Rich Warren & Joel Osteen preach the Daniel Diet!

[from scratch]

Not deriding, not at all. If you want to follow a diet based on OT laws, go for it. You may even be able to provide instances of people who have done this and lived for many years.

But it is not commanded in Scripture for Gentiles to do this, and following this diet won't save you. Someone could follow this very strictly, live to be 150 and still not be saved because they have rejected Jesus and what he did for them on the cross.

Abstinence from pork does not save us from our sins and will not give us eternal life or make us right with God. End of.

 

[GQ Chris]

Junk food kills. We know that for a fact now.

Nah. Eating junk food all the time while being sedentary kills.

Nothing at all wrong with eating junk food in moderation, you SDA's crack me up.

 

[GQ Chris]

Go for it but just make sure you have 911 already punched into you phone.

Nah. That's what Lipitor is for.

 

[cesty]

I really don't like the attitude I see here. If we don't agree with something someone says, we don't have to condescend him/her in order to make that point. Treat others the same way you would want them to treat you. Remember, you are representatives of Christ. Be the light that Christ has called you to be to the world. Love one another.

 

[Strong in Him]

For Jesus to have made the unclean meats clean in the NC, he would have had to have given an example in his teaching and would have eaten pork while he was with his disciples.

No he wouldn't. He was a Jew and said he had come to fulfil the Jewish law and prophets. He gave no instructions about what Gentiles should eat.

He was accused of eating with ceremonially unwashed hands, but that was a made man law of the Pharisees, that was created by them, not written in the Bible.

Yes, and after that incident he said that NOTHING that goes into a person's mouth makes them unclean because it goes into the stomach and then leaves it again. It is things which come out of the mouth and heart that make people unclean - evil thoughts, sexual immorality and so on. These are the things that contaminate a person and make them unclean.

The examples of Baptism, changing the Passover to the Last Supper, are examples of NC changes that were done before Jesus died on the cross,

Jesus did not CHANGE the Passover to the Last Supper - the last meal that Jesus celebrated with his friends WAS the Passover.
It's just that the Jewish Passover, like the law and the prophets, was, like the law and the prophets, fulfilled or completed, in Jesus. Instead of remembering when they were brought out of slavery in Egypt, the disciples were to remember JESUS each time they ate and drank. Jesus' blood was shed for the sins of the world (Matt 26:28), he was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29), and by his death he was setting them free from the slavery of sin. Paul later calls Jesus our Passover lamb who has been sacrificed for us.
The Last Supper is still essentially a Passover meal, but we remember, focus on and celebrate Jesus and not the Jewish exodus from Egypt. There are Christian Passover meals held today.

if the changes were made after they were those changes done by man, and could not be included, because the death of the Testator seals the Covenant with Blood.

The covenant, made by GOD, was that he would make it possible for us to know him, have his word in our hearts and remember our sins no more (Jer 31:31-34).
The New Covenant was not about food laws, there is nothing in it to say what Gentiles should eat. If anyone says that it IS about food laws, that is a change, or addition, done by man and is not Scriptural.

Note, the text below:

Hebrew 9:16-18

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

Jesus is alive!
God, who made the covenant, has not died and will never die.
Any human will would be revoked if the person was later found to be alive. Jesus is.

So if Jesus did make a will before his death saying that he expected Gentiles not to eat pork, (though you haven't produced any evidence for that), then in order to make that "will" legal and binding for us, he should have remained dead.

 

[Partaker of Christ]

This year, another well known mega church pastor Rick Warren, is now preaching a similar message to what Joel Osteen preached, based on the OT prophet Daniel's request to shun unclean meats while in Babylon, as recorded in the OT book of Daniel, chapter 1. Rick calls it the Daniel Plan. Note link below.

The Daniel Plan - Eat

As an SDA, I feel our church is being vindicated,

News flash:
False teachers with false doctrine, vindicate a false religion.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

News flash:
False teachers with false doctrine, vindicate a false religion.

2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False Prophets in the people, as also in ye shall be False Teachers, whoany shall be carrying in sects of destruction.
And the One buying them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203> disowning, bringing on them swift destruction.
[Jeremiah 14:14,15/Matt 24:11/Jude 1:4]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7571559-7/#post57887456
Ellen White false prophetess?

 

[Dylan Michael]

Did you not see that Rich Warren another mega church Pastor in California has seen that SDA were right? He has promoted on Dr. Oz's TV program the Daniel Diet!! Which SDAs have been promoting for over 100 years! Osteen and Warren have "seen the light", why don't you open your eyes, and walk in the light for better health?

Just because Osteen and Warren say it, doesn't make it true. I don't really listen to them anyway.

 

[Dylan Michael]

How fast does it kill? I'm older than my dad by 10 years and eat junk food all the time. Oh and my dad didn't eat junk food.

My 71 year old Grandfather is in great health and he eats quite a bit of junk food. And salt.

 

[Frogster]

it taaiiiinnt bout food..

1cor 8;8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.

 

[Hentenza]

The Baptists of all faiths should be embracing the Daniel Diet that Osteen and Warren have preached, especially in the Southern states as the obesity is epidemic in the South. There are literally millions of Southern Baptists who are very poor examples of a Christian. Can you visualize a morbidly obese Jesus gorging on fried pork chops and fried shrimp at local all you can eat buffet?

Generalize much?

The obesity problem in the US is across all states not just in the south. In fact, the problem is a global one. As less developed countries (LDC) transition to modern and technological societies their epidemiology transitions from infectious diseases being the main cause of death to non infectious diseases being the main cause of death. The main component of this change is sanitation and health care increases not eating pork and a main cause of the change is the increase in life expectancy.

My body weight is proportional and I do eat fried pork occasionally. I also eat lean pork regularly which is very good for you. In fact, historically, vegetables have accounted for a disproportionate amount of food illnesses much more than pork has been. The key is to eat a balanced diet not to abstain from kinds of foods.

Osteen is a false teacher with his prosperity gospel and lack of biblical meat in his sermons. I live in Houston and I've been to his church. Rick Warren has succumbed to the liberal side of Christianity. Their words lack biblical support.

 

[Hentenza]

Nah. That's what Lipitor is for.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

My 71 year old Grandfather is in great health and he eats quite a bit of junk food. And salt.

My dad lived to be 77 eating all of that

 

[Lysimachus]

People who preach about "The Daniel Diet" crack me up. Have they never read the text? Daniel doesn't lose weight on this forced diet. He gained weight.

The whole point of the text was that, rather than wasting away, like Nebuchadnezzar planned, God blessed them and prospered him because of his refusal to eat the pagan food.

It depends on the person's metabolism.

For example, I'm a Juvenile Type 1 diabetic, and have been since the age of 14. When I eat junk food, I lose weight, as my body does not process the foods as well. When I eat healthy vegetarian organic food, I gain weight.

I tend to be a very thin person, and have a difficult time putting on weight. But whenever I eat the healthiest meals, I put on weight.

If you are an underweight person, healthy vegetarian meals help you put on weight.

If you are an overweight person, healthy vegetarian meals help you lose weight.

It's called "body balance". It works both ways. Healthy vegetarian meals will help you body lose or gain weight depending on what your body needs.

 

[GQ Chris]

Vegetarians crack me up. The Vegetarian diet is not superior in any respect. I don't diet, and I eat healthy about 90-95% of the time, and even 14 years removed from active duty, I still log 30+ miles of running weekly then finish with sit ups and 200+ pull ups, I drink beer, spirits, wine, eat fast food sparingly. I don't know any Vegetarians/Vegans who can keep up with me physically.

 

[Lysimachus]

Nearly two thousand years ago, the Apostle Paul penned the following:

I Timothy 4:1-6

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained."

ACCORDING TO SPIRIT LED PAUL (IOW, don't anybody bother accusing me of "flaming"...I'm merely repeating what he said), there are two different camps on this issue:

1. Lying, hypocritical, conscience seared, spiritually seduced, demonic doctrine teachers who have departed from the faith and tell us to abstain from meats.

2. Good ministers of Jesus Christ who believe and know the truth and who are nourished up in the words of faith and good doctrine who put the brethren in remembrance that EVERY CREATURE of God is good and NOTHING to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

As for me, I'll stick with those who are part of the latter group and be one myself.

1 Timothy 1:1-5

“(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils”​

The context of the “latter times” is referring to some time after Paul. Compare this with Acts 20:28-30 which states: “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

After Paul died, Paganism crept into the Church (this is well established history—from all the founding fathers). All the early Church fathers that were still living after Paul’s death wrote and taught that the “man of sin”, or “antichrist power” would arise immediately after the fall of the Roman Empire (which they learned from Paul himself). The Roman Empire fell in 476 A.D. What happened during this time? The Catholic Church, the Little Horn, was growing into full prominence, and it was a religion that was “mixed” with Christianity and Paganism. Constantine was the first one to mix his empire into the two, which eventually converted slowly into Catholicism.

“(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (3) FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to ABSTAIN FROM MEATS [foods], which God hath CREATED TO BE RECEIVED WITH THANKSGIVING of them which believe and know the truth.”​

Why am I dealing with verse 2 and 3? Because they lay down the context for verses 4 and 5. This prophecy was fulfilled, primarily in the introduction of forbidding priests and nuns in the Catholic Church to marry! This is unbiblical, for priests in Old Testament times married! Paul is speaking in context of an evil power that would arise which would forbid marrying and commanding to “abstain from meats”. To be clear, the Greek word for “meats” here is “Broma”, which just means “foods” according to Strongs. Many other Bible translations, such as the NASB or NIV translate it as “foods”. You see, the word “meat” has been known in old English to be translated as just that… “food”. Example: “You still have some meat left on that peach”. So let’s reword the verse in its correct context: “commanding to abstain from foods WHICH God has created to be received with thanksgiving”. Is God talking about every food here? Or only those foods which He made “to be received with thanksgiving”? You catch the difference there in how it should be properly translated?

What Paul is really talking about here is the practice of “ASCETISM”. “Asscetii…what?” you’re probably thinking. Yes, asceticism was a practice in which during certain ceremonies and feasts, all sorts of rules and regulations were being made that forbade people to eat certain foods…even foods that are good for you! All we have to do is read some famous old commentaries on what Paul was referring to:

People’s New Testament (Commentary):

"4:3 Forbidding to marry. Not long after Paul's time the superior holiness of the unmarried life began to be preached in the church, and this resulted at last in MONASTICISM and a CELIBATE CLERGY. COMMANDING to ABSTAIN from meats. The ascetic practices which began to grow up in the church a little later extended to foods. TO EAT THE LEAST PALATABLE FOOD WHICH WOULD SUSTAIN LIFE WAS COUNTED WITH VIRTUE. These ascetics generally forbade animal food, and SOME LIVED ONLY ON BREAD AND WATER. These practices are still found among certain orders of the Latin and Eastern churches."​

Continuing in 1 Timothy 1:

“(4) For every creature OF GOD is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:”​

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:

"Verses 4 and 5. Translate as Greek, "Because" (expressing a reason resting on an objective fact; or, as here, a Scripture quotation)-"For" (a reason resting on something subjective in the writer's mind). every creature . good-(Ge 1:31; Ro 14:14, 20). A refutation by anticipation of the Gnostic opposition to creation: the seeds of which were now lurking latently in the Church. Judaism (Ac 10:11-16; 1Co 10:25, 26) was the starting-point of the error as to meats: Oriental Gnosis added new elements. The old Gnostic heresy is now almost extinct; BUT ITS REMAINS IN THE CELIBACY OF ROME'S PRIESTHOOD, AND ITS FASTS FROM ANIMAL MEATS, enjoined under the penalty of mortal sin, remain if with thanksgiving-Meats, though pure in themselves, become impure by being received with an unthankful mind (Ro 14:6; Tit 1:15)"​

This Scripture passage (verse 3) refers to meats “which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving” by His people. These meats are clean meats listed in Leviticus chapter 11 and Deuteronomy chapter 14. Verse 4 makes it clear that all creatures OF GOD are good and not to be refused, provided they are among those created to be “received with thanksgiving” (the clean animals). Only those that are "OF GOD". Verse 5 tells us why these animals (or foods) are acceptable: they are “sanctified” by God’s Word, which says they are clean, and by a “prayer” of blessing, which is offered before the meal. Please note, however, that God will destroy people who try to “sanctify themselves” while eating unclean foods (Isaiah 66:17).

You see, scriptures cannot contradict themselves. It is impossible, unless we want to purposely find occasion to doubt the Bible. So therefore, with the rule of “here a little”, and “there a little”, we are able to put together the full context and weight of inspiration, without taking certain passages and coming to false conclusions. It is impossible that Paul is giving way for any human being to eat any kind of meat they want, and I will prove it. Notice what the Lord says He will do to those who eat swine’s flesh:

“See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the LORD. “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the LORD.” (Isaiah 66:15-17).​

Therefore, “every creature of God that is good for eating” cannot be including swine, or any abominable or unclean animal. There is absolutely no way! They are not considered "FOOD".

Some may argue that this is only referring to the Old Covenant. But think again. The verse is saying that God will destroy people who eat those abominable foods at the Second Coming! It also does not say he will judge just the Jews. It says “all flesh”. Has Jesus come yet? I’m afraid not. The Second Coming is still FUTURE! This places the prophecy in the New Covenant time frame.

The prophet Isaiah here is speaking of a future prediction! Obviously Paul is not contradicting these scriptures, so therefore, it would be irresponsible to assume that Paul is speaking in the context of unclean animals which were forbidden before the Old Covenant was even in place! “Then the Lord said to Noah, … take with you seven each of every clean animal…; two each of animals that are unclean’” (Gen. 7:1,2). The Bible has ample evidence that there were clean and unclean animals from the very dawn of Creation. Noah lived long before any Jews existed, but he knew of the clean and unclean animals, because he took into the ark the clean ones by “sevens” and the unclean by “twos.” Revelation 18:2 refers to some birds as being unclean just before the second coming of Christ. The death of Christ had no altering effect whatever on these health laws, since the Bible says that all who break them will be destroyed when Jesus returns (Isaiah 66:15-17). The Jew’s stomach and digestive systems in no way differs from that of a Gentile. These health laws are for all people for all time.

Those who think that it is okay to eat pork and any abominable creature are in essence "sanctifying themselves", and are refusing the Lord to sanctify them.

 

[Lysimachus]

Threads like this make me want to go off and have a bacon sandwich.

None of my questions to Truthwave and other SDAs, from the other threads, have been answered, so he starts another one!

ALL the big Christian evangelists, writers, Pastors - even the President of the Methodist Conference - could say that abstaining from pork is a good idea for health reasons. JESUS did not say it or demand it of his Gentile followers, and none of you have produced a Scripture to the contrary. End of.

Now, where are those sausage rolls?

Why would you even want to eat pork? Or bacon?

Why?

It's GROSS!!!

IT's GROOOSS!!!! lol

It's SIIIIIIICK.

DISGUUUSSSTING.

 

[Hentenza]

Why would you even want to eat pork? Or bacon?

Why?

It's GROSS!!!

IT's GROOOSS!!!! lol

It's SIIIIIIICK.

DISGUUUSSSTING.

Why do you judge those that eat pork? There are world populations that eat bugs as a staple to their diet. I consider that gross but I don't judge them. If you don't want to eat pork then that is your choice but for the rest of us that like pork that is our choice. There is no teaching in scripture preventing Christians from eating pork.

 

[Hentenza]

<snip>

Those who think that it is okay to eat pork and any abominable creature are in essence "sanctifying themselves", and are refusing the Lord to sanctify them.

Hogwash (pun intended).

 

[Lysimachus]

cesty:

I believe that the answer to your question is found within the text itself, for we read:

"For EVERY CREATURE of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving."

Seems pretty obvious to me. Elsewhere, Paul said:

Romans 14:14

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

Again, NOTHING is unclean in and of itself. It is actually people who "esteem things to be unclean" that make them unclean in their own minds. For such, they ought not to eat, as:

Romans 14:23

"...whatsoever is not of faith is sin."



I believe that the answer to this question is found in Acts chapters 10 and 11. You know, where Peter is thrice given a vision of a great sheet full of "unclean beasts" and told by God to "Rise, kill and eat". Of course, in this account, the "unclean beasts" were SYMBOLIC of the Gentiles to whom God was now sending Peter. With this in mind, I have no problem believing that such "unclean beasts" were always meant to be SYMBOLIC of unclean people, even as certain other foods in the Old Testament were SYMBOLIC of Christ.

Alright, first off, the only proper way you can understand what Romans 14 is talking about is to compare it with 1 Corinthians 8. The "clean" and "unclean" in Romans 14 has nothing to do with the "clean" and "unclean" of the Old Testament. What it is talking about is ceremonial cleanliness or uncleanliness, not the laws of Leviticus. You see, the Jews would take liberties to eat meats that were sacrificed to idols, and would buy them in the supermarket. New Gentile converts, who had just given up their idols, where abhorred and shocked that these "stronger brothers" would dare to eat meat that had been offered to an idol. It became a "stumblingblock" to them, and it bothered them dearly.

In other words, the Gentile believed that if the meat was offered to an idol, that meat had been "spiritually defiled" (unclean). Therefore, a curse was upon it. Paul's emphasis is that pagan idols cannot defile a piece of meat, for all food is clean. All that God has made as food is clean.

Now notice 1 Cor. 8:

8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
8:7 Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.​

The issue in Romans 14 had to do with ceremonial practices concerning festival holidays of the Jews and Gentiles.

When you have some time, here is an outstanding article to read. It will answer all your questions in a simple, concise, and Biblical manner. Take out time to read it, and then pray, and continue to study. Remain open, stay faithful, search the scriptures with a prayerful heart, and the Holy Spirit will be sure to guide you into ALL truth and understanding (John 16:13).

Here it is:

Hogs-and-Other-Hazards

And after you're done with that article, the following articles, using the Bible and New Testament, will deal with various questions:

Part 1: Clean Animals:
Clean Animals and Clean Birds | Hooved Animals, Fowl, Marine Animals, Insects

Part 2: Unclean Animals:
Unclean Animals and Unclean Birds | Carnivorous Birds, Swine, Rabbit, Mammals, Reptiles, Fish

Part 3: Do The Old Testament Dietary Laws Still Apply?:
Old Testament Dietary Laws | Original Bible Diet

Part 4: Clean and Unclean In The New Testament:
New Testament Dietary Laws | Clean Animals vs. Unclean Animals

Read everything above in order, top to bottom, to get the full picture, using all of scriptures, here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept. (Isa 28:9,10).

Now continuing, let's look at 1 Corinthians 1 10:

1 Cor 10:

10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
10:20 But I [say], that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's [wealth].
10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, [that] eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
10:26 For the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience?
10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.​

As clearly seen here, the issue is pertaining to meats offered to idols.

Paul is saying... if it bothers your conscience, when you go to the market and buy meat, do not ask any questions... do not ask if it was meat that had been offered to idols. Just buy it without asking questions for your conscience sake. It bothered the Gentiles who had given up their idols.

The issue had to do with "spiritual defilement" in the consciences of those weaker gentiles who had just given up their idols. By eating meats that had been sacrificed to idols, it affected him, as he as not yet strong in this area. It brought the temptation back to him to worship the idol.

So the context of "clean" and "unclean" in these passages is not talking about the "clean" and "unclean" in Leviticus.

A Pig was unclean whether it had been offered to an idol or not. The issue of uncleanliness in these passages above are in reference exclusively that had been offered to idols. Many of these meats were sold in the market-place, and Paul is trying to let them know that if it bothers your conscience whether the meat was offered to an idol or not, do not even ask questions, and that way, when you eat the meat, you won't know.

The Levitical dietary laws most certainly are not the issues in question in neither Romans 14 or 1 Corinthians 8 and 9.

I don't care how many times one may pray over their Pork, it ain't gonna take away the trichinosis.

God expects us to use our cabesas. Otherwise, we are acting on presumption.

Those who act on presumption and blind faith will have to give an account to how they willfully went out of their way to mistreat their bodies.