There is NO rapture!!!

[Gnarwhal]

This is a very good example of spiritualizing everything written in the bible, This is really bad Hermeneutics, If you interpret the bible this way, were do you start or end this spiritualizing. Is the story of Jesus real or is it to all spiritual allegory, I've tried to debate spiritualizers, and found you can't! because none of the written word of God is as what it says, they always spiritualize reality away, Its a really strange belief system! and talk about confusing!

Subjective.

It's not 'overspiritualizing', but it is recognizing multiple elements within the Scriptures, including Jewish literary forms, the context of Scripture and the audience of Scripture. All factors which play a significant role in understanding it's nature and message.

As far as 'overspiritualizers' being 'undebatable', the same can be said for literalists.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Well, since the rapture will happen well before the second coming your point is .............pointless.

However, what 1 Thessalonians 4 is talking about is Christ's return,

"Indeed, we tell you t his, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first." - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16

The first word is παρουσίαν, meaning "appearing", however the latter is a rather clear καταβήσεται, it is the Lord's descent, His coming down to here that it mentions. When the Lord appears--compare to the Olivet Discourse, particularly Matthew 24:30--it will be at His return. And, in regard to how obvious it is, so that we don't go chasing after pretenders and rumors in the wilderness, "For wheresoever the corpse is, there will the vultures be gathered together"(verse 28).

That is, when the Lord comes at His Parousia, there will be no doubt, no question, it will be obvious. He will come down, descend and we will meet Him, like a royal welcoming party for a returning King.

I know this won't sway anyone, but the simple fact is that 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't have anything to say about a "rapture" as defined in popular Dispensationalist eschatology. It's not there, and no honest or critical reading of the text can put it there.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[4runner]

I know this won't sway anyone, but the simple fact is that 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't have anything to say about a "rapture" as defined in popular Dispensationalist eschatology. It's not there, and no honest or critical reading of the text can put it there.

-CryptoLutheran

This is true, but it does speak of the catchng up of the living saints at Christ 2nd coming, which is what is taught by the postrib believers. Althouh the dispensational petrib view is false, there will be a rapture, just not the rapture that is taught by pretrib dispensationalist.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Subjective.

It's not 'overspiritualizing', but it is recognizing multiple elements within the Scriptures, including Jewish literary forms, the context of Scripture and the audience of Scripture. All factors which play a significant role in understanding it's nature and message.

As far as 'overspiritualizers' being 'undebatable', the same can be said for literalists.

A very simple case can be made in this regard over the controversy over Communion/the Eucharist. As it happens I know very few who take an overtly "literal" view of Scripture who also believe in the corporeal presence of Jesus in the bread and the wine, and are quick to say that Jesus' word "is" is simply symbolic, a metaphor.

I'm not going to go off on that tangent, but I think it's a fairly obvious demonstration that we all use hermeneutics that apply varying levels of literality , allegory, metaphor (etc); and it usually simply boils down to how we apply those categories to the varied and numerous texts of Sacred Writ. And more often then not we are doing so from within the context of a received hermeneutic which we have gained via the tradition we are presently in. A Catholic, Orthodox or Lutheran will, for example, understand Jesus' statement as a categorical affirmation of the Real Presence; whereas the spiritual descendants of Calvin or Zwingli will likely either embrace a position either on Spiritual Presence (Calvin) or Memorialism (Zwingli).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CryptoLutheran]

This is true, but it does speak of the catchng up of the living saints at Christ 2nd coming, which is what is taught by the postrib believers. Althouh the dispensational petrib view is false, there will be a rapture, just not the rapture that is taught by pretrib dispensationalist.

I suspect that the reason why many of us are uncomfortable with the terminology of "rapture" has largely to do with its association with Dispensationalism; and for many of us we prefer to simply use the historic language of Scripture and the Creeds, namely our hope in the future resurrection of the body.

Insofar as "rapture" is an Anglicanization of the Vulgata's rapiemur; then I don't think there's any issue. The problem comes in when the assortment of extraneous "stuff" is attached to the word as it has come to be through popular Dispensational eschatology.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gnarwhal]

I suspect that the reason why many of us are uncomfortable with the terminology of "rapture" has largely to do with its association with Dispensationalism; and for many of us we prefer to simply use the historic language of Scripture and the Creeds, namely our hope in the future resurrection of the body.

Insofar as "rapture" is an Anglicanization of the Vulgata's rapiemur; then I don't think there's any issue. The problem comes in when the assortment of extraneous "stuff" is attached to the word as it has come to be through popular Dispensational eschatology.

-CryptoLutheran

Well said.

 

[4runner]

I suspect that the reason why many of us are uncomfortable with the terminology of "rapture" has largely to do with its association with Dispensationalism; and for many of us we prefer to simply use the historic language of Scripture and the Creeds, namely our hope in the future resurrection of the body.

Insofar as "rapture" is an Anglicanization of the Vulgata's rapiemur; then I don't think there's any issue. The problem comes in when the assortment of extraneous "stuff" is attached to the word as it has come to be through popular Dispensational eschatology.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree dispensational eschatology is the problem.

 

[realtruth101]

A very simple case can be made in this regard over the controversy over Communion/the Eucharist. As it happens I know very few who take an overtly "literal" view of Scripture who also believe in the corporeal presence of Jesus in the bread and the wine, and are quick to say that Jesus' word "is" is simply symbolic, a metaphor.

I'm not going to go off on that tangent, but I think it's a fairly obvious demonstration that we all use hermeneutics that apply varying levels of literality , allegory, metaphor (etc); and it usually simply boils down to how we apply those categories to the varied and numerous texts of Sacred Writ. And more often then not we are doing so from within the context of a received hermeneutic which we have gained via the tradition we are presently in. A Catholic, Orthodox or Lutheran will, for example, understand Jesus' statement as a categorical affirmation of the Real Presence; whereas the spiritual descendants of Calvin or Zwingli will likely either embrace a position either on Spiritual Presence (Calvin) or Memorialism (Zwingli).

-CryptoLutheran

......No I wouldn't believe Jesus meant it was actually His body and actually His real blood because He Himself refered to it as "this fruit of the vine" Mathew 26:29 YES HERMENEUTICS ARE IMPORTANT!

 

[LovedofHim]

First of all, thank you for your response, LovedofHim.

I'm sure you have plenty more such as you've cited above. However, given that heaven is the dwelling place of God, and that God is spirit, heaven isn't really a 'place' with extension in spatial terms. That is to say, it's not like we could send a rocket up into space and then definitively point it to where heaven is.
And certainly, Jesus' ascension to the Father was naturally 'up'. But couldn't that direction have been for purely symbolic purposes? I mean, strictly speaking, all he really needed to do was rise up to the nearest cloud in order to get across to his disciples that he was going to heaven. He couldn't very well have achieved the same thing by moving sideways. (And obviously, moving 'down' would have communicated the exact opposite message.)

But that said, the testimony of Scripture is that, far from heaven being actually 'up' in relation to ourselves (after all, my 'up' here in Canada is entirely different from the 'up' of somebody living in, say, Argentina -- which is essentially my 'down'), heaven is really here. It's simply that we're not able to fully perceive heaven because we're on the wrong, fallen side of the veil that separates the two realities.
For example, when Elisha's servant awoke deathly afraid to find the city in which they were completely surrounded by the Aramean army, Elisha assured him by explaining that "those who are with us are more than those who are with them." He then prayed that God would "open his eyes that he may see," whereupon he saw the heavenly host waiting there ready to protect them (2 Kgs 6.15-19).
Moreover, when God renews creation, heaven and earth will be one and the same, the way it was always meant to be (as in Gen 1&2). Note also that Jesus teaches us to pray that God's will be done here on earth just as it is in heaven. Additionally, notice in Revelation 21 where the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly city, descends from heaven to earth (not the other way around), thus symbolizing God's ultimate uniting of heaven and earth. Furthermore, we're told that at this time: "I heard a loud voice from the throne say, 'See! God's home (Gk. skene, 'tabernacle') is with mankind, and he will live (Gk. skenosei, 'tabernacle') with them. They will be his people, and he himself, God-with-them, will be their God'" (Rev. 21.3). Especially noteworthy is that this "loud voice" quotes from a catena of OT texts; namely Lev 26.11-12: "Moreover, I will make my dwelling (lit. 'tabernacle') among you, and my Spirit will not reject you. I will also walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people" (see also Jer 31.33); Isa 7.14: "...and she will call his name Immanuel (i.e. 'God-with-us'; see also Isa 8.8, 10); and Ezek 37.27: "My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people" (see also John 1.14).
Thus, the overwhelming witness of Scripture is that, far from us going to be with God in heaven, God's desire is to come and be with us here on earth.

Wow, you've really created a whole new gospel for yourself, haven't you? According to the gospel of "dcyates", "heaven is earth". But the problem of that, you see, is your fleshly mind. You are trying to rationalize the spiritual into a box that you can understand.

You are uncomfortable with the idea that there is a spiritual place called heaven where people can actually go that is not earth.

And yes, the earth is God's footstool and God and mankind will once again dwell in harmony together.

The church's citizenship is in heaven. And the "place prepared" for us in the "Father's House" is a city prepared for us there called the New Jerusalem on Mt. Zion above.

Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hbr 11:16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Wow, you've really created a whole new gospel for yourself, haven't you? According to the gospel of "dcyates", "heaven is earth". But the problem of that, you see, is your fleshly mind. You are trying to rationalize the spiritual into a box that you can understand.

You are uncomfortable with the idea that there is a spiritual place called heaven where people can actually go that is not earth.

And yes, the earth is God's footstool and God and mankind will once again dwell in harmony together.

The church's citizenship is in heaven. And the "place prepared" for us in the "Father's House" is a city prepared for us there called the New Jerusalem on Mt. Zion above.

Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Hbr 11:16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

So condescending. In reference to Pauls first letter to the Corinthians, you're sounding like a clanging cymbal.

This isn't some made-up gospel, first of all he's not proclaiming a different savior. Secondly, he's subscribing to a widely held belief that traces back to the fathers of the church.

 

[Heavens]

[/size][/b]
Thanks for your response, 4runner.

Where is there a 'rapture' even hinted at in this passage?!?
This is referring to our transfiguration from corruptible bodies into incorruptible and the general resurrection of the dead.

I'm sorry, 4runner, but I have to disagree with your assessment of this text. This doesn't support the concept of the rapture as it is commonly understood. Too often this is seen as describing the Christian's journey to heaven with Christ. However, the Greek word for 'meet' (apantesis), in v. 17 above, bore very distinct connotations in the ancient Greco-Roman world. It designated an event where either the emperor or some other dignitary was making an official visit to a given town or city, the citizens of that city, or a delegation of citizens, would expressly go out from the city to meet the emperor or dignitary and then escort them the rest of the way into their city. What is therefore being discussed here is not a 'rapture' where Christians are whisked off to heaven, but rather where Paul intended to comfort his audience by assuring them that they and their now-dead loved ones have indeed placed their lives in the correct hands; that is, that Jesus is Lord, not Caesar.​

Excellent post. Truth here

 

[LovedofHim]

So condescending. In reference to Pauls first letter to the Corinthians, you're sounding like a clanging cymbal.

This isn't some made-up gospel, first of all he's not proclaiming a different savior. Secondly, he's subscribing to a widely held belief that traces back to the fathers of the church.

Heaven is above. Earth is below. These are two different places.

Jhn 8:23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.


When death is no more at the end of the millenium, because the last enemy destroyed is death, the city of God will come down.

Revelation 21


1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is why the people of the earth practice the feast of tabernacles during the millenium - in preparation for what comes at the end of the millenium.


Zech 14: 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

 

[4runner]

Excellent post. Truth here

The truth is what dcyateshadescribed is the post trib rapture.

 

[Heavens]

while i do not like the word rapture, as i believe it is misleading,
there certainly is a gathering to Christ, at the end of the tribulation events

it is detailed in many scriptures, including 1Thes4:13-forward...
but Paul even clarified the message of what happens at the Lord's return in 1Thes4,
when he wrote 2Thes2 and further explained what had to happen first...

1Cor15 and Mat24/Mar13 cover the same gathering to Christ

but the Lord is Coming here....those faithful believers alive at His Coming, shall be gathered to Him....here.

Unscriptural terms will always lead astray...

Each of us in our own time, at the end of our lives of 'tribulation', are gathered unto Christ. (tribulation is not a futuristic calendar singular event)

Also, the word "Return" does not occur in the New Testament but a handful of times, Never does it refer to a "future" event.
The one place it occurs, is in Acts 15 where it is explicitly stating that God returned as Promised and fulfilled Amos 9.

Christ has Come INTO His believers and established the Kingdom of God in the 'earth' of our 'earthen' bodies. The majority of the world doesn't see it of course.

1 Cor 15 simply describes our resurrection in store for us. Many have already left this world and come forth as described in 1 John 3:2.

Mark 13 simply covers the happenings in AD 70 as well as describing the way by which God preaches the gospel through us, His messengers, in bringing Christ into us, the "gathering". This has been going on for 2000 years now.

The religion of "futurism"... I thank God to have been delivered out of that

 

[Gnarwhal]

Heaven is above. Earth is below. These are two different places.

Jhn 8:23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

When death is no more at the end of the millenium, because the last enemy destroyed is death, the city of God will come down.

Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is why the people of the earth practice the feast of tabernacles during the millenium - in preparation for what comes at the end of the millenium.


Zech 14: 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

The word "ano" denotes the heavenly realm, which is here, though constituting a different space and time separate from our own.

The veil separates the fallen world from heaven, Gods throne room. In ancient Judaism it was believed that the sacredness of the holy of holies came from the fact that the aforementioned veil was thin, and the space and time God occupies was nearly present in our own.

When Christ returns and the dead are resurrected, Gods space and time will merge with ours, forming the New Creation.

Unscriptural terms will always lead astray...

Each of us in our own time, at the end of our lives of 'tribulation', are gathered unto Christ. (tribulation is not a futuristic calendar singular event)

Also, the word "Return" does not occur in the New Testament but a handful of times, Never does it refer to a "future" event.
The one place it occurs, is in Acts 15 where it is explicitly stating that God returned as Promised and fulfilled Amos 9.

Christ has Come INTO His believers and established the Kingdom of God in the 'earth' of our 'earthen' bodies. The majority of the world doesn't see it of course.

1 Cor 15 simply describes our resurrection in store for us. Many have already left this world and come forth as described in 1 John 3:2.

Mark 13 simply covers the happenings in AD 70 as well as describing the way by which God preaches the gospel through us, His messengers, in bringing Christ into us, the "gathering". This has been going on for 2000 years now.

The religion of "futurism"... I thank God to have been delivered out of that

Im thankful for being delivered as well!

 

[LovedofHim]

The word "ano" denotes the heavenly realm, which is here, though constituting a different space and time separate from our own.



Im thankful for being delivered as well!

You know what, I could not care less if you guys want to use your earthly minds and rationalize heaven as some alternate dimension or whatever - maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

I will trust the scriptures. Jesus ASCENDED, meaning he went UP. Jesus will descend and then reascend at the sound of the trumpet that calls us to Him. The church will be caught UP. Jesus will come on the clouds of the heavens which is UP in the sky.

 

[Gnarwhal]

You know what, I could not care less if you guys want to use your earthly minds and rationalize heaven as some alternate dimension or whatever - maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

I will trust the scriptures. Jesus ASCENDED, meaning he went UP. Jesus will descend and then reascend at the sound of the trumpet that calls us to Him. The church will be caught UP. Jesus will come on the clouds of the heavens which is UP in the sky.

Wow. What a wonderfully priggish and arrogant post.

 

[Heavens]

Psalm 50


1The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
2Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
3Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
4He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
5Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. 6And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

God is in heaven. He calls FROM above and says, "gather my saints together UNTO ME".

Gee, what, oh what, could that possibly be saying?

He is speaking of Israel. He has been gathering Israel/Saints together UNTO HIM for 2000 years now. (refs- entire New Testament)

John 14


1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house (WHERE?) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go (WHERE?) to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus ascended into heaven, did he not? He said he was GOING there to prepare a place for us. He said he'd come again and receive us to Him.

Which He did in Acts chapter 2.

And just where, oh where, do you think the church, who has washed in the blood of the Lamb, is in this passage as it stands before the throne of God and the Lamb, with the angels and the four beasts?

Heaven is not a "place". It is a state of covenant relationship.
We are in Heaven now in this relationship. (Eph 1:3, 20, 2:6)
Jesus was "in Heaven" while walking on the earth;

(Joh 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

We are this family, even Now;

(Eph 3:15) Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Our Master is in Heaven;

(Col 4:1) Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

We being with Him and Him with us this very moment unto forever;

(Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Our "conversation" is "in Heaven". (which means we speak of where we are)

(Php 3:20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:


Revelation 7:

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


And look at this one. In this passage, the church, who has overcome by the blood of the Lamb, is said to be DWELLING IN HEAVEN! Gee, when do we get there?

WE ARE THERE as you can see from the scriptures above. This is Good News! If one is worthy of it

I have overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and He is with me, in Heaven forever. This body doesn't prevent the Word of God being fulfilled in us NOW.

(Rom 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

You want more? I've got more.

I've got lot more too

Try not to get carried away with the symbolism of Revelations though. Start with plain and clear scripture if you want to show forth wisdom

 

[LovedofHim]

I've got lot more too

Try not to get carried away with the symbolism of Revelations though. Start with plain and clear scripture if you want to show forth wisdom

Your post reminds me of replacement theology. They couldn't understand why there were a ton of prophecies that speak of Israel in the last days so they just replaced Israel with the church.

In the same manner, you don't like the idea of there being a heavenly abode where the church will dwell during the wrath of God so you just substitute earth for heaven.

 

[Heavens]

Your post reminds me of replacement theology. They couldn't understand why there were a ton of prophecies that speak of Israel in the last days so they just replaced Israel with the church.

In the same manner, you don't like the idea of there being a heavenly abode where the church will dwell during the wrath of God so you just substitute earth for heaven.

Who is "they"?

I don't know what "replacement theology" is. I do know what the 180 year old "dispensational theology" is that came from Margaret McDonald of Glasgow Scotland is though. It attempts to replace the Israel Church Newly Married Bride of Christ with a doctrine of "futurism" saying that the prophecies were NOT fulfilled. Those are doctrines of devils. The doctrines of "futurism".

Name just one unfulfilled O.T. prophecy lovedofhim. I'll show you, or any number of other folks can show you in scripture where it is fulfilled in the New Testament in Christ and His New Jerusalem Wife who has been producing children of God for 2000 years now.

Nothing of what I share has anything to do with "what I like". Although I do Love Jesus and His Word. I am a true Berean in proving all things and holding fast that which is good and rebuking the false doctrines introduced by the wolves in sheep clothing.

So yes, the OP is 100% correct here.
Praise Jesus!