The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

[Gary K]

You and GK have already proven yourselves hypocrites.






Ah, but of course you can spiritualize whatever you wish when it suits your paradigm: thus you jump between carnal and spiritual whenever you are not able to understand what you read, having one foot in spiritual things and the other foot in natural and carnal things so that you can abolish the portions of the Torah-Word of Elohim which you choose to deem as "ceremonial law".

Even the Catholics apparently know that John 6:28-71 must somehow be accounted for in their doctrine, and thus their teaching of transubstantiation, and yet you do not believe their doctrine and the SDA teaching actually claims they are antichrist for changing the Shabbat to Sunday. So what do you do with that passage? You spiritualize it away and do nothing, rather than truly understand what is being taught therein from the Torah: for if you understood the teaching therein, which is indeed from the Torah, you would not be believing the things you say you believe herein.

John 6:53-58 KJV
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The words above are not going to pass away, (Mat 24:35, Mrk 13:31, Luk 21:33), so you might want to let that sink in. And spiritual does not mean spiritualized away or nullified into meaninglessness. Moreover spiritualize is not even a word, so you justify me in responding that your opposing view is to carnalize everything into the things of below, of the flesh, and all the things that be of men which carnal minded men savor.

Yep, you say I spiritualize, and I say you carnalize, and neither of these are even legitimate words: but whose view of the scripture is closer to what is actually taught in the scripture, dear carnalizer?

Genesis 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

John 1: 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1: 35 ¶ Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Revelation 7: 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 15: 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 19: 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

[daq]

Genesis 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

The scripture says that the Gospel was preached to Abraham, (Gal 3:7-9), and yet no doubt you believe Abraham offered slaughtered animals drained of their blood and butchered into portions unto the Living Elohim who is Spirit.

The scripture also says that the Gospel was preached to Yisrael, but that it was not mixed with faith/belief in those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, (Heb 4:1-3 and surrounding context), which proves that simply believing what you want to believe, or what some translation or other teacher tells you to believe about the Torah, is not the same as actually believing the Torah: one cannot believe what his natural mind cannot hear, which in the scripture means to hear with intelligence: to understand.

If the Gospel was preached to both Abraham and to those who did not believe it, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, then how say you that the sacrifices in the Torah are carnal and physical animal sacrifices against all of the scripture evidence in the Prophets, the Writings, the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, and the Brit Hadashah Writings of his Apostles? How is it that you can neither perceive nor understand nor believe that the Brit Hadashah Writings are expounding the Torah, Prophets, and Writings of the Hebrew scriptures?

 

[HIM]

 

[daq]

It appears daq is out to destroy faith in Jesus and His sacrifice.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Gary K]

The scripture says that the Gospel was preached to Abraham, (Gal 3:7-9), and yet no doubt you believe Abraham offered slaughtered animals drained of their blood and butchered into portions unto the Living Elohim who is Spirit.

The scripture also says that the Gospel was preached to Yisrael, but that it was not mixed with faith/belief in those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, (Heb 4:1-3 and surrounding context), which proves that simply believing what you want to believe, or what some translation or other teacher tells you to believe about the Torah, is not the same as actually believing the Torah: one cannot believe what his natural mind cannot hear, which in the scripture means to hear with intelligence: to understand.

If the Gospel was preached to both Abraham and to those who did not believe it, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, then how say you that the sacrifices in the Torah are carnal and physical animal sacrifices against all of the scripture evidence in the Prophets, the Writings, the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, and the Brit Hadashah Writings of his Apostles? How is it that you can neither perceive nor understand nor believe that the Brit Hadashah Writings are expounding the Torah, Prophets, and Writings of the Hebrew scriptures?

I like how you ignored all the scripture I gave you from Revelation. There's even more from Revelation.

 

[daq]

I like how you ignored all the scripture I gave you from Revelation. There's even more from Revelation.

I have no problem with any of them because they are clearly spiritual things and I believe them. You still do not understand: I view the Torah, Prophets, and Writings through the lenses of the teachings of the Meshiah and his Apostles. Why would I disbelieve any of those passage you quoted? The question is why do you and SDA's read the Torah according to the natural minded interpretations of the Pharisees and switch back and forth between spiritual and physical when so many times you have no justification in the text to do so? Why do you and SDA's add your own stipulations to Exodus 20:13 and not rather just believe what it says? Why do you and SDA's not believe Paul when he says that the Torah is spiritual without any stipulations? Why do you and SDA's need to decide when Paul is right about that and when he is wrong? I was also going to ask why SDA's, in my experience here, are the most vicious posters on this board, but I think such questions and the fact that I ask them answers my own question.

 

[daq]

I like how you ignored all the scripture I gave you from Revelation. There's even more from Revelation.

Genesis 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

John 1: 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1: 35 ¶ Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Revelation 7: 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 15: 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 19: 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

From your post quoted above:

John 1: 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

---------------------------------

That says Amnos:

John 1:29 T/R (KJV)
29 τη επαυριον βλεπει ο ιωαννης τον ιησουν ερχομενον προς αυτον και λεγει ιδε ο αμνος του θεου ο αιρων την αμαρτιαν του κοσμου

---------------------------------

John 1: 35 ¶ Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

---------------------------------

That also says Amnos:

John 1:35 T/R (KJV)
36 και εμβλεψας τω ιησου περιπατουντι λεγει ιδε ο αμνος του θεου

---------------------------------

Revelation 7: 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

---------------------------------

That says Arnion:

Revelation 7:10 T/R (KJV)
10 και κραζοντες φωνη μεγαλη λεγοντες η σωτηρια τω καθημενω επι του θρονου του θεου ημων και τω αρνιω

---------------------------------

Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

---------------------------------

That also says Arnion.

---------------------------------

Revelation 15: 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

---------------------------------

That also says Arnion.

---------------------------------

Revelation 19: 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That also says Arnion, and here is what follows in the passage:

Revelation 19:9-16 KJV
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word [Logos] of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

John 12:47-50 KJV
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word [Logos] that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-21].
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Now therefore why do you preach against the Logos of the Master and teach that the sacrificial commandments according to your unauthorized category of "ceremonial law" are done away with when you and SB have been shown the following Logos from the Master himself right here in this thread?

This has been over a number of times.
Here is the most recent time, with reddogs, one of your fellow SDA's.

The Master in the Mark 9 passage even quotes from one of the SDA favorite passages, Isaiah 66:22-24, (but as anyone may see, by the amount of times this is quoted by SDA's, they really only like to quote Isa 66:23 alone, so as to make only one point about the Shabbat, and pretty much ignore the surrounding context). To ignore the teaching in what the Master says in the Mark 9 passage, and the passages which he quotes from to make the point, (Isaiah 66:24 and Leviticus 2:13), is to do so in disregard to the Testimony of the Master in favor of ones own preferred biases and beliefs.

Here is the above post outside the quote box so that you can quote it in your response if you wish:

The Master refers the hearer and reader to the so-called "ceremonial law" in the following passage:

Mark 9:43-49 KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [Lev 2:13]

Leviticus 2:13 is the only place in the Torah where the command to salt every sacrifice is given.

Leviticus 2:13 KJV
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

Mark 9:49 KJV
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [Lev 2:13]

That does not sound to me like it will ever be done away with because it does not mean what most people think, according to the Testimony of the Master in Mark 9, and we know that he says that the heavens and the earth shall pass away, but his words shall not pass away, (Mat 24:35, Mrk 13:31, Luk 21:33).

Moreover the Mark 9:43-49 passage not only quotes from Lev 2:13, but also from Isa 66:24, to expound and explain the meaning of the Isaiah 66:22-24 passage. Therefore, once one understands the teaching of the Master in this regard, if he or she then still desires to enter into the new heavens and the new earth foretold in that passage, (Isa 66:22-24), then it is long past time to begin plucking, chopping, cutting off limbs, and salting those sacrifices according to the commandment of the Master in Mark 9 and the commandment in Leviticus 2:13 to salt every sacrifice. Those therefore who believe the sacrifices are the innocent living souls and clean animals of the creation of Elohim do not understand and are still following the Pharisee way of seeing those things as outward, carnal, natural, and physical in meaning. Cutting off sin from your members and mortifying the deeds of the body and your members upon the earth is not "ceremonial law".

Again, the Master refers the hearer and reader to the so-called "ceremonial law" in the following passage:

Mark 9:43-49 KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [Isa 66:24]
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [Lev 2:13]

Leviticus 2:13 is the only place in the Torah where the command to salt every sacrifice is given.
There is no other place you will find this commandment to salt every offering or sacrifice.

Leviticus 2:13 KJV
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

Mark 9:49 KJV
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. [Lev 2:13]

John 12:48-49
48 The one rejecting me, and receiving not my words, has one who judges him: the Logos-Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-21].
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Yes, I do believe all of those passages you quoted.

 

[Gary K]

I have no problem with any of them because they are clearly spiritual things and I believe them. You still do not understand: I view the Torah, Prophets, and Writings through the lenses of the teachings of the Meshiah and his Apostles. Why would I disbelieve any of those passage you quoted? The question is why do you and SDA's read the Torah according to the natural minded interpretations of the Pharisees and switch back and forth between spiritual and physical when so many times you have no justification in the text to do so? Why do you and SDA's add your own stipulations to Exodus 20:13 and not rather just believe what it says? Why do you and SDA's not believe Paul when he says that the Torah is spiritual without any stipulations? Why do you and SDA's need to decide when Paul is right about that and when he is wrong? I was also going to ask why SDA's, in my experience here, are the most vicious posters on this board, but I think such questions and the fact that I ask them answers my own question.

OK.. Think what you wish. I'd get a warning for goading if I said what I really think about your beliefs and tactics.

 

[daq]

OK.. Think what you wish. I'd get a warning for goading if I said what I really think about your beliefs and tactics.

The passages I quoted are not my words and yet my beliefs are according to those passages and what they teach. So, just as SB's accusation, what you "really think" about my beliefs is ultimately not only against me, but against the One whose Logos-Word I believe. Try as you may, but you will not separate me from the Logos of Elohim because he dwells within me.

 

[Gary K]

The passages I quoted are not my words and yet my beliefs are according to those passages and what they teach. So, just as SB's accusation, what you "really think" about my beliefs is ultimately not only against me, but against the One whose Logos-Word I believe. Try as you may, but you will not separate me from the Logos of Elohim because he dwells within me.

You want to call God the author of sin? Have at it, but I don't recommend it. There is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end thereof is death.

 

[daq]

You want to call God the author of sin? Have at it, but I don't recommend it. There is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end thereof is death.

Your renewed accusation is empty and false. And in reality it is exactly the opposite according to the Mark 9 passage that has been quoted multiple times to explain what I believe. The Master expounds the sacrifices in that passage and you and SB simply choose not to believe his teaching therein. Moreover the LXX version of the Isaiah passage verifies precisely what he is speaking about in the Mark 9 passage.

Isaiah 66:24 OG LXX
24 και εξελευσονται και οψονται τα κωλα των ανθρωπων των παραβεβηκοτων εν εμοι ο γαρ σκωληξ αυτων ου τελευτησει και το πυρ αυτων ου σβεσθησεται και εσονται εις ορασιν παση σαρκι

κωλα = κωλον = a limb of the body, as if chopped or lopped off (re: Mark 9:43-50).

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G2966 κῶλον kolon (kō'-lon) n.
a limb of the body (as if lopped).
[from the base of G2849]

The Master therefore interprets for us this passage from the Prophet by referring the hearer to the commandment to salt every sacrifice in Leviticus 2:13, proving that he teaches a spiritual and supernal application to the sacrifices, which you and SB choose not to believe, and which you and SB therefore accuse me of "spiritualizing away" your belief in literal-physical animal slaughtering sacrifices in what you claim to be "the ceremonial law" so that you can set it all aside, when in reality it is not even my teaching. So again, ultimately, it isn't only me that you are accusing of what you accuse: you are accusing the Meshiah of the same thing you accuse me of doing, for I merely showed you what he says because I believe it and apply it in all of my understanding of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your renewed accusation is empty and false. And in reality it is exactly the opposite according to the Mark 9 passage that has been quoted multiple times to explain what I believe. The Master expounds the sacrifices in that passage and you and SB simply choose not to believe his teaching therein. Moreover the LXX version of the Isaiah passage verifies precisely what he is speaking about in the Mark 9 passage.

Isaiah 66:24 OG LXX
24 και εξελευσονται και οψονται τα κωλα των ανθρωπων των παραβεβηκοτων εν εμοι ο γαρ σκωληξ αυτων ου τελευτησει και το πυρ αυτων ου σβεσθησεται και εσονται εις ορασιν παση σαρκι

κωλα = κωλον = a limb of the body, as if chopped or lopped off (re: Mark 9:43-50).

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G2966 κῶλον kolon (kō'-lon) n.
a limb of the body (as if lopped).
[from the base of G2849]

The Master therefore interprets for us this passage from the Prophet by referring the hearer to the commandment to salt every sacrifice in Leviticus 2:13, proving that he teaches a spiritual and supernal application to the sacrifices, which you and SB choose not to believe, and which you and SB therefore accuse me of "spiritualizing away" your belief in literal-physical animal slaughtering sacrifices in what you claim to be "the ceremonial law" so that you can set it all aside, when in reality it is not even my teaching. So again, ultimately, it isn't only me that you are accusing of what you accuse: you are accusing the Meshiah of the same thing you accuse me of doing, for I merely showed you what he says because I believe it and apply it in all of my understanding of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings.

I believe God’s law is spiritual, the way Jesus explained it Mat 5:19-30 something close in our hearts, not re-interpreting to my own idea of what that means, which really disregards so much plain scripture. Since Jesus sacrificed Himself -do you consider that murder or was that spiritual too?

 

[Gary K]

Your renewed accusation is empty and false. And in reality it is exactly the opposite according to the Mark 9 passage that has been quoted multiple times to explain what I believe. The Master expounds the sacrifices in that passage and you and SB simply choose not to believe his teaching therein. Moreover the LXX version of the Isaiah passage verifies precisely what he is speaking about in the Mark 9 passage.

Isaiah 66:24 OG LXX
24 και εξελευσονται και οψονται τα κωλα των ανθρωπων των παραβεβηκοτων εν εμοι ο γαρ σκωληξ αυτων ου τελευτησει και το πυρ αυτων ου σβεσθησεται και εσονται εις ορασιν παση σαρκι

κωλα = κωλον = a limb of the body, as if chopped or lopped off (re: Mark 9:43-50).

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
G2966 κῶλον kolon (kō'-lon) n.
a limb of the body (as if lopped).
[from the base of G2849]

The Master therefore interprets for us this passage from the Prophet by referring the hearer to the commandment to salt every sacrifice in Leviticus 2:13, proving that he teaches a spiritual and supernal application to the sacrifices, which you and SB choose not to believe, and which you and SB therefore accuse me of "spiritualizing away" your belief in literal-physical animal slaughtering sacrifices in what you claim to be "the ceremonial law" so that you can set it all aside, when in reality it is not even my teaching. So again, ultimately, it isn't only me that you are accusing of what you accuse: you are accusing the Meshiah of the same thing you accuse me of doing, for I merely showed you what he says because I believe it and apply it in all of my understanding of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings.

Bye. I have nothing further to say to you on this subject.

 

[daq]

I believe God’s law is spiritual, the way Jesus explained it Mat 5:19-30 something close in our hearts, not re-interpreting to my own idea of what that means, which really disregards so much plain scripture. Since Jesus sacrificed Himself -do you consider that murder or was that spiritual too?

As you also said previously: we do not understand the scripture in the same way. Do you suppose it was not murder for the rulers of the people to hand him over to Pilate to be crucified? Who says that laying down your soul means what you say it means according to the flesh? Did he know they would crucify him? Yes, of course, but that does not mean the Father approved their murdering of the Meshiah. Deny yourself, take up your stake, lay down your own soul, and follow him, and see whether or not that means physical death.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As you also said previously: we do not understand the scripture in the same way. Do you suppose it was not murder for the rulers of the people to hand him over to Pilate to be crucified? Who says that laying down your soul means what you say it means according to the flesh? Did he know they would crucify him? Yes, of course, but that does not mean the Father approved their murdering of the Meshiah. Deny yourself, take up your stake, lay down your own soul, and follow him, and see whether or not that means physical death

Well you’re conflating two different things. There is no scripture that says we literally need to take our life to be in Christ. It says we need to die of self (sin) not literal. That said, it could be literal if its a choice of obeying God or obeying government if the government prevents us from obeying God like Daniel who refused to stop worshipping God which came with a death sentence and I believe something similar will happen once again in the future. However, the OT sacrifices were very literal, the scriptures are filled with detailed literal account of animal sacrifices for sin until the Seed should come. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

WOAH!!

We are not all at the same place in our understanding of Yah's word, nor our walks with Messiah.

However as Brothers and Sisters in Messiah we are to edify (build up) each other, not tear each other down.

Y'all need to CHILL!

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[reddogs]

The scripture says that the Gospel was preached to Abraham, (Gal 3:7-9), and yet no doubt you believe Abraham offered slaughtered animals drained of their blood and butchered into portions unto the Living Elohim who is Spirit.

The scripture also says that the Gospel was preached to Yisrael, but that it was not mixed with faith/belief in those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, (Heb 4:1-3 and surrounding context), which proves that simply believing what you want to believe, or what some translation or other teacher tells you to believe about the Torah, is not the same as actually believing the Torah: one cannot believe what his natural mind cannot hear, which in the scripture means to hear with intelligence: to understand.

If the Gospel was preached to both Abraham and to those who did not believe it, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness, then how say you that the sacrifices in the Torah are carnal and physical animal sacrifices against all of the scripture evidence in the Prophets, the Writings, the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, and the Brit Hadashah Writings of his Apostles? How is it that you can neither perceive nor understand nor believe that the Brit Hadashah Writings are expounding the Torah, Prophets, and Writings of the Hebrew scriptures?

Need to be careful what you pick up these days as we know what is coming...
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[daq]

Need to be careful what you pick up these days as we know what is coming...
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The scripture also says the following.

1 Corinthians 10:11 KJV
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1 Corinthians 10:11 ASV
11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Therefore it may only be properly understood one way without violating the logos-reasoning of the scripture: it is to each in his or her own appointed times, the appointed times of the Father, and is not some sort of one-time-only dispensationist minded future event that passes away after it has happened on a global world stage. If you think we are in the "end times" now, but that the Corinthians were not when the above was written to them, then you would be mistaken in your theological position on that.

So then, in the scripture you have quoted, Paul is warning both Timothy and the reader concerning the latter end of the first "age" of a man, (which consists of four generations according to the Torah, Prophets, Writings, and Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts).

The kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20-21), but if anyone does not believe this then how shall they know the signs when they happen? for they are looking and watching for events to occur outside themselves and their walk, such as watching TV or internet news, and global events, while the enemy is stealthily invading as they watch those things, being decieved. If you think you are going to watch the Apocalypse on TV and internet news sources, you may end up being misled by those things: the end of your age and the Apocalypse will not be televised.

 

[Jan001]

..or the first day (or 'eight day' as some try to call it).

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, not Moses' sabbath, or the Jews sabbath, or anyone Else's sabbath.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

We see the same.

Deuteronomy 5:12-13
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Again the same.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

It was not 'Moses' sabbath.

Leviticus 19:1-2
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy. 3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Isaiah 56:4-6
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Ezekiel 20:12-13
12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

Ezek 20:19-24
19I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. 23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

Ezekiel 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Ezekiel 23:38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

The Lord claims the sabbath as His very own. It is a day, therefore it is literally, the Lord's day. This clear so how many times must the Lord call the sabbath His day to understand that there is only one day in the scriptures that would be referred to as the Lord's day? Other than the seventh day sabbath, the Lord's day can also refer to the day on which He will return to this earth. That is all. Sunday, or the first day of the week is never referred to as the Lord's day in the scriptures.

This title was only applied to Sunday later on, to cover their deception. It was applied by those who began the apostasy and abomination which was the result of the amalgamation of apostate Christianity and pagan sun worship.

The Sabbath was given only to the Israelites/Jews and to the converts to Judaism.

Exodus 31:13 “Say to the people of Israel, ‘You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.

However, in the new covenant, there is no distinction between the Jew or Gentile converts to Christianity. And we know that the Gentiles did not convert to Judaism when they became Christians. Therefore the Gentiles were under no obligation to keep the sabbaths of the Jews.

Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him.

New covenant means new law. Jesus did not command any person under His new covenant to keep the Sabbath. He actually broke the Sabbath and claimed that He was Lord of the Sabbath. Matthew 12:8

Jesus changed the priesthood. Jesus changed the law. He did not keep the Sabbath. One of the reasons He was crucified was because He did not keep the Sabbath. John 9:16

Hebrews 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

The apostles, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, did not continue the Jewish Sabbath requirements for Christians. John 16:13
Pertaining to the Law of Moses, the apostles mandated only the following for Gentile Christians:

Acts 21:25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity.”

The early Christians gathered together to worship God on the first day (Sunday) of every week. They did not meet together for Christian worship on Saturdays. We can see this in the following teaching of the apostles:

Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation by Roberts-Donaldson)​

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

 

[Jan001]

Notice..."Some have assumed that the Lord’s day is the New Testament equivalent of the Sabbath. "What is the Lord’s day? | GotQuestions.org. Then they go on to what is an outright lie..."Sunday was the day that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, an act that forever separated Christianity from any other religion", as scripture is clear the Sabbath continued as we see that Paul kept the Sabbath.

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2. "Paul and his company ... went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." Acts 13:13, 14. "And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:13. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

Paul went to the synagogues on the sabbath to preach to the people who were there. These Greeks in the synagogues were converts to Judaism. Jews did not fellowship with any person who was not practicing Judaism.

Acts 17:1-5 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. 5 But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the people.


Under the Law of Moses, God forbade the uncircumcised from entering into His sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:9 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, shall enter my sanctuary.


Pagans and Samaritans did not fellowship with Jews.

Genesis 43:32 They served him by himself, and them by themselves, and the Egyptians who ate with him by themselves, because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews, for that is an abomination to the Egyptians.

John 4:9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

The Jews did not fellowship with sinners and tax collectors.

Mark 2:16 And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

The Jews accused Peter of eating with the Gentiles. That was forbidden under the Law of Moses.

Acts 11:2-3 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party criticized him, 3 saying, “Why did you go to uncircumcised men and eat with them?”

Many Jews who converted to Christianity still kept the Sabbath until they were prevented from entering them due to their belief in Jesus Christ. However, these Jewish converts to Christianity were required to keep the Lord's Day on the first day of the week.