Why the Demand for Catholic Priest celibacy?

[mikpat]

I"m afraid that defending Catholicism on this board is not the proper thing to do since anti Catholic speech is never mentioned by the administrators. One poster (115) refers to Catholic religious practices as not only derived from pagan rituals but as, just a pile of "claptrap". Not a proper term for people who choose to love and honor their God. Besides the list of practices mentioned can be found in many religions, both East and West.

The power of anti - Catholicism lies in its infinite adaptibility. In different times and places, different kinds of anti - papist rhetoric have been in evidence, but none has entirely vanished from view. Each is ready to rise again when it meets the needs of a particular political movement or some interest group.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I"m afraid that defending Catholicism on this board is not the proper thing to do since anti Catholic speech is never mentioned by the administrators. One poster (115) refers to Catholic religious practices as not only derived from pagan rituals but as, just a pile of "claptrap". Not a proper term for people who choose to love and honor their God. Besides the list of practices mentioned can be found in many religions, both East and West.

The power of anti - Catholicism lies in its infinite adaptibility. In different times and places, different kinds of anti - papist rhetoric have been in evidence, but none has entirely vanished from view. Each is ready to rise again when it meets the needs of a particular political movement or some interest group.

Very true. It's worth remembering that, the name of this page notwithstanding, Christian Forums is owned by a non-Christian and operated by people who are very likely anti-Christian.

One could try explaining to the anti-Catholic maniacs that the Church has used certain symbols for centuries and then later some pagan weirdos came along and hijacked those symbols but it gets nowhere. The anti-Catholic types all subscribe to a strangebrew guilt by association mentality that eliminates any need for critical thinking. I tend not to pay them too much attention.

 

[Albion]

Very true. It's worth remembering that, the name of this page notwithstanding, Christian Forums is owned by a non-Christian and operated by people who are very likely anti-Christian.

If that were correct, it would not be the case that it's easy to get into trouble with the moderators here for implying something unkind about Catholicism while the other side can say, with impunity, that churches other than the RCC are invalid, not part of the church Christ founded, and the like.

 

[mikpat]

There's a big difference between posting the term "claptrap" regarding the religious practices of a religion and someone referring to some one's religious practices as "invalid". One can discuss the term validity, invalid etc. but the term "claptrap" is insulting.

Besides, the Protestant Reformation was all about invalidating the Catholic Church, which included many views about the Catholic priesthood, about transubstantiation, about the saints, Vigin Mary, sola Scriptura, justification by faith alone, reconciliation, emancipation of papal authority etc..
It was stated that the rapidity of Protestant progress was proof that God was on the side of the Reformers, inspiring, fostering and crowning their endeavors.
Of course all of the reformatory movements invalidated the existing Catholic Church and its teaching, that was the goal of the Reformation. By freeing the mind from Roman thraldom, it opened the way for religious freedom and political liberty.


AMDG

 

[mikpat]

The beginning of perhaps the first obligation of clerical celibacy, namely the commitment to continence, Luke 18:28-30.
"I tell you solemnly there is no one who has left house, wife, brothers, parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not be given repayment many times over in this present age and in the world to come, eternal life."

Celibacy was not used in the early days——continence was the correct term.

 

[Albion]

That passage isn't saying that it's obligatory, however. If it were, no practicing Christian (and no cleric) could, in good conscience, have a family or live in a house, either.

 

[Paidiske]

There's a big difference between posting the term "claptrap" regarding the religious practices of a religion and someone referring to some one's religious practices as "invalid". One can discuss the term validity, invalid etc. but the term "claptrap" is insulting.

Describing someone's ordination, sacraments, or religious practice in general as "invalid" is, in my experience, just as hurtful and problematic as calling them claptrap. Indeed it seems that invalid is just a euphemism in these situations.

 

[thecolorsblend]

There's a big difference between posting the term "claptrap" regarding the religious practices of a religion and someone referring to some one's religious practices as "invalid". One can discuss the term validity, invalid etc. but the term "claptrap" is insulting.

I understand the point you're making. And I even agree that our goal should be grace, honor and respect for the people with whom we engage on CF.

But the simple fact of the matter though is that Christians in general hold to a lot of beliefs that are irreconcilable with one another. An evangelical that I'm friends with has very different views about Christianity, doctrine and so forth than I do. We disagree on a great many issues.

Logically then, between me and my friend, at least one of us is wrong. It's possible that we're both wrong about doctrine. But he and I can't both be right about doctrine. And if God is concerned with doctrine (which I believe to be a reasonable assumption) then at least one of us could be in for a very rude awakening when we're judged.

It's a warm, fuzzy thing to say that all opinion are equally valid. But the truth is, valid or not, some ideas are correct which necessarily means the opposite of those ideas must be wrong. For better or worse, I've hitched my wagon to the Catholic Church. We should be nice to each other but I don't see why we should affirm beliefs we suspect to be in grave error.

Besides, the Protestant Reformation was all about invalidating the Catholic Church, which included many views about the Catholic priesthood, about transubstantiation, about the saints, Vigin Mary, sola Scriptura, justification by faith alone, reconciliation, emancipation of papal authority etc..

So they had no use for the doctrines about Our Lady, eh?

 

[YoureMyBeloved]

My family is friends with a priest who gave his opinion on this subject, he said if he were married his wife and kids would feel neglected since he had to travel a lot so he understood why priests should be celibate. "Even Peter left everything" he claimed.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Since marriage is not a sin, why were Catholic priests forced into such a precarious situation? Doesn't common sense tell us that most men who feel forced to accept such a situation will have trouble?

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

This covers it nicely. THERE IS NO BIBLICAL REASON for a Catholic Priest to be Celibate - period.

Simple as that.

 

[Radrook]

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

This covers it nicely. THERE IS NO BIBLICAL REASON for a Catholic Priest to be Celibate - period.

Simple as that.

Well, they will point to Jesus statement concerning men who make themselves eunuch's for the sake of the kingdom and the Apostle Paul's example of celibacy and his expressed wish that all Christians would imitate him. But that doesn't justify an official Church demand that all who serve as spiritual shepherds MUST be celibate, of course.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Well, they will point to Jesus statement concerning men who make themselves eunuch's for the sake of the kingdom and the Apostle Paul's example of celibacy and his expressed wish that all Christians would imitate him. But that doesn't justify an official Church demand that all who serve as spiritual shepherds MUST be celibate, of course.

Hmm. "Sacred Scripture may permit this but dang it I don't like this practice so obviously it's wrong!"

Incidentally, there are married priests who serve faithfully in the Catholic Church.

 

[Radrook]

Hmm. "Sacred Scripture may permit this but dang it I don't like this practice so obviously it's wrong!"

Incidentally, there are married priests who serve faithfully in the Catholic Church.

You seriously misunderstood. Sacred scripture allows for the individual to choose celibacy. Sacred scripture does not DEMAND celibacy.

BTW
Just recently a Catholic Priest was forced to leave the Catholic Church and become a Protestant in order to remain a priest albeit in a different denomination. I posted that info. However, if indeed there has been a Catholic policy change concerning priesthood requirements then that is good.

 

[thecolorsblend]

You seriously misunderstood. Sacred scripture allows for the individual to choose celibacy. Sacred scripture does not DEMAND celibacy.

Nor does the Church demand celibacy. If a Catholic wants to marry, he can. He simply can't be a priest in the Roman rite in many (though not all) circumstances. The Eastern rites have married priests as well.

BTW
Just recently a Catholic Priest was forced to leave the Catholic Church and become a Protestant in order to remain a priest albeit in a different denomination. I posted that info. However, if indeed there has been a Catholic policy change concerning priesthood requirements then that is good.

Even if the policy did get revised, it wouldn't change things for priests currently serving very much. Seminarians might be interested in it though.

 

[Radrook]

Nor does the Church demand celibacy. If a Catholic wants to marry, he can. He simply can't be a priest in the Roman rite in many (though not all) circumstances. The Eastern rites have married priests as well.

Even if the policy did get revised, it wouldn't change things for priests currently serving very much. Seminarians might be interested in it though.

I disagree that a change in present Catholic policy for those in the priesthood would leave present Catholic priests stuck where they are. Where do you get such an idea from?

BTW
I never said that the official CC celibacy policy applied or applies to all Catholics.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I disagree that a change in present Catholic policy for those in the priesthood would leave present Catholic priests stuck where they are. Where do you get such an idea from?

Many have taken vows of celibacy.

 

[Radrook]

Many have taken vows of celibacy.

Those vows were taken with what those seminary students considered to have been informed consent. In short, that they had been properly scripturally informed. If indeed it turns out that they had NOT been accurately scripturally informed, then that nullifies the vows since any agreement entered upon without informed consent can be legally classified as null.

Examples:
I was baptized into an organization under the illusion that I had done so after being accurately informed.
However, as I found out to my horror and dismay several weeks later, certain very crucial organizational details, such as disfellowshipping and snubbing of sinners had been omitted.

That invalidates the whole agreement.

Ever see the film Avatar where the female Latina pilot refuses to open fire on the natives and she turns her gunship around back to base? Her words were: "I didn't sign up for this!"
Neither had the Marine Sully signed up for that and he refused to keep his Marine vows.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Those vows were taken with what those seminary students considered to have been informed consent. In short, that they had been properly scripturally informed. If indeed it turns out that they had NOT been accurately scripturally informed, then that nullifies the vows since any agreement entered upon without informed consent can be legally classified as null.

Do you consider Mormons to be "accurately scripturally informed"?

 

[Radrook]

Do you consider Mormons to be "accurately scripturally informed"?

What I think concerning their vows is irrelevant to how they feel and what they are entitled to do as a consequence if they are suddenly told that they had been misinformed.

 

[thecolorsblend]

What I think concerning their vows is irrelevant to how they feel and what they are entitled to do as a consequence if they are suddenly told that they had been misinformed.

That isn't what I asked.

Do you believe they're "properly scripturally informed"?