The book of Revelation

[Bar Melek]

The Edomites are prophesied to rebuild the waste places and seize both the lands of Israel and Edom for themselves in the end times. Read Malachi 1, Obadiah, Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 35. Mount Seir is the mountain of Edom (as Zion is the mountain of Israel). Idumea is Latin for Edom. Bozrah was the capital city of Edom.

 

[PhillipLaSpino]

Bar-Melak wrote, "The modern nation of Israel is an anti-christ nation built on deceit and fraud. It is a counterfeit. Most modern Jews are not descended from Biblical Israelites. All this Judeo-Christian, Christian Zionist mumbo-jumbo we were taught in churches and by so-called Christian radio and television programs are all lies straight from the pit of hell."

Phil replies, "Wow, strong words!!!! Let's play with a few verses, tell me what you think they mean.

Deut.30:4-5. A prophecy for the Jews, "If any of thine = (the Jews) be driven out ... from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will He fetch thee: And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed = (Israel), and thou shalt possess it; and He will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."

Ez.37:21-28, "Thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen = (nations) whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: I will make them one nation --- they all shall have one shepherd = (Jesus) they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes,-----I = (God) will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant --- And the nations shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Note the phrase, "I will" implies to determine, to decide that something shall be done and implying that He, God has the power to carry out His purspose;

also note the word "shall," in the second and third persons "shall" implies a promise, command, or determination giving to these verses the force of a promise in the person uttering them, that person being God.

The implication of the Biltmore resolution in 1942 jump-started the return of the Jews to their land. After the war, Jews' began a return to the land from every corner of the world. In 1948, they became a recognized country, calling themselves Israel.

Isa.11:10-16, God, "Shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, ---- and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Amos 9:14-15, "I = (God) will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; --- And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

No history of any people or nation can compare with the calamities, the hardships and miseries which have come upon this people. Calamities falling upon their heads like great hail stones. Two thousand years have past since Christ's death, and the persecutions continue. They have suffered wars, murder, genocide and every terror know to mankind.

You say they don't exist, but how funny is it than that men like Hitler, Stalin, etc. know who they are, and where to find them.

My thoughts,

Phil LaSpino

 

[Interplanner]

I don't understand bar Melek's point either, even though I don't think modern Israel is what prophecy was about. It was to be fulfilled in the resurrection as Acts 13 says. Dan 9's 'seal up' means to make final and complete, not hidden.

 

[Interplanner]

The passages Phil mentioned can be explained in terms of history before modern times, and the everlasting covenant is another name for the new covenant said to be fulfilled in Hebrews.

 

[Biblewriter]

The end time prophecies concerning Daniel's seventieth week are all about the Jews, Judah, and Jerusalem. And the ones who are currently in the land of Judea and the city of Jerusalem are the Jews.

There can be no doubt than many of these are not genetic descendants of the ancient nation of Judea. But there also can be no doubt that many of them are indeed Jews by race, and not just by religion. These are the ones the prophecies are about.

But the entire discussion about who these people are has hijacked this thread. This thread is about the Revelation, not about who the real Jews are.

If someone wants to discuss that question, he should start a new thread for the purpose. And if he wants anyone to bother to actually read what he has to say, he needs to post it in that thread. For very few of us will even bother to look up all the places we are being asked to look at.