The mistranslation into the English of the act of Faith that saves ...

[watchman 2]

Genuine faith is never dead; it is always active.

Tell me more EmSw. Did you know about the mistranslation of pisteuo?

 

[Job8]

The words they chose to translate "pisteuo" are believe, believer, and believing. Although those words are a part of what the act of pisteuo is, taken alone will never produce a relationship with Christ.

According to your theory, the millions of believers since Pentecost did not have saving faith and no relationship with Christ. You know as well as I do that that is complete nonsense (one could use an even stronger word). Grammar and lexicons have their place, but do not trump spiritual reality.

What you are also suggesting is that all the very accomplished translators of the past has no clue. Which is somewhat arrogant.

 

[sdowney717]

Then answer this , how does someone have Faith in someone thats not theirs? Your understanding of Faith could never start the relationship. But true pisteuo , (surrendering your life to Him) could start the relationship even when He's not ours yet. And i'll go one step further , true pisteuo could start a relationship with Christ even before His Word was i mass circulation , your understanding could not.

His love for us is what starts the relationship, not our love for God.
1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

 

[watchman 2]

According to your theory, the millions of believers since Pentecost did not have saving faith and no relationship with Christ. You know as well as I do that that is complete nonsense (one could use an even stronger word). Grammar and lexicons have their place, but do not trump spiritual reality.

What you are also suggesting is that all the very accomplished translators of the past has no clue. Which is somewhat arrogant.

 

[watchman 2]

His love for us is what starts the relationship, not our love for God.
1 John 4:19

 

[W2L]

Can you please list

Few people are aware that in the Greek texts, there are two very important uses of the word Faith.

One is the Greek word "pistis", which is where we get the English word "Faith", a noun or person place or thing. This word is used 244 times in the NT.

The second and even more important is the Greek word 'pisteuo". This word pisteuo is the verb form of the noun "pistis or Faith." The problem is, the English didn't then, and still does not now have a word in their language to translate "pisteuo" into English.

This Greek word "pisteuo" is a verb, and action word. Defined, but not specifically, it is an act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidense. We all perform thousands of acts of "faithing" all day every day. But those acts of Faithing do not fulfill the specific act of "saving NT faith".

What is the specific act of saving faith?

Well don't take my word for it, lets look at the two main Greek dictionaries.

Exact Quotes,

Strongs : "Pisteuo means not just to believe , but to place confidense in, to trust, reliance upon , not mere credence, hence it is translated , commit unto , commit to ones trust , be committed unto."

The Strongs doesn't tell us specifically what saving faith is , but does tell us what it isn't. It says that pisteuo , used 248 times in the NT, IS NOT just to believe.

The Vines on the other hand does give a specific definition of what "saving NT faith" or pisteuo is. It reads, : "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender."

True NT saving Faith is a continual daily surrendering of our lives to God , and making the many little decisions through out the day , supporting that surrender.

The fact that the English did not have a word in it's dictionary to communicate the most important word in the Scriptures is just mind boggling. The words they chose to translate "pisteuo" are believe, believer, and believing. Although those words are a part of what the act of pisteuo is, taken alone will never produce a relationship with Christ.

I'm interested to see if the context of English scripture itself can adequately translate the verb form of "faith" (pisteuo). Can you list these scriptures that use the word 'pisteuo'. Thank you.

 

[watchman 2]

According to your theory, the millions of believers since Pentecost did not have saving faith and no relationship with Christ. You know as well as I do that that is complete nonsense (one could use an even stronger word). Grammar and lexicons have their place, but do not trump spiritual reality.

What you are also suggesting is that all the very accomplished translators of the past has no clue. Which is somewhat arrogant.

 

[watchman 2]

Can you please list


I'm interested to see if the context of English scripture itself can adequately translate the verb form of "faith" (pisteuo). Can you list these scriptures that use the word 'pisteuo'. Thank you.

 

[W2L]

Sure W2L, pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT alone. The English can't adequately translate pisteuo, they needed the words Faithe, faither, and faithing to translate pisteuo. Those words are not in the English dictionary. So because the Greek word pisteuo was mistranslated by using the wrong word , the sentence would be fashioned to suit that mistranslated word.

Remember , context starts with the writters and the words they chose to use. They chose to use the verb pisteuo. Pisteuo in the Vines means " A personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender." Any time you see the words believe, believer, and believing, you could replace them with the correct definition of pisteuo and get the true message of the writer. Don't try to get context by starting with the mistranslated word.

Faith to me is always a verb and noun anyway. Its a thing that requires some kind of action, i.e. persevering, believing, giving, enduring ect...

 

[watchman 2]

Can you please list

 

[sdowney717]

Are you not reading my posts? We are drawn by the Father , drawn to do what? We are drawn to "faithe" into Him. What does that mean? We are drawn to make a decision, a decision to turn our life and will over to Him , and live a life making decisions that support that surrender. I never said anything about love for God.

uh, the relationship that you talk of here, to which I responded, is all about LOVE.
Your opinion is, our faithing in Him starts the relationship, when that is a lie.

You said this
Then answer this , how does someone have Faith in someone thats not theirs? Your understanding of Faith could never start the relationship. But true pisteuo , (surrendering your life to Him) could start the relationship even when He's not ours yet. And i'll go one step further , true pisteuo could start a relationship with Christ even before His Word was i mass circulation , your understanding could not.

 

[sdowney717]

The relationship is started by God, and is manifested toward us by Him alone, not by us, we just respond to His love for us since He makes us born of God, so then His child. And a child naturally loves it's parents..

1 John 4:9
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[W2L]

Heres an example: Mistranslation ,, John 3:16 , For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever "believes" in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

correct translation : For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever "continually surrenders their life to Him" should not perish but have everlasting life.

Notice any difference? It's the difference between being "in Christ" and not being in Christ.

Yes I see the difference. The word "believe" in that particular scripture often comes up n debate too. Most people know it means to obey Christ. However, grace is still grace, and Gods mercy is new every morning (lamentations 3:23), so we need never give up hope or trying, no matter our failure

 

[sdowney717]

Christ has a relationship with His sheep before He calls them.
For example John 10.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

And of course this, even Jesus plainly telling people spiritual truth, they do not believe, because they are not His sheep.

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Again the sheep are His sheep before they hear His voice. And not all people are His sheep. that they are His sheep before they hear His voice, proves God has foreknown them intimately in His great love for them as followers of Christ, so they are of course predestined to be glorified.
In that He says, 'my sheep hear my voice', 'I know them', And 'they follow me'

 

[watchman 2]

Yes I see the difference. The word "believe" in that particular scripture often comes up n debate too. Most people know it means to obey Christ. However, grace is still grace, and Gods mercy is new every morning (lamentations 3:23), so we need never give up hope or trying, no matter our failure

 

[watchman 2]

The relationship is started by God, and is manifested toward us by Him alone, not by us, we just respond to His love for us since He makes us born of God, so then His child. And a child naturally loves it's parents..

1 John 4:9
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

I'l leave you alone in your world, because your not reading anything i'm presenting.

 

[W2L]

Get the picture?

I suppose.

 

[W2L]

For me, believing in Christ, or having faith in him, means to obey him. Why wouldn't we obey him?

 

[watchman 2]

uh, the relationship that you talk of here, to which I responded, is all about LOVE.
Your opinion is, our faithing in Him starts the relationship, when that is a lie.

You said this
Then answer this , how does someone have Faith in someone thats not theirs? Your understanding of Faith could never start the relationship. But true pisteuo , (surrendering your life to Him) could start the relationship even when He's not ours yet. And i'll go one step further , true pisteuo could start a relationship with Christ even before His Word was i mass circulation , your understanding could not.

 

[watchman 2]

I suppose.