:1b). When it says: "his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth", this represents Satan being responsible for his (fallen) angels being cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:9b) after he wages and loses a future, mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9).
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*Revelation 12:5 / *Rev. 12:5 -
(*Rod of iron / *Man child)
The "man child" is not Jesus Christ, for Revelation 12:5 is not about past things but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from four different angles what will happen right before the start, and during, the literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying: "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient Church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the Millennium, during the future Tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church will be caught up in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the Church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).
(See also Revelation 7:4 above)
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(Re: Does not Revelation sometimes refer to the past? For example, "five have fallen")
That tells you that they are past. But nothing says or requires that the (figurative) birth, and the ascension, of the man child (the 144,000) is past.
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(Re: Is not Revelation 5 past?)
Note that nothing requires that Revelation 5 is past, in that Jesus Christ may have not yet received (even still today) the seven-sealed scroll from God the Father (Revelation 5:7). He might not receive it until the future point in time when He will begin unsealing it (Revelation 5:5,9, Revelation 6).
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*Revelation 12:6 / *Rev. 12:6 -
(Re: Does this refer to the first half of the Tribulation, before the war in heaven, and Satan being cast down?)
No, Revelation 12 will be during the second half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. The literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). Revelation 12:6 refers to the same, future, literal 3.5 years in the wilderness as Revelation 12:14. Revelation 12:7-10 just goes back to show that the future war in heaven will occur right before that time, that is, it will occur mid-tribulation.
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(Re: *Fleeing)
(See Matthew 24:16 above)
(Re: Is there no use in fleeing, because if we deny the Antichrist's mark we will all be killed anyway?)
Not necessarily, for there will be some divinely-protected wilderness places which some Christians will flee to at the start of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 12:6,14, Matthew 24:15-16), which will be during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. And some Christians will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), which will be immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:4).
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(Re: Should Christians flee anything?) / (Where to flee)
Matthew 10:23 commands Christians to flee persecution whenever it occurs. And Matthew 24:15-16 commands Christians to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16).
(See Matthew 24:16 above)
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(Re: Instead of fleeing, should we load up on guns and ammo, and fight?)
No, see Matthew 5:39 above.
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(Re: Does fleeing show that we think that God is not strong enough to defeat the enemy?)
No, Revelation 12:14 and Matthew 24:16 do not mean that the ones fleeing think that God is not strong enough to defeat the enemy (when He decides to), just as Matthew 10:23a does not mean that. But we should still obey Matthew 24:16 and Revelation 12:6,14 when we see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16), just as we should obey Matthew 10:23a during any current persecution which we might face. We should never become so spiritually proud that we think that we can stand up to a persecution when God is telling us to flee from it, because, for example, He knows that it will involve our being tortured in a way which will be too much for us to bear without us committing apostasy, to the ultimate loss of our salvation from hell (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12), or because He knows that we will be killed, and He wants us to be among those who will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
(See also Luke 10:19 above)
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(Re: Doesn't fleeing mean that we fear harm, and love this world?)
Not necessarily, for obeying God's command to flee any persecution (Matthew 10:23a, cf. Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14) does not require that we have any fear of persecution (Luke 12:4-5), or any love for this world (1 John 2:15). It simply means (like was pointed out above) that we are humble enough to admit that we might not stand up well to a persecution which God is telling us to flee from.
Also, the general command to flee any persecution (Matthew 10:23a) is so that the Church can continue to preach in places where it is not being persecuted, and where people still need to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why waste time fighting verbally with people in one place who do not want to hear the Gospel, when there are so many other people in other places who might be willing to hear it? Indeed, Matthew 10:23b means that we will never run out of different places to preach before Jesus returns.
Also, it makes sense to move on whenever persecution arises, so that we do not overly harden the hearts of the people who are doing the persecuting. For once non-Christians get hostile against Christians preaching to them, they are not going to suddenly cool down if Christians just stand there and keep on preaching to them: They are going to get more and more angry, hardening their hearts more and more against the preaching, to where they might not ever give any other preacher a chance in the future. But if Christians calmly walk away when hostility starts, the angry hearts of the non-Christians can begin to cool down right away, so that their hearts might be willing to give another preacher a chance in the future.
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(Re: But doesn't running away like a frightened deer just make a Christian look weak?)
Note that it has not been said that a Christian should ever "run" from anything, in the sense of literally running away like a frightened deer. For that can incite the attack-mode of human persecutors no less than it incites the attack-mode of dogs. But simply walking away calmly and coolly from a human persecutor, without any fear whatsoever, can help that persecutor to cool down. And if that persecutor comes after a Christian anyway and, say, hits him, then the Christian should calmly turn around and turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39), to show that he has no intention of fighting the persecutor, and also to show that he has no fear of the persecutor (Matthew 10:28). And if the Christian gets hit again, he should simply try to walk away again, until the persecutor tires of following him.
Fox's Book of Martyrs refers to Christians who were killed for their beliefs, by being captured and imprisoned or tied up so that they could not walk away from the persecution. This is how it will be for those Christians who will not or cannot flee from the cities when they see the future abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6,14): They will be captured and beheaded by the future Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4).
(See also Luke 10:19 above)
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(Re: What is this "abomination of desolation" that you keep referring to?)
See Daniel 11:31 above.
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*Revelation 12:7-9 / *Rev. 12:7 -
This has not happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).
Just as what the apostle John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between the archangel Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).
Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this does not mean that Satan will not be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and His army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).
For before Revelation 12:7-9 happens...
(See "an army" under the "Details" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) above)
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Parts of Revelation 12 are literal and parts are symbolic, just as, for example...
(See Revelation 5:6 above)
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(Re: Will Satan be cast down from heaven at the start of the future Tribulation, so that he will be here for seven years?)
No, Revelation 12:7-9 will be mid-tribulation, just as Revelation 12:6,14 will be mid-tribulation.
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(Re: Are Satanists and fallen angels stupid?)
Satanists and fallen angels can be both intelligent and deceived, for Satan could be showing them his power in such a way (and YHWH God could be purposely delaying in showing them that He is infinitely greater in power) so that they reasonably, yet still mistakenly, think that Satan has or will be able to muster the same power, or even more power, than YHWH God.
(See Revelation chapters 17-18 below, and section 2 of Revelation 12:12 below)
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Jan 1, 2019
