The mistranslation into the English of the act of Faith that saves ...

[Charis kai Dunamis]

I believe the English "entrust" is a good translation of the verb.

 

[watchman 2]

I believe the English "entrust" is a good translation of the verb.

Entrust what?

 

[watchman 2]

I believe the English "entrust" is a good translation of the verb.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

I do hundreds if not thousands of acts of Faithing or pisteuo , (what most understand as "believing) every day. I entrust myself , when i act on a "belief" , sustained by confidense . What specific act, based upon a belief, sustained by trust , do you do to Faithe or pisteuo into Christ ?

I entrust myself to His active and passive obedience. This is the act in which justification is merited - upon the empty vessel of faith which beholds the finished work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

While agree with you that faith (or πίστις/πιστεύω) is a particularly complex and multifaceted term (take the reformers' elucidation of notitia, assensus and fiducia for example), your idea that the word is incapable of handling the meaning is somewhat discredited by the usage in James 2:19. πιστεύω is an act performed by the demons, and therefore clearly only refers to belief and not a faith that entrusts. Hence we have the same word used to refer to mere belief, and yet the clear message is that belief is not enough. Therefore the english conundrum of not having a worthy translation is rendered moot, since greek obviously had the same sort of problem. It is the concept behind the term that is important, and the context in which it is used. There is theologically-rich meaning there even in our English language. There is no conspiracy to hide the meaning.

 

[EmSw]

Where in two different universes EmSw. Good luck with trying to be the kind of obedience God requires.

If you at some point in your life you realize you can't be obedient like God requires , surrender your life to Jesus , and He will be the kind of obedience God requires "for you." And the best part , if you continue to surrender your life to Him on a daily basis , he'll accept you even if your a guilty sinner.

Basic stuff here EmSw.

So you are telling me to quit being obedient. Watchman, obedience is obedience.

Did you know obedience is submission? You want me to be disobedient and submit to Jesus.

This stuff is basic confusion.

 

[EmSw]

I believe the English "entrust" is a good translation of the verb.

Faithfulness is a good translation also.

 

[EmSw]

I do hundreds if not thousands of acts of Faithing or pisteuo , (what most understand as "believing) every day. I entrust myself , when i act on a "belief" , sustained by confidense . What specific act, based upon a belief, sustained by trust , do you do to Faithe or pisteuo into Christ ?

Obey His word.

 

[samir]

This Greek word "pisteuo" is a verb, and action word. Defined, but not specifically, it is an act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidense. We all perform thousands of acts of "faithing" all day every day. But those acts of Faithing do not fulfill the specific act of "saving NT faith"...

Strongs : "Pisteuo means not just to believe , but to place confidense in, to trust, reliance upon , not mere credence, hence it is translated , commit unto , commit to ones trust , be committed unto."...

True NT saving Faith is a continual daily surrendering of our lives to God , and making the many little decisions through out the day , supporting that surrender.

The fact that the English did not have a word in it's dictionary to communicate the most important word in the Scriptures is just mind boggling. The words they chose to translate "pisteuo" are believe, believer, and believing. Although those words are a part of what the act of pisteuo is, taken alone will never produce a relationship with Christ.

If a person believes in Jesus and trusts in Him for salvation but is unwilling to surrender his life to God by living in obedience to His commandments is that person a "pisteuo" believer or an unbeliever?

It sounds like you're saying he isn't and doesn't have a relationship with Christ because he merely believed, placed his confidence in, trusted, and relied upon Jesus for salvation while not acting upon that belief by surrendering to God by living to please Him and obey His commandments.

That helps reconcile many passages in scripture. James 2 could be interpreted as "A person is justified by works (surrendering to God) and not by "pistis" alone while John 3:16 would mean "whoever "pisteuo" in Him might not perish but might have eternal life."

So if we're talking about "pistis" faith, a person is justified by works and not faith alone. But if we're talking about "pisteuo" faith we could say a person is justified by faith alone since the "works" of surrendering to God in obedience is included in that definition of faith.

 

[watchman 2]

I entrust myself to His active and passive obedience. This is the act in which justification is merited - upon the empty vessel of faith which beholds the finished work of Jesus Christ.

 

[watchman 2]

While agree with you that faith (or πίστις/πιστεύω) is a particularly complex and multifaceted term (take the reformers' elucidation of notitia, assensus and fiducia for example), your idea that the word is incapable of handling the meaning is somewhat discredited by the usage in James 2:19. πιστεύω is an act performed by the demons, and therefore clearly only refers to belief and not a faith that entrusts. Hence we have the same word used to refer to mere belief, and yet the clear message is that belief is not enough. Therefore the english conundrum of not having a worthy translation is rendered moot, since greek obviously had the same sort of problem. It is the concept behind the term that is important, and the context in which it is used. There is theologically-rich meaning there even in our English language. There is no conspiracy to hide the meaning.

 

[watchman 2]

If a person believes in Jesus and trusts in Him for salvation but is unwilling to surrender his life to God by living in obedience to His commandments is that person a "pisteuo" believer or an unbeliever?

 

[ToBeLoved]

This thread is about a message or communication by ancient writers that has been lost to time and history. Mostly because the English language does not have a word to communicate the Greek word "pisteuo." Did God allow this to happen? Of coarse He did ! Why did He allow this to happen should be the real conversation.

Why don't you list the verses that you say has this alternate word? There should be some scripture somewhere here to look at rather than just talking concepts, no?

 

[ToBeLoved]

This thread is about a message or communication by ancient writers that has been lost to time and history. Mostly because the English language does not have a word to communicate the Greek word "pisteuo." Did God allow this to happen? Of coarse He did ! Why did He allow this to happen should be the real conversation.

With all due respect, do you think that you are the first person in history to notice that there may be two or three words in the Greek translated to the same word in English? I'm not understanding how you make the statement "communication by ancient writers that has been lost to time and history". Many people study God's Word closely looking at the original language.

 

[watchman 2]

Why don't you list the verses that you say has this alternate word? There should be some scripture somewhere here to look at rather than just talking concepts, no?

I can do that.

 

[watchman 2]

H

 

[watchman 2]

With all due respect, do you think that you are the first person in history to notice that there may be two or three words in the Greek translated to the same word in English? I'm not understanding how you make the statement "communication by ancient writers that has been lost to time and history". Many people study God's Word closely looking at the original language.

I have 30 years of daily study with a Dr from Stanford university. He not only spoke and taught all the ancient languages , but owned himself the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind only the Vatican. He used the original ancient texts to teach from.

This isn't new, i and tens of thousands of others who have been taught by Him over the last 60 years know this as well. What i'm presenting to you is what he would teach on the first day ,basic Faith understanding.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Here's another example.


Mistranslation : John 3:18: " He that "believeth on him" is not condemned: but he that believeth not"

correct translation : John 3:18: " He that "surrenders their life to him " is not condemned: but he that "does not surrender" not"

All these verses have been fashioned to suit the mistranslation, so don't turn around and tell me the correct definition doesn't make any sense. It made perfect sense in the original writings.

This is what I see in the Interlinear Greek (see http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-18.htm and http://biblehub.com/text/john/3-18.htm)

ho pisteuōn eis auton ou krinetai ho de mē pisteuōn (you can see the rest on the link)

John 3:18: The [one] believing on him not is judged the [one] however believing already has been judged because not he has believed on the name of the only begotten Son

This is right from the Greek.

 

[samir]

That person is not faithing towards God, "pisteuo". He , in your example , would be faithing away from God , "Apisteuo".

I agree. That would mean a large number of people I know who believe and trust in Jesus for salvation are probably not saved.

If i were to continually surrender my life to God, "pisteuo", but at the same time i'm expecting something in return for that surrender , thats not true pisteuo.

Even if God promised to give you something in return? God promised to reward the righteous with eternal life. Since I trust God, I'm certainly expecting God to keep His promise and reward me for my faithfulness. I don't know how a person can have faith if he doesn't expect God to keep his promises.

Gods truths are all paradoxes , as we , not perfectly, but genuinely surrender ourselves to Him everyday , each day offering a better surrender , and without expecting anything in return for oueselves , thats true Faith "pistis" and the application of that Faithing "pisteuo".

So I can't have true faith unless I don't expect God to keep his promises? That sounds like a lack of faith to me.

Pisteuo is work . Were surrendering our self to Him daily, and making every decision as if it's not our life anymore, it's His life now.

Does surrendering yourself to God include obeying His commandments and living to please Him? For example, can I surrender myself to God by praying to Him constantly and telling everyone how much I love Him while living in adultery?

But that doesn't mean that this is a work that can replace the "finished work that Christ did on the Cross, thats the work that resulted in Grace, our work or pisteuo is the correct response to that Grace.

I fully understand nothing can replace Christ's sacrifice. Thankfully, no church has ever taught that. Would you agree with the statement "a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" if I was referring to "pistis" faith?

 

[watchman 2]

This is what I see in the Interlinear Greek (see http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-18.htm and http://biblehub.com/text/john/3-18.htm)

ho pisteuōn eis auton ou krinetai ho de mē pisteuōn (you can see the rest on the link)

John 3:18: The [one] believing on him not is judged the [one] however believing already has been judged because not he has believed on the name of the only begotten Son