Women and Tzitzit's

ContraMundum

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I can see all kinds of problems with that....what happens if two people ask G-d the same question regarding an observance and receive two different answers? Who's right? Which way do you observe the commandment?

This same dilemma is the answer as to why there are many Judaisms now and in history. Helps make a lot of sense of the Talmud and pilpul as well.
 
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geniii

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I don't do or not do anything because of "conviction". That's basically doing whatever you feel like doing.
Ah, yes, the old "pick and choose". Is that what "convicted" means?
Deciding on one's own that one should do something?
I never quite understood the term as related to Christianity.[/QUOTE]
Hi, the term pick and chose is a secular statement sent out to Christians who tell them a passage from the Bible they do not like. It is usually a verse that is dealing with sin. The secular person will say, "You are just picking and choosing verse to suit your own agenda." It means, one would have an agenda from the secular point of view is not right. They don't want the conviction in other words.
 
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Lulav

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xDenax said:
I don't do or not do anything because of "conviction". That's basically doing whatever you feel like doing.
Ah, yes, the old "pick and choose". Is that what "convicted" means?
Deciding on one's own that one should do something?
I never quite understood the term as related to Christianity.
No, it's not doing what you feel like doing, it's more of following your inner voice, your conscience, which everyone has so it's not just related to Christianity. ;)
 
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ChavaK

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No, it's not doing what you feel like doing, it's more of following your inner voice, your conscience, which everyone has so it's not just related to Christianity. ;)

Is that believing that G-d is directing you to choose something-in which case who is right if two people believe opposite things? Or is it a self-directed
decision?
 
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ContraMundum

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Is that believing that G-d is directing you to choose something-in which case who is right if two people believe opposite things? Or is it a self-directed
decision?

Like anything in any Judeo-Christian belief system- it's a synthesis of God's leading or direction and man's will etc. Religion has a way of both uniting people and dividing them, so one could come to the logical conclusion that God's specific will or personal direction is often hard to discern.

In the dilemma of who is right when two people believe opposite things, again that must come down to personal decisions. Some people are happy to defer to what they regard as God's authority on earth (eg. the rabbis/sages or the Magisterium/Councils) while others may choose to find their own more personal guidance. I think the most mature and sane approach is to just accept that God allows a lot of diversity, for some unrevealed reason.
 
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Lulav

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Is that believing that G-d is directing you to choose something-in which case who is right if two people believe opposite things? Or is it a self-directed
decision?
And now my answer to your question. ;) I don't think it's about a directing. We have G-ds word. That is what every thought, decision and action should be measured against.

It comes down to feelings, yes, as I said, the 'conscience', but more than that.

An example, someone in authority tells you to do something, logically you should go along with them as everyone else would, but you feel a 'check' or going back to a simpler time, in Biblical times, a 'gut feeling'. This is then taken to HaShem in prayer. Passages already written are directed to and two witnesses confirm. Sure, your person wages war, you don't want to look silly, stupid, nonconforming, it's best to go along with the crowd, right? But you must do G-ds will and not yours, no matter how it makes you look to other people, it is best to worry about how you look to G-d.

Now of course very few use this interpretation and that is where the trouble and confusion and chaos comes in.
 
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1Sam24:12

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Yes I wear tzit tzit. I don't buy them though. The Father commanded that we make for ourselves the fringe and so I make them for my own household. :) I love the way the Father knew that when we make them for ourselves that we would have a connection with that very reminder to observe to do all of His commands.

{ Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: 39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.}
~ Numbers 15:38-40
 
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ChavaK

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Yes I wear tzit tzit. I don't buy them though. The Father commanded that we make for ourselves the fringe and so I make them for my own household. :) I love the way the Father knew that when we make them for ourselves that we would have a connection with that very reminder to observe to do all of His commands.
How did you determine how to make them-style of tying, materials, and how to wear them? If one does not wear a four cornered garment, do you still wear them? How do you determine method of wearing-tallis katan, belt loops, or whatever?
 
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1Sam24:12

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I determined by scripture. The Father doesn't command that the fringe be made in a certain way other than there should be a fringe with a blue ribbon. So far I have gone by the Rabbinic tradition of tying them. I also use 100% cotton for my fringe.
I wear them on belt loops for the time being. I am considering making 4 cornered tops to accommodate wearing the tzit tzit.
I would like to add that we don't wear tzit tzit in order to make a religious statement, but for the very reason the Father commanded it; so that we'll look upon them and remember to do His commands. Because of this, I find it to be an honor and a privilege to wear them and in no way feel that it is a burdensome command. :)
 
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ChavaK

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I determined by scripture. The Father doesn't command that the fringe be made in a certain way other than there should be a fringe with a blue ribbon. So far I have gone by the Rabbinic tradition of tying them. I also use 100% cotton for my fringe.
I wear them on belt loops for the time being. I am considering making 4 cornered tops to accommodate wearing the tzit tzit.
I would like to add that we don't wear tzit tzit in order to make a religious statement, but for the very reason the Father commanded it; so that we'll look upon them and remember to do His commands. Because of this, I find it to be an honor and a privilege to wear them and in no way feel that it is a burdensome command. :)

Thanks for the answer....did you feel self conscious at all when you first started wearing them? Have people come up and asked you about them?
 
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1Sam24:12

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Thanks for the answer....did you feel self conscious at all when you first started wearing them? Have people come up and asked you about them?

No problem. :) I wouldn't say self conscious. It does hold as a reminder to obey the commandments though.
The only time I've been asked about the tzit tzit was from a young lady from Israel when I was at the mall about 7 years ago. She told me that Jewish women don't wear tzit tzit and thought it was neat that my daughters and I wore them.
 
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etZion

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No problem. :) I wouldn't say self conscious. It does hold as a reminder to obey the commandments though.
The only time I've been asked about the tzit tzit was from a young lady from Israel when I was at the mall about 7 years ago. She told me that Jewish women don't wear tzit tzit and thought it was neat that my daughters and I wore them.

That person told you wrong, there is a Jewish group in Israel called Women at the Wall, and they not only wear tallit katan(tzitzit), they also wear tallit gadol(Prayer shawl), they also wear kippot, etc.

More power to the women who seek truth... :thumbsup:
 
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That person told you wrong, there is a Jewish group in Israel called Women at the Wall, and they not only wear tallit katan(tzitzit), they also wear tallit gadol(Prayer shawl), they also wear kippot, etc.

More power to the women who seek truth... :thumbsup:

That's really awesome! Thanks for sharing that bit of info.
 
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