Univeralist Icons for CF

[Heber]

Oi vey -thanks to whoever gave all those Reps. Your details are not shown on my User CP interface so I cannot thank you direct!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think Hell gets confused with Heck. People who don't believe in Gosh are darned to Heck. But that's for another thread....

I wish I would have saved all the threads started just on "hell" that were on the now "defunct" GA board.....

 

[allandnull]

Surely, if universalism is true and all will be reconciled to G_d eventually, what is the point of having CF. There is absolutely no need for debate or concern about anything to do with G_d because he will save us all, regardless. We may as well just do and say whatever we wish in our lives because it will make no difference ultimately!

If what you desire to do is wickedness and you only turn from it due to fear, then you've got a long way to go with your transformation!

I'm not saying God won't chasten you beyond this life. I think He does. One can also be resurrected to judgment. While it seems from Scripture that, no matter what it takes or how long it takes, God will get everyone clean and belonging to Him, it also seems a shame to have to come such a hard way as some will have to take.

A friend of mine from South Africa, Bernie Kruger, posted this (excerpted) in answer to your question:

The problem once hell is removed from the equation, "what are we saved from then?" or "That gives me licence to live as I please etc."

Anyone who comes up with those kinds of question have only Fire Insurance

The saved from what comes from the very first verse in Matt that speaks about save.

"..to save His people from their sins" Mat 1:23

If you think UR or CU as we call it gives licence to sin, be my guest, go sin, go do drugs, go to the brothels, don't use a condom, drink excessive amounts of alcohol, go beat up your wife and kids, sexually molest children, go rob a convenience store, beat up some ol lady tramp, drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs, kill someone in this state.

Go on go live the good life.

Hmm, does not sound too enticing does it?

Yes sin has consequences. All of the the "good life" examples illustrated above, have consequences in the here and now. Now even and Atheist would likely not do these things. Drugs will kill you eventually, promiscuity will lead to venereal diseases, excessive alcohol consumption; cirrhosis of the liver, and the rest a hefty fine, suspension or more likely jail time. Does that sound like the good life?

No, I guess not.

See that is what Jesus came to save us from, the consequences of our sins. Through His Holy Spirit we are able to overcome our weaknesses.

If fear of Eternal Torment is the only reason you serve Jesus then you are a false disciple, a pious one at best and most likely one that has a measure of self righteousness. Read up on the Pharisees, see how Jesus dealt with their attitudes, they all thought they had it right and most of the hell verses Jesus speaks of is in direct correlation to them, the pious, righteous, whitewashed tombs.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but anyone needing hell to be real, does not know the true heart of our Father.

Is it not ironic, the books on hell that reinforce the pious and self righteous views of salvation are such hot sellers? Why are the heaven visions not so popular? See where I am going with this, there is a verse that explains this:

Pro 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
Pro 23:7a For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
................................................
I would add that the gospel is about the love of God, which is how Jesus said you would know His disciples: by their love one for another. Scripture also says, "Fear is not in love,but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:18)

 

[Heber]

I was reflecting, in that post, on the dangers of universalism, not promoting the effects!

 

[Rajni]

If what you desire to do is wickedness and you only turn from it due to fear, then you've got a long way to go with your transformation!

I'm not saying God won't chasten you beyond this life. I think He does. One can also be resurrected to judgment. While it seems from Scripture that, no matter what it takes or how long it takes, God will get everyone clean and belonging to Him, it also seems a shame to have to come such a hard way as some will have to take.

A friend of mine from South Africa, Bernie Kruger, posted this (excerpted) in answer to your question:

The problem once hell is removed from the equation, "what are we saved from then?" or "That gives me licence to live as I please etc."

Anyone who comes up with those kinds of question have only Fire Insurance

The saved from what comes from the very first verse in Matt that speaks about save.

"..to save His people from their sins" Mat 1:23

If you think UR or CU as we call it gives licence to sin, be my guest, go sin, go do drugs, go to the brothels, don't use a condom, drink excessive amounts of alcohol, go beat up your wife and kids, sexually molest children, go rob a convenience store, beat up some ol lady tramp, drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs, kill someone in this state.

Go on go live the good life.

Hmm, does not sound too enticing does it?

Yes sin has consequences. All of the the "good life" examples illustrated above, have consequences in the here and now. Now even and Atheist would likely not do these things. Drugs will kill you eventually, promiscuity will lead to venereal diseases, excessive alcohol consumption; cirrhosis of the liver, and the rest a hefty fine, suspension or more likely jail time. Does that sound like the good life?

No, I guess not.

See that is what Jesus came to save us from, the consequences of our sins. Through His Holy Spirit we are able to overcome our weaknesses.

If fear of Eternal Torment is the only reason you serve Jesus then you are a false disciple, a pious one at best and most likely one that has a measure of self righteousness. Read up on the Pharisees, see how Jesus dealt with their attitudes, they all thought they had it right and most of the hell verses Jesus speaks of is in direct correlation to them, the pious, righteous, whitewashed tombs.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but anyone needing hell to be real, does not know the true heart of our Father.

Is it not ironic, the books on hell that reinforce the pious and self righteous views of salvation are such hot sellers? Why are the heaven visions not so popular? See where I am going with this, there is a verse that explains this:

Pro 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
Pro 23:7a For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
................................................
I would add that the gospel is about the love of God, which is how Jesus said you would know His disciples: by their love one for another. Scripture also says, "Fear is not in love,but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:18)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is it not ironic, the books on hell that reinforce the pious and self righteous views of salvation are such hot sellers? Why are the heaven visions not so popular? See where I am going with this, there is a verse that explains this:

 

[allandnull]

From the viewpoint of the 72 virgins, they must think they're in the opposite place.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Universalist theology belongs down in general apologetics or somewhere else for non-christian discussion.

Yep. Unorthodox.

 

[squint]

Yep. Unorthodox.

Oh puhleese.

"In 2005 Cardinal Murphy O'Connor, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, reiterated that Universal Salvation was entirely compatible with Catholic teaching and expressed his personal hope for universal salvation."

 

[Tonks]

Are we supposed to take O'Connor's statement as the final authority or something? Surprising that folks dig out Catholic comments when it suits them yet trashes them when they do not...

 

[Floatingaxe]

Oh puhleese.

"In 2005 Cardinal Murphy O'Connor, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, reiterated that Universal Salvation was entirely compatible with Catholic teaching and expressed his personal hope for universal salvation."

Catholics belong in unorthodox, too, then, according to their ever-changing, watered-down, compromising beliefs that lack spiritual understanding.

 

[squint]

Catholics belong in unorthodox, too, then, according to their ever-changing, watered-down, compromising beliefs that lack spiritual understanding.

The crux of these matters between us ALL is that we are to LOVE ALL of our neighbors as ourselves.

This is THE LAW and THE PROPHETS and you would be 'wise' to find that understanding with your fellow mankind.

Faith 'works' THROUGH love.

Got sum?

enjoy!

squint

 

[Floatingaxe]

The crux of these matters between us ALL is that we are to LOVE ALL of our neighbors as ourselves.

This is THE LAW and THE PROPHETS and you would be 'wise' to find that understanding with your fellow mankind.

Faith 'works' THROUGH love.

Got sum?

enjoy!

squint

Yeah, just get the forums right. I'm all for an UR icon! We don't need the grief added to us that comes from the their aberrant doctrine. If I see their icon, I can make my decision to obey God, and do right...


Romans 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.

 

[squint]

Yeah, just get the forums right. I'm all for an UR icon! We don't need the grief added to us that comes from the their aberrant doctrine.

When you start terming RCC doctrine errant and aberrant you immediately place yourself in the category you seek to send other peoples 'structures' to.

If I see their icon, I can make my decision to obey God, and do right...

Adherence to a 'sect' doesn't make one 'right.'

Just as charismatics are spread across the spectrum of denominations, so are christian universalists.

enjoy!

squint

 

[simonthezealot]

I think something like this may work...

 

[Floatingaxe]

Anyway--I am looking forward to the UR sect members having their own icon and their own forum!










(So I can avoid it like the plague.)

 

[squint]

Anyway--I am looking forward to the UR sect members having their own icon and their own forum!

(So I can avoid it like the plague.)

Yeah, you SURE wouldn't wannabe found by Jesus loving all your neighbors as yourself. HEAVEN FORBID!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Neighbours?

I have loved enough to give the truth of the Word of God, but the voice of the enemy of God was returned. So, in obedience to the Word, we are to shake the dust off our feet and keep walking.

An icon would make that easier.

 

[squint]

Neighbours?

Oh, yeah. We should all paste BIG LABELS over our heads so we KNOW how utterly DIVIDED we ALL are.

Luke 10:29
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Sound familiar?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Oh, yeah. We should all paste BIG LABELS over our heads so we KNOW how utterly DIVIDED we ALL are.

Luke 10:29
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Sound familiar?

I want to obey God when I encounter those who consistently spurn truth. A neighbour doesn't do that--an enemy does. We are to expose those who preach things contrary to God. Then we are to avoid those who persist to be contrary and divisive.

Let's be wise. An UR icon and a forum section will help us.